Define god

Cris,

How about -

God is the cause of pain, death and destruction, e.g. earthquakes, tidal waves, lightning, volcanoes, tornadoes, hurricanes, plagues, disease, cancer, etc., etc.
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And How about -

Men's ignorance, self-centerism, greed and selfishness is the cause of pain, death, poverty, more ignorance, prejudice, weakness, stupidity, repugnancy, "immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, dissension, factions, envying, drunkness, carousing" (Galatians 6:19-21), destruction, madness, addiction, more greed, more selfcenterim, more selfishness and disgrace to himself.:bugeye:

Oh... and btw... earthquakes, tidal waves and all those natural disasters are caused by the natural system made by God, and not by Him Himself. They happen because they are there to reestabilish balance into the system. Since men screw up the planet so much, they happen much more commonly nowdays. :bugeye:
 
truthseeker,

The Men's ignorance, self-centerism, greed and selfishness is the cause of pain, death, poverty, more ignorance, prejudice, weakness, stupidity, repugnancy, "immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, dissension, factions, envying, drunkness, carousing" (Galatians 6:19-21), destruction, madness, addiction, more greed, more selfcenterim, more selfishness and disgrace to himself.
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That describes some of the things men do. But we were defining a god.

So are you saying that the creation of disease and things like cancer are the result of man's actions? I see you omitted these items from your list.

Oh... and btw... earthquakes, tidal waves and all those natural disasters are caused by the natural system made by God, and not by Him Himself.
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So when people get killed by his inventions then he is not to blame huh? If he really existed I could imagine some really hefty law suits.

They happen because they are there to reestabilish balance into the system. Since men screw up the planet so much, they happen much more commonly nowdays.
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So now it is man that can cause volcanoes to erupt and earthquakes to occur huh? Any evidence for this fantasy?
 
"How about -

God is the cause of pain, death and destruction, e.g. earthquakes, tidal waves, lightning, volcanoes, tornadoes, hurricanes, plagues, disease, cancer, etc., etc."


How about -

God is my refuge from pain, death and destruction, e.g.
earthquakes, tidal waves, lightning, volcanoes, tornadoes,
hurricanes, plagues, disease, cancer, etc., etc.
 
Cris,

That describes some of the things men do. But we were defining a god.
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I'm saying that It is not God's fault that "we" don't Love Him.

So are you saying that the creation of disease and things like cancer are the result of man's actions? I see you omitted these items from your list.
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I was waiting to talk about them after you posted (to see your comments about it). They can be a resul of man's action. For example, smoking can cause lung cancer. The bubonic plague was also man-cause. The Jews were the only ones that weren't infected since God told them to maintain their higine. Other things happen because of Satan (i.e. death, since he is death).

So when people get killed by his inventions then he is not to blame huh? If he really existed I could imagine some really hefty law suits.
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No Cris. Natural "disasters" are not bad things. They are necessary to maintain the balance of the system. For example, after a volcanoe, the ground becomes very fertilized. No one need to be killed by those things. It happens because people are separed from Him. If you are with God "no weapon shall prosper against you".

So now it is man that can cause volcanoes to erupt and earthquakes to occur huh? Any evidence for this fantasy?
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Nukes can cause earthquakes, cant they?...:rolleyes:
And man doesn't cause them directly. You know the ecologic problems of this world, don't you...? :bugeye:
 
ConsequentAtheist:

I don't think too many people would acknowledge the creator of the tootsie roll as God. What is the minimum that some being would have to prove to you that they are in order for you to acknowledge that they are God?

Cris:

I suppose that it is obvious that if God created the world then she also created those floods, earthquakes, and disease. What is the point. Are you implying that those things aren't good?
 
Mshark,

I suppose that it is obvious that if God created the world then she also created those floods, earthquakes, and disease. What is the point. Are you implying that those things aren't good?
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The issue is a definition of God. My suggestion was that if a god exists then she has chosen to create a universe where pain, suffering, and destruction are commonplace.

A nicer definition of a god would be one where a god creates a paradise and populates it with perfect beings, who are not flawed and can never do wrong.

What truthseeker is implying is that everything bad that happens is a result of man's actions. The classic negative of putting man down: This is a necessary theist position to justify the idea of salvation.

If a creator god designed and created everything and such a being cannot make any errors then the death, destruction, pain, and suffering were intended to occur. The theist claim that man has free will to make poor choices against the will of God has no validity since such a god would also have designed and created man. Since such a god can make no errors then if man then appears to make a poor choice then that must have been fully expected and intended by God. Man would just be functioning within normal design parameters. All pain and suffering etc. would have been intentional since such a God cannot make errors.

Hence the definition of a god that permits, expects, and intends for pain and suffering etc.

Is this bad? I'd kinda like an omnibenevolent god to be much nicer to me and would have created me without any flaws.
 
Cris:

The problem with making perfect beings that can do no wrong kind of takes away the "Free Will".

I am not convinced that pain and suffering are bad. I say that cautiously because I know there is terrible pain and suffering in the world, but in my life pain and suffering are important parts of the experience that is my life.

I see pain and suffering as adversaries but without them what would life be.

I guess that I would agree with you that if there exists a God then God is responsible for the pain and suffering too. I personaly don't see that as incompatible with a good God.
 
Originally posted by MShark
Cris:

The problem with making perfect beings that can do no wrong kind of takes away the "Free Will".

I am not convinced that pain and suffering are bad. I say that cautiously because I know there is terrible pain and suffering in the world, but in my life pain and suffering are important parts of the experience that is my life.

I see pain and suffering as adversaries but without them what would life be.

I guess that I would agree with you that if there exists a God then God is responsible for the pain and suffering too. I personaly don't see that as incompatible with a good God.
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GOD...is a combination of Light and Sound.the union of opposites..god would likely be female because the sound...big bang was created first..If mankind did not exist.. the notion of God through thought would not be a reality....there are so many gods on this Earth....will the real god / goddess please stand up!!!:cool:
 
Hard to comprehend a god as male or female. If there is only one god then why have a sex? To reproduce with who? Or do gods screw each other to make angels?:D
 
Originally posted by Darwin Disciple
Hard to comprehend a god as male or female. If there is only one god then why have a sex? To reproduce with who? Or do gods screw each other to make angels?:D
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God was created by thought,,thought created by sound....earthly thought of the creator being female...:cool:

Reason =male Intuition= female!:cool:
 
Originally posted by MShark
I don't think too many people would acknowledge the creator of the tootsie roll as God.
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I agree, and I would stand proudly with the majority that rejected such a definition. I nevertheless find the selectivity of you reponse noteworthy. You wrote:
  • "A minimum defintion of God could be: God created us and God is good." [emphasis added - CA]
promoting the following response:
  • "And it could also be: God created Tootsie Rolls and God is yucky." [emphasis added - CA]
You comment on the 1st part of the counterposition and purposely avoid the 2nd. Yet it's the latter that is the more diagnostic of a central problem confronted by theism - that of selection criteria. Other than claiming superior revelation, there exists no method that allows one to select:
  • God vs Gods
  • personal vs impersonal
  • invested vs uninterested
  • good vs malicious
  • honest vs dishonest
So, again: And it could also be: ... and God is yucky.
Originally posted by MShark
What is the minimum that some being would have to prove to you that they are in order for you to acknowledge that they are God?
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Earlier, I offered the following definition:
  • God ::= an intentional entity unconstrained by, and able to abrogate, natural law.
As such, the being would be required to demonstrate those atributes in a manner that can be unambiguously verified by an arbitrary observer.
 
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
  • God ::= an intentional entity unconstrained by, and able to abrogate, natural law.
As such, the being would be required to demonstrate those atributes in a manner that can be unambiguously verified by an arbitrary observer.
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Can everyone be that arbitrary observer ? Or any requirement is needed ?
 
Originally posted by Darwin Disciple
Hard to comprehend a god as male or female. If there is only one god then why have a sex? To reproduce with who? Or do gods screw each other to make angels?:D
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yeah.. don't comprehend God with any gender or form...in this way u can avoid imagining gods and angels doing such things..:)
 
ConsequentAtheist:

God ::= an intentional entity unconstrained by, and able to abrogate, natural law.

I'll buy that definition but I would not acknowledge the entity as God unless it was also good.
 
IXL777: Are you saying that if a being existed that created the universe existed that you would not call her God unless she was created as you sugested?
 
Mshark,

I'll buy that definition but I would not acknowledge the entity as God unless it was also good.
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What do you mean by good?

To an all powerful being who can create a universe on a whim and who can destroy it equally easily, presumably, then how would such a being perceive 'good'. Perhaps such a being enjoys creating beings only to see them eventually destroyed. And to this being this might be 'good'.

Or do you mean 'good' from a human perspective?

Without knowing the full scope of a god's perspective 'good' becomes an undefinable term.
 
I would take the same guy who can determine if somthing is natural or unnatural and have him deterime if God is good.

At present the good question is already answered for me. Whatever created the universe has my vote for being good. I look at the world and my place in it and I am very pleased to be alive.

Definitions are where all logic and communication breaks down. I doubt that two peoples definitions on anything have ever matched.

Communication can only take place when people try to understand each other not when they try to point out the failings of each others definitions.
 
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