Define god

consequent

i'll try and explain the first two. i will denounce the "xenobiology copes" as the work of the devil.

"there is an infinite succession of cause and effect"

[therefore] a (creator?) god cannot be postulated

The Cosmological Argument (Clarke’s version.)

1- At all times, something must have existed.

2- Either there has always existed an independent being or else there has been an infinite succession of dependent beings

3- There cannot have been an infinite succession of dependent beings

4- Therefore there has always existed an independent being


i am focusing and disputing #3

"there is no entity logically imaginable that can abrogate natural law"

i was hoping that meant that there can be no concept of god (in the conventional sense) since #3 is being disputed
 
Originally posted by firefighter
spookz,

If there were no first cause, could there ever be an effect?
Click to expand...

if you had said "if there was no cause", i would have said that there can be no effect. i do not see why a first cause (which in turn implies a last cause) has to be assumed in the first place
 
names os allah. the 99 beautiful

1. Allah
2. The Compassionate (al-Rahman)
3. The Merciful (al-Rahim)
4. The King/Sovereign (al-Malik)
5. The Holy (al-Quddus)
6. The Source of Peace (al-Salam)
7. The Giver of Faith (al-Mu'min)
8. The Overall Protector (al-Muhaimin)
9. The Strong (al-`Aziz)
10. The Almighty (al-Jabbar)
11. The Majestic (al-Mutakabbir)
12. The Creator (al-Khaliq)
13. The Maker (al-Bari')
14. The Fashioner (al-Musawwir)
15. The Great Forgiver (al-Ghaffar)
16. The Dominant (al-Qahhar)
17. The Bestower (al-Wahhab)
18. The Provider (al-Razzaq)
19. The Opener, The Reliever (al-Fattah)
20. The All-Knowing (al-`Alim)
21. The Restrainer, The Withholder (al-Qabid)
22. The Extender (al-Basit)
23. The Humbler (al-Khafid)
24. The Exalter (al-Rafi`)
25. The Empowerer (al-Mu`izz)
26. The Humiliator (al-Mudhill)
27. The All-Hearing, The Hearer (al-Sami`)
28. The All-Seeing (al-Basir)
29. The Judge (al-Hakam)
30. The Just (al-`Adl)
31. The Kindly One (al-Latif)
32. The Gracious, The Aware (al-Khabir)
33. The Clement, The Forbearing (al-Halim)
34. The Mighty (al-`Azim)
35. The Forgiving (al-Ghafur)
36. The Grateful, The Appreciative (al-Shakur)
37. The High, The Sublime (al-`Aliyy)
38. The Great (al-Kabir)
39. The Preserver (al-Hafiz)
40. The Protector, The Guardian, The Feeder, The Sustainer (al-Muqit)
41. The Reckoner (al-Hasib)
42. The Sublime One (al-Jali)
43. The Bountiful, The Gracious (al-Karim)
44. The Watcher, The Watchful (al-Raqib)
45. The Responsive, The Hearkener (al-Mujib)
46. The Infinite, The All-Embracing (al-Wasi`)
47. The Wise (al-Hakim al-Mutlaq)
48. The Loving (al-Wadud)
49. The Glorious (al-Majid)
50. The Resurrector (al-Ba`ith)
51. The Witness (al-Shahid)
52. The True (al-Haqq)
53. The Advocate (al-Wakil)
54. The Most Strong (al-Qawiyy)
55. The Firm (al-Matin)
56. The Patron (al-Waliyy)
57. The Praiseworthy (al-Hamid)
58. The Numberer (al-Muhsi)
59. The Commencer (al-Mubdi)
60. The Restorer (al-Mu`id)
61. The Giver of Life (al-Muhyi)
62. The One Who Gives Death (al-Mumit)
63. The Living One (al-Hayy)
64. The Self-Subsisting (al-Qayyum)
65. The Perceiver (al-Wajid)
66. The One (al-Wahid)
67. The Independent (al-Samad)
68. The Powerful (al-Qadir)
69. The Dominant (al-Muqtadir)
70. The Giver (al-Muqaddim)
71. The Retarder (al-Mu'akhkhir)
72. The First (al-Awwal)
73. The Last (al-Akhir)
74. The Manifest (al-Zahir)
75. The Hidden (al-Batin)
76. The Governor (al-Wali)
77. The High Exalted (al-Muta`ali)
78. The Righteous (al-Barr)
79. The Relenting (al-Tawwab)
80. The Forgiver (al-`Afuww)
81. The Avenger (al-Muntaquim)
82. The Compassionate (al-Ra'uf)
83. The Ruler of the Kingdom (Malik al-Mulk)
84. The Lord of Majesty and Bounty (Dhu'l-Jalal wa'l-Ikram)
85. The Equitable (al-Muqsit)
86. The Gatherer, The Collector (al-Jami`)
87. The Self-Sufficient (al-Ghani)
88. The Enricher (al-Mughni)
89. The Bestower (al-Mu`ti)
90. The Withholder (al-Mani`)
91. The Propitious (al-Nafi`)
92. The Distresser (al-Darr)
93. The Light (al-Nur)
94. The Guide (al-Hadi)
95. The Eternal (al-Azali)
96. The Everlasting (al-Baqi)
97. The Heir (al-Warith)
98. The Guide to the Right Path (al-Rashid)
99. The Patient (al-Sabur)
 
Re: Re: Re: Define god

Originally posted by Persol
If a being has any less then those 10 qualities you won't consider it god?
Click to expand...

That question is totally irrelevant.

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
spookz,

Cause must be assumed in the first place because:

An effect can subsequently "become" a cause. A cause cannot "become" an effect.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Define god

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
That question is totally irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Well obviously I didn't think it was irrelevant, otherwise I wouldn't have asked...

I'm not asking for what you think god is... but what the minimum number of qualities a god would have.
 
God/god/GOD is something that has been planted in our minds to keep us from the truth. G did not even exist in the original Hebrew???correct me if I am wrong, but I BELIEVE, don't quote me on it that it was INVENTED in the 1870.s or something like that. How can we BELIEVE in something that we HAVE NEVER SEEN.
 
How can we BELIEVE in something that we HAVE NEVER SEEN.
Click to expand...
Do you believe in the polar ice caps, the Titanic, and the US Civil War? Unless you are very well traveled and old the only places you have seen them are in books and recreations on tv...

But regardless, the whole point of me starting this thread is so God could be defined in order to have a somewhat productive discussion.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Define god

Originally posted by Persol
Well obviously I didn't think it was irrelevant, otherwise I wouldn't have asked...

You asked;

If a being has any less then those 10 qualities you won't consider it god?

My consideration does not come into it, those 10 qualities i cited are just a few of the innumerable qualities which God must possess to be God.
An auto mechanic must possess certain qualities to justify his position.


I'm not asking for what you think god is... but what the minimum number of qualities a god would have.

How could question be answered, in all scriptures the sum total of God is "inconcievable" or achintya.

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
Re: names os allah. the 99 beautiful

Originally posted by mohamed
1. Allah
2. The Compassionate (al-Rahman)
3. The Merciful (al-Rahim)
blabla
97. The Heir (al-Warith)
98. The Guide to the Right Path (al-Rashid)
99. The Patient (al-Sabur)
Click to expand...

you forgot
100. The killer
101. The destroyer
102. The pest
103. the hidden one
104. the coward
105. the fictional one
106. the womanizer
107. the bringer of hatred
etc.
 
Originally posted by Persol
Do you believe in the polar ice caps, the Titanic, and the US Civil War?
Click to expand...

nobody ever claimed that the polar ice caps are all powerful and created the earth. But it seems that there is more evidence for the existence of polar ice caps than of god
 
There is a big question which god we are going to define .CA definions is good in its uncertainity .As well as definitions about omnipresent , omnipotent ,omniscient being (which are better than CA's ,but still very undefined) .


All those defintion dont tell anything about how god should influence the unverse , let alone man and humanity. How the hell eternal life to humans follows from those defintions? How judgement day ,10 commandments, whatever other BS follows from your definitions?

In case to promote the faith in god you should define much more clearly how exactly "god" influences your life and what exactly you should do ,and what benefits(punishment) you will get from this entity . Else this is a moot point - Oh heck ominpresent ,eternal, blah-blah-blah... How the hell it has anything with humanity ? if its undefined how should it influence yours and my life? How the heck will it determine anything?

And the christians god is a good example of what should be defined, else we will have fluidity's "unknown-undefined-who-the-hell-cares" god.

All theists have some very clear pressupositons about their gods ("eternal love", "conscience ","soul" ,"justice"), how they influnece world ,how they manifest themselves ,etc.. etc.. and just "a intentional entity unconstrained by, and able to abrogate, natural law" is not enough .
 
And the completness of religious gods ( relatively to average human needs) is what attracts ppl to religion .You can have answer to evertyhing without knowing anything . They dont need another indifferent and completely unknown (to them) thing - they have one already ,and its called the universe.
 
What does belief have to do with the Polar Ice Caps or the Titanic. We KNOW that they existed--
God/god/GOD I know that he does not exist. Maybe you are not sure, since you said "believe" in your stream. You have to know without a doubt you can't believe, because that makes you uncertain. Would you take a flight with somebody who said I believe I can fly this plane or someone who knows??:bugeye:
 
Originally posted by MShark
A minimum defintion of God could be: God created us and God is good.
Click to expand...
And it could also be: God created Tootsie Rolls and God is yucky.

There is nothing other than baseless dogma that allows the theist to choose one over the other.
 
How about -

God is the cause of pain, death and destruction, e.g. earthquakes, tidal waves, lightning, volcanoes, tornadoes, hurricanes, plagues, disease, cancer, etc., etc.
 
Originally posted by Cris
How about -

God is the cause of pain, death and destruction, e.g. earthquakes, tidal waves, lightning, volcanoes, tornadoes, hurricanes, plagues, disease, cancer, etc., etc.
Click to expand...

Hehe.. I always thought it was:

God is the cause of that which I do not understand. I must cower before this mighty power! Thinking about it rationally is too hard! Pardon.
 
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