Death vs. Life Imprisonment

[goofyfish]

Still looking for country comparisons, but a state to state comparison within the U.S. is certainly interesting.

When comparisons are made between states with the death penalty and states without, the majority of death penalty states show murder rates higher than non-death penalty states. The average of murder rates per 100,000 population in 1999 among death penalty states was 5.5, whereas the average of murder rates among non-death penalty states was only 3.6.

Peace.

 

[Asguard]

Everyone who suports the DP should read this

http://www.acadp.com/

 

[goofyfish]

Some Stats for 1999
All done with very rough math.

Population of England and Wales: 52.7 million (source)

Murders in England and Wales - 761 (source)

Population of the United States - 274 million (source)

Murders in the United States - 15,533 (source)
Interestingly, murder rates have been declining since
1994, but they are obviously not at an all-time low.

The Population of the United States is 5.2 times that of
England and Wales. Increasing their murders rate the
same amount, would result in 3,957 murders.

Comparatively, America had a murder rate almost 4 times as high.

Peace.

 

[Asguard]

Thank u goofyfish

 

[ICARRYALOTOFBULLETS]

Last resort, check the F.B.I. for year 2000 stats

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/cius2000.htm
http://www.corsinet.com/braincandy/dying.html

Interestingly, us deranged sociopathic Americans liked to dish out
murders, robberies, and aggravated assaults in the following order:

Firearms 25.6%
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) 31.5%
knives or cutting instruments 15.0%
Other dangerous weapons 27.9%

...and on that note kiddies, I'd like you to ponder these last words of the condemned:

You are going to hurt me, please don't hurt me, just one more moment, I beg you!
Guillotined.
~~ Madame du Barry, mistress of Louis XV, d. 1793

Take a step forward, lads. It will be easier that way.
Executed by firing squad.
~~ Erskine Childers, Irish patriot, d. November 24, 1922

You sons of bitches. Give my love to Mother.
Executed in electric chair.
~~ Francis "Two Gun" Crowley, d. 1931

Remember, the death penalty is murder.
Executed by injection, Texas.
~~ Robert Drew, d. August 2, 1994

Hurrah for anarchy! This is the happiest moment of my life.
Last words on the gallows.
~~ George Engel
(He was one of four executed after the 1886 Haymarket bombing in Chicago)

I love you.
Spoken to the executioner.
Executed by injection, New York.
~~ Sean Flannagan, d. June 23, 1989

I'd like to thank my family for loving me and taking care of me. And the rest of the world can kiss my ass.
Executed by injection, Texas.
~~ Johnny Frank Garrett, Sr., d. February 11, 1992

I'd rather be fishing.
Executed in electric chair, Louisiana.
~~ Jimmy Glass, d. June 12, 1987

Good people are always so sure they're right.
Executed at San Quentin.
~~ Barbara Graham, d. June 3, 1955

I did not get my Spaghetti-O's, I got spaghetti. I want the press to know this.
Executed by injection, Oklahoma.
~~ Thomas J. Grasso, d. March 20, 1995

I am innocent, innocent, innocent. Make no mistake about this. I owe society nothing. I am an innocent man and something very wrong is taking place tonight.
Executed by injection, Texas.
~~ Lionel Herrera d. May 12, 1993

I don't hold any grudges. This is my doing. Sorry it happened.
Executed in electric chair, Indiana.
~~ Steven Judy, d. March 9, 1981

Such is Life
Executed by hanging.
~~ Ned Kelly, Australian bushranger, d. 1880

Shoot me in the chest!
To his executioners.
~~Benito Mussolini, Italian dictator, d.1945

Capital punishment: them without the capital get the punishment.
Executed in electric chair, Florida.
~~ John Spenkelink, d. May 25, 1979

 

[Asguard]

And you don't think there is anything wrong with that. I bet if u read the victoms last words they would closesly match that list. You have proved my point that there is no difference between state killing and MURDER

 

[*stRgrL*]

And I say...


Give them to God, let him sort em out

 

[Asguard]

I hope you are never acused of murder in the US rightfully or Wrongfully

By the way reading that list made me sick to my stomic
if you thought it would incorage me to change my view all it did was convice me to fight the DP to the death (No pun intended)

 

[ICARRYALOTOFBULLETS]

I hope you are never acused of murder in the US rightfully or Wrongfully

You make it sound as if our police just drive around and say, "tag, your it". I never seen that happen, nor have I ever met someone
who was wrongfully accused. I did have a friend from high school that stabbed his father to death, but he was covered in his dad's blood, holding the murder weapon, and yes, he said," I did it". So as wether he was guilty or not, I think there was no question.

By the way reading that list made me sick to my stomic

Take some medicine...

you thought it would incorage me to change my view

Why would I want to change your views. What fun is that if everyone shared my way of thinking. It's peoples different views that make conversation interesting. So there

 

[wet1]

*You make it sound as if our police just drive around and say, "tag, your it". I never seen that happen, nor have I ever met someone who was wrongfully accused.*

No, of course you didn't see that happen, or met a person who was wrongfully accused. They are dead!

I am sorry, if you are talking that kind of crap, you can get a crap answer.

Please, think, the U$ has the highest death rate in the world. As well as murderers. I am real sorry to say so. And there are mistakes made a lot of times and then it's too late to make it right again.

It is damn easy talking from your warm seat at home. What if it was your brother, father, sister or mother or who ever close to you? And it turns out that they arre falsely accused? Then again, it doesn't matter! Nobody has the right to take the life of another person! It is wrong to take a life, even if that person has done so, it's not up to other humans who are so called justified killers.

DEATH PENALTY IS WRONG!!! IN ANY CASE...

 

[ICARRYALOTOFBULLETS]

No, of course you didn't see that happen, or met a person who was wrongfully accused. They are dead!

My God, you don't say. I was wondering about all those missing person signs all over. Tell me, how many people are missing in your neighborhood.

It is damn easy talking from your warm seat at home.

What makes you think I'm anywhere close to home. My home is actually about 4000-5000 miles away.

And there are mistakes made a lot of times

So whats your suggestion for fixing our legal system.

What if it was your brother, father, sister or mother or who ever close to you?

Hmm...good question. But what if they did do it?

Please don't get hysterical, just sarcasm, nothing mean. See what six months of excruciating boredom does to you.

 

[blonde_cupid]

Bullets,

***Hmm...good question. But what if they did do it?***

Then you'd be the brother/son/close relative or friend of a murderer.

Regardless of whether they were wrongly or rightly convicted, why would you favor us murdering your relative or friend vs putting them in prison for the rest of their life?

 

[ICARRYALOTOFBULLETS]

Regardless of whether they were wrongly or rightly convicted, why would you favor us murdering your relative or friend vs putting them in prison for the rest of their life?

We'll, i quess life in prison is still execution, since their locked up till they die, right. They both equal death, huh? Sorry, I'm just not compassionate to killers, and if a family member/ friend did kill someone, I don't think I could feel too much sympathy. I don't feel sorry for my former friend. But!!! I think it should be up to the victims family to decide what the punishment is. Killing a Killer just seems right to me, sorry guys.

 

[Asguard]

Ever hear of Impartial Justice. Its not just part of the leagle system you know sports use the same system because it is build into sociaty

 

[wet1]

ICARRYALOTOFBULLETS...

*We'll, i quess life in prison is still execution, since their locked up till they die, right. They both equal death, huh?*

No, there is a significant difference in killing a person or send her/him to prison for the rest of her/his lifetime. In prison they die a natural death. Yes, there is a chance they get killed by another prisoner. I shall mention this up front, you come up with that fact anyway.

A murderer shall find it very hard to spend the rest of his/her lifetime in prison, more than being send to the death row. Guess this is a far better punishment. Justice done!

*I think it should be up to the victims family to decide what the punishment is. Killing a Killer just seems right to me, sorry guys.*

So the family has to speak their veto over the murderer? Is that justice according to now-a-days society? Then the family carries the burdon of someone being killed, because they happen to be family of the victim... Yeah, right! Chaos and anarchy!

Not that I am a fan of humans civilization, it's just not right.

Killing a killer makes you a killer!

 

[Joeblow93132]

Funny how there are only two choices: Execution and life imprisonment??

Doesn't anyone believe in rehabilitation anymore?? Do we just lock people up and throw away the key? After all aren't prisons called CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES??

It's interesting that people come out of correctional facilities worse than they came in(if they come out at all). The US is so blind with vengance that it can't even see the obvious. Revenge is so strong in the US that they're even treating kids as adults and executing mentally handicapped people!! Funny that kids are not allowed to have guns because they are irresponsible, but if someone gives a kid a gun and the kid kills someone, then suddenly they are responsible!!!

The solution is to turn prisons into correctional facilities, and for people to start using their brains a little instead of just their emotions.

Tom

 

[Merlijn]

Joeblow,
In an ideal situation (as if there were any crime then...) prisons would be correctional facilities. However-
Some, if not most, of the criminals under discussion here cannot be corrected. They're mentally ill and there is no known cure.
Untill there is they should be kept indoors (but alive!).

Merlijn

 

[Joeblow93132]

Merlijn,

Your right, but why aren't there cures for those mental illnesses?

Maybe because the government is in such a hurry to have criminals killed, that they don't take the time to find out what's wrong with them and find a cure.

For this behavior I would have to blaim religion. If we took the scientific approach, this kind of behavior would be considered mental illness and sooner or later a cure would be found. Maybe it might even then be prevented. Unfortunately, when religious people see criminals, they do not see mental illness, they see EVIL. And since evil can't be cured, they figure that criminals should be locked up for life or executed.

What was wrong with John Wayne Gacy? Did he have an extra chromosome that caused his behavior? Did he have a physical defect in his brain or was his illness the result of how he was raised? Maybe it was the result of a chemical in his evironment?

We will never know what was truly wrong with him because instead of treating him as sick, we treated him as evil. And when the next John Wayne Gacy appears, we will have to start from scratch all over again.


Tom

 

[goofyfish]

Originally posted by Banshee
Guess this is a far better punishment. Justice done!

Originally posted by Joeblow93132
Funny how there are only two choices: Execution and life imprisonment?? Doesn't anyone believe in rehabilitation anymore??

There are four basic motivations for punishment:

1. Prevention (i.e. while you're in jail, you can't commit any other crimes.)
2. Deterrence (that sign in the bank.)
3. Rehabilitation (it sounds good in theory.)
4. Revenge

Revenge is simply not a proper, civilized motive for punishment, and in the U.S., theoretically, we base punishment decisions on the other three. In practice, however, punishment is almost invariably for revenge.

With our present system, I pretty much accept that rehabilitation and deterrence are a joke, and that prevention only lasts as long as the punishment. Even the permanent prevention solution (the death penalty) is not applied based on who is more likely to do it again, but on how badly society wants to get back at the criminal.

And of course "the punishment fits the crime" is ALL about revenge. In the U.S. at least, it's based on societal standards. In California, they have had several recent referenda on adding specific crimes (killing a witness, killing a juror) to the death penalty list. The voters basically decided what punishment they felt was most appropriate for the crimes specified.

I have also heard the theory that the death penalty is necessary because it prevents citizens from taking their own revenge and lets off some "societal steam". This is revenge pure and simple. When criminals end up in front of a judge, whatever lip service we may pay to teaching them about the consequences of their behavior, our real motivation in punishing them is apparently to get back at them for what they have taken from society.

Peace.

 

[blonde_cupid]

Banshee,

***Killing a killer makes you a killer!***

Yes. Because this is a reality that is so simple to see, it is also a reality that is easy to side-step when we (Bullet, for example) are not the one's actually pulling the switch.

Bullet,

***Killing a Killer just seems right to me.***

As Banshee pointed out, killing a killer makes you a killer. When will your murderous acts be made right?

Aren't you the least bit concerned about owning such murderous acts and carrying them to your grave?

If killers deserve to die, then what do you deserve?