Death penalty for tycoon rapist

[Cellar_Door]

That doesn't limit it; we use the death penalty for all heinous crimes. At least, we should.

Sooo, we don't then.

'Heinous'? Does that cover all rape then? I mean, in law, rape can be a fairly ambiguous word. Check out some of the numerous threads debating the matter.

Who cares if criminals die? I don't.

I do. Guess that flattens your vote.

When it comes to the D.P, I think anyone with half a brain should understand why it is not suitable for modern, civilised society.

 

[Norsefire]

Sooo, we don't then.

'Heinous'? Does that cover all rape then? I mean, in law, rape can be a fairly ambiguous word. Check out some of the numerous threads debating the matter.

Rape is about as heinous as you can get.

I do. Guess that flattens your vote.

When it comes to the D.P, I think anyone with half a brain should understand why it is not suitable for modern, civilised society.

There's no reason to care for criminals.

And no, I don't realize; why exactly is it not suitable for modern, civilized society?

 

[Cellar_Door]

Rape is about as heinous as you can get.

If a guy sleeps with a very drunk girl, should he be executed?
If a guys sleeps with his fifteen year old girlfriend, should he be executed?
If a woman shouts 'rape', and there were no other witnesses, should he be executed 'just in case'? After all, you've expressed several times how you don't care if innocent people get killed for the DP.

There's no reason to care for criminals.

And no, I don't realize; why exactly is it not suitable for modern, civilized society?

I debate using logic, Norse, so it is almost impossible for me to argue against someone who is possessed of such untameable emotion and hatred.

 

[Norsefire]

If a guy sleeps with a very drunk girl, should he be executed?
If a guys sleeps with his fifteen year old girlfriend, should he be executed?
If a woman shouts 'rape', and there were no other witnesses, should he be executed 'just in case'? After all, you've expressed several times how you don't care if innocent people get killed for the DP.

Of course I care, but what do you want me to do about it?

I debate using logic, Norse, so it is almost impossible for me to argue against someone who is possessed of such untameable emotion and hatred.

As do I; what in "logic" leads you to the conclusion that the death penalty shouldn't be used? It's permanent, gets the job done, and gives closure and justice to the victim.

 

[Cellar_Door]

As do I; what in "logic" leads you to the conclusion that the death penalty shouldn't be used? It's permanent, gets the job done, and gives closure and justice to the victim.

We've debated this point a hundred times. Permanence is the one I have a problem with. As for 'gets the job done' that really depends on what job you are trying to accomplish. Revenge? For some, yes. Justice? I think not.

Of course I care, but what do you want me to do about it?

You could stop arguing for unnecessary death for a start. Innocent people die, have die and there are some that scream that they are innocent until the very last (but your justice system has found otherwise).

Now you are trying to propose the DP for rape - a vast disproportion between crime and punishment. Then there is the ambiguity of rape itself, and the fact that it can be hard to determine what defines consent.
In plain English, that means that more innocent people will die.

 

[Norsefire]

We've debated this point a hundred times. Permanence is the one I have a problem with. As for 'gets the job done' that really depends on what job you are trying to accomplish. Revenge? For some, yes. Justice? I think not.

What is justice if not revenge?

You could stop arguing for unnecessary death for a start. Innocent people die, have die and there are some that scream that they are innocent until the very last (but your justice system has found otherwise).

It's very necessary. The criminal must pay.

Now you are trying to propose the DP for rape - a vast disproportion between crime and punishment. Then there is the ambiguity of rape itself, and the fact that it can be hard to determine what defines consent.
In plain English, that means that more innocent people will die.

A vast disproportion? Rape is horrid. Why are you defending it?

 

[Cellar_Door]

What is justice if not revenge?

re·venge
1. to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, esp. in a resentful or vindictive spirit: He revenged his murdered brother.
2. the act of revenging; retaliation for injuries or wrongs; vengeance.
3. the desire to revenge; vindictiveness.
4. an opportunity to retaliate or gain satisfaction.


jus·tice
1. rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.
2. the administering of deserved punishment or reward.

A vast disproportion? Rape is horrid. Why are you defending it?

Oh don't be so childish; you know full well I am not defending it (and nice sidestep from the rest of my point, by the way). I consider burning animals alive horrid; I consider beating up old ladies and stealing all their savings horrid, but I would think killing the perpetrator a vast miscarriage of justice (and so apparently, does the rest of the world).

It's very necessary. The criminal must pay.

If you consider innocent deaths by judicial mistakes necessary, then my debating with you is futile.

 

[Norsefire]

re·venge
1. to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, esp. in a resentful or vindictive spirit: He revenged his murdered brother.
2. the act of revenging; retaliation for injuries or wrongs; vengeance.
3. the desire to revenge; vindictiveness.
4. an opportunity to retaliate or gain satisfaction.


jus·tice
1. rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.
2. the administering of deserved punishment or reward.

And you proved my point; the death penalty is the deserved punishment.

Oh don't be so childish; you know full well I am not defending it (and nice sidestep from the rest of my point, by the way). I consider burning animals alive horrid; I consider beating up old ladies and stealing all their savings horrid, but I would think killing the perpetrator a vast miscarriage of justice (and so apparently, does the rest of the world).

How so? Miscarriage of justice? What nonsense! Violent criminals are violent criminals. You really sound like you're defending them.

The rest of the world? Not only is the death penalty very alive and well, even in developed countries (Japan, USA, developing Asian countries like China) but also in Europe there is significant support for it. It's just the stupid EU that banned it. In the UK there is almost 50% support for it, well over 35-40% of France, 63%+ of Poland, popular support in Russia, about a third of everyone in Germany.

Very, very few EU nations have "low" support; maybe Spain.

If you consider innocent deaths by judicial mistakes necessary, then my debating with you is futile.

I consider the punishment of the criminal necessary.

 

[TW Scott]

they out to throw the fortune teller in jail as well.

Why? The fortune teller just told him to have sex with virgins. It was the tycoon that decided to rape. He could have just as easily used ways to get consenting virgins.

 

[TW Scott]

Look at the scale of how many he raped; also rape is especially heinous. Death is not enough.

But stating one rape equals death penalaty is not good. I mean what is all 20 women had been willing but had been just under the age of consent. Technically that is rape even if it is the day before their birthday. Or what if he had just gotten the women hammered drunk first and then asked them. They might have been realtively willing but in their inebriated state unable to legally give consent. Or given our legal code a woman can decide the day after that you raped her, even if she initiated the sex.

 

[Blue_UK]

He should be sentenced to death by erotic teasing.

 

[Cellar_Door]

Norse you missed the point in every one of those quotes. Please have the decency to at least read my posts properly.

1. I was talking about the death penalty for burning animals alive or beating up old ladies and stealing their savings. NOT the DP in general.

2. Punishment is necessary, but not at the irrevocable expense of the innocent. I feel I have been very clear and I wonder at how you still miss the intended point so spectacularly.

3. Proved your point? Do you have any idea at all as to what I was trying to bring your attention to in posting the definitions?

 

[Norsefire]

Norse you missed the point in every one of those quotes. Please have the decency to at least read my posts properly.
1. I was talking about the death penalty for burning animals alive or beating up old ladies and stealing their savings. NOT the DP in general.

And both of those things are horrible!

2. Punishment is necessary, but not at the irrevocable expense of the innocent. I feel I have been very clear and I wonder at how you still miss the intended point so spectacularly.

Then we're sacrificing punishment and becoming lenient on the criminal

3. Proved your point? Do you have any idea at all as to what I was trying to bring your attention to in posting the definitions?

Sure. And it proved my point, which is that justice is basically revenge.

 

[Cellar_Door]

Then we're sacrificing punishment and becoming lenient on the criminal

Lenient - you think life in prison is lenient?
Then why does a thread exist, authored by you, titled "Why not just execute those who receive life without parole?"

 

[Norsefire]

It is rather lenient considering they get entertainment and all of that BS.

One cold cell, no windows, no bed, only a dirty toilet, NEVER LET OUT, and crappy food. Extremely small room.

Now THAT is punishment.

 

[Cellar_Door]

Norsefire, what experience do you have of prisons?

My dad once told me of one man he knew quite well, who was accused of being 'a grass' (pointing out a wrong-doing). Boiling water mixed with sugar was thrown into his face (to make sure the skin carried on burning). He was hardly recognisable after they'd finished with him.
And the price for being a 'nonce' (sex offender, much like the subject of this thread)? The above method is often favoured, along with knives or maybe petrol and a lighter. The nonces even have to be kept in separate parts of the prison to prevent the others getting to them.

The media portrays prisons as clinically clean establishments, complete with play stations and day-trips. This is a lie for the ignorant masses to divert attention away from the real problems in their lives.
With all due respect, you seem to be clinging to this notion as well.

As for our long-standing feud on the subject of the DP...

Norse, whatever you may think of me, I am no woolly liberal. Yes, I agree that there are some especially bad crimes that make me so sick to the stomach that I begin question my own views on Capital Punishment. However, what does it all achieve in the end?
Revenge is an empty goal. In fact, CP causes more suffering than it can ever solve.

 

[Norsefire]

Prison solves nothing, and is also revenge. As far as I'm concerned, criminals are sub human monsters who deserve the noose.

 

[Tiassa]

How low shall we go?

Prison solves nothing, and is also revenge. As far as I'm concerned, criminals are sub human monsters who deserve the noose.

The low value you put on human life undermines the sense of outrage to which you appeal in order to justify your bloodlust.

See, that's part of the problem about being a homicide advocate: the only logic behind state-sanctioned homicide is cold and economic. There's no genuine human appeal about it.

There will always be criminals who do horrible things in the world. That's part of nature, and we must deal with it as best we can. In the meantime, it's the self-righteous, bloodthirsty, so-called "good" people who I find unsettling. We know about the evil stuff; it's what some folks will call "good" or "right" that gets scary.

 

[Norsefire]

Rofl.

Read my "which is more barbaric? life in prison or death penalty" thread


Prison is barbaric and wicked.

 

[Tiassa]

Wickedness as a reflection of a society?

Prison is barbaric and wicked.

In the United States, prison guards are referred to as "correctional officers". Correctional? What are they trying to correct? Absolutely nothing, the way we've been going about it. Notions of rehabilitation are something of a joke right now, but the concept persists because it has some appeal compared to the vaunted value of human life.

Unfortunately, because of politics and greed, the only thing the "correctional" system actually corrects these days is the errors of method: if you keep your head about you, prison will teach you how to be a better criminal.

Of course, such an outcome is coincidentally convenient to the homicide advocates who would show their respect for the value of human life by desperately seeking any excuse to kill someone.

The state of a prison system tells us much about how much a nation truly values human life.