Dear Believers, prove your god or gods is/aren't just fiction(s).

If you buy in the bible's BS then your grasp of reality is sadly lacking. That makes it hard to understand a road map, leave alone science.
 
Revelation In Space said:
[Sigh] Let's say I tell you I went to the store to buy a coat but I tell someone else I bought a coat at the store. Is that a contradiction? Is that a totally different story?
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Nope.

Now let's use an example that is actually parallel.

Let's say you hear this story:

"So I went to the store to buy food. Got some. I talked to a friend of mine that I met there. Then I left and went to a garage sale. Then I saw a great coat there and I bought it. Then I came home."

Where did the person buy the coat?
 
billvon said:
Nope.

Now let's use an example that is actually parallel.

Let's say you hear this story:

"So I went to the store to buy food. Got some. I talked to a friend of mine that I met there. Then I left and went to a garage sale. Then I saw a great coat there and I bought it. Then I came home."

Where did the person buy the coat?
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I would assume the garage sale, though a vague doubt could be caused by the structure of the announcement. As much as I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, they don't deserve it. I myself suck at grammar which is only arbitrary rules governing communication. So clarification might be advised in matters of import. I always ask if I need it.
 
Pinball1970 said:
I dont think you mean that.
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I do mean that because I refuse to trivialize science as an ideologue, so I don't politicize it, bending it to my own will and using, misusing and abusing it for my agenda. I think science is very important to our lives, just as I think auto mechanics is, but I'm not an auto mechanic. Saying that there are bad auto mechanics isn't being an auto mechanic denier. You will notice that, although here in a science forum I may comment more on science in general as it is shoved down my throat, but in an atheist/theist forum I would normally participate in I wouldn't make it into that much of an issue. Typically, I throw the science minded atheists a bone when they've had their fill of theology, but otherwise it isn't important to me, or of interest, nor am I, consequently, particularly conversant on the subject.

I don't see the Bible, theology or religion as a threat to science nor science as a threat to those. Outside of the minds of ideologues on both sides.
 
Revelation In Space said:
I would assume the garage sale
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Excellent; I agree.
To make the parallel argument, that means that in Genesis 2, cattle came after people.

Again this is not some big revelation or discovery, since they are two completely different stories - so there's no real need for them to agree.
 
billvon said:
Excellent; I agree.
To make the parallel argument, that means that in Genesis 2, cattle came after people.

Again this is not some big revelation or discovery, since they are two completely different stories - so there's no real need for them to agree.
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The second account isn't chronological, it's topical, meaning events would be introduced as they pertain to the relevance of man. Man is mentioned created in the garden doesn't mean man came before the garden. Man gave names to the animals so animals are mentioned. That sort of thing. Just because you tell one person that you went to the store to buy a coat and another you bought a coat while at the store doesn't mean you've contradicted yourself or that you bought the coat before you went to the store.
 
Okay, a list of things you know very little about, buzz words for you. Got it. Now what was the intended use of that list?
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Okay, a list of things you know very little about, buzz words for you. Got it. Now what was the intended use of that list?
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I don't have to know much about them to see that ideologues have given a bad name to science or failed in their capacity to correctly use science in those cases. Before you get your feathers in a bind, all upset because someone doesn't see science as their religion and would dare blasphemy it, keep in mind that what I'm saying is that science ideologues aren't science. They make science look bad or they abuse and neglect science for their ideology.




 
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Revelation In Space said:
The second account isn't chronological, it's topical, meaning events would be introduced as they pertain to the relevance of man.
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So when a commonsense example is presented, you correctly point out that if things in a narrative happen in an order, they are in that order.

But when it comes to the Bible you make a special exception because otherwise you'd have to acknowledge that Genesis is two separate stories. You want to believe it is actually, literally true - and thus you engage in magical thinking, where wanting something to be true might just make it true.

When your beliefs, not the facts, drive your thinking, you cannot make rational evaluations of anything.
 
billvon said:
So when a commonsense example is presented, you correctly point out that if things in a narrative happen in an order, they are in that order.
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I want you to listen to me. The analogy I gave was a common-sense example of your failed logic. It compares to your misunderstanding of the Bible. Now, go back and reread the points I repeatedly made.

billvon said:
But when it comes to the Bible you make a special exception because otherwise you'd have to acknowledge that Genesis is two separate stories.
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It isn't two separate stories. Just because you read it was and want really bad to believe it doesn't change that. Likewise, if I were doing the same.

billvon said:
You want to believe it is actually, literally true - and thus you engage in magical thinking, where wanting something to be true might just make it true.
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I do not want to believe the Bible is true if the Bible isn't true. Truth is more important to me than God, which is why God is so important to me. Because I can easily find the misapplication of truth beneath your lame ideology, but I can't do that with God. I've tried for 30 years. That's what science is. Science doesn't look to demonstrate the truth; it looks to demonstrate the false.

billvon said:
When your beliefs, not the facts, drive your thinking, you cannot make rational evaluations of anything.
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I don't trust my beliefs, I don't trust my thinking, I don't trust rational evaluations.
 
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