Dear Believers, prove your god or gods is/aren't just fiction(s).

Tiassa said:
And it's not like you do any better when someone else↗ writes the setup. Other than taking satisfaction, what is it you think threads like this accomplish?
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I like to treat people with respect, give them the benefit of the doubt.
I admire and respect sincerity and honesty.
A theist has entered a debate and I am interacting with him.
He is giving ME the benefit of the doubt.
It could descend into madness, I hope not.
One of my best friends on the internet is a YEC, she is beautiful. She bugs me to explain things because I am a scientist.
When I explain I am not a scientist, I am a tech she berates my British pedantry and orders me to give myself to Jesus.

Brilliant.
 
I like the way the lovin' God has all males and all non-virgin females slaughtered. As it that would prove the kids were theirs.
 
There is so much wrong here and I barely know where to start cleaning it all up.

1. Faith
You have said a lot against God and "faith"... Didn't you say that you have never "cashed a check on faith" alone?
I find this statement somewhat unlikely as I am sure you have entered into agreements with no guarantee of profit. But I digress.

All people act out of faith. It does not matter if their faith is true or not, it makes them act.
No farmer would throw his precious food grains on the ground if he did not have faith in the law of the harvest, and hoped for a harvest later.
Faith is a driving motivator, and no person can live without faith. People who lose all faith stop getting up in the mornings and eventually die. You go to work having faith in salaries or profits. You cook food having faith that you can eat it later. Faith is as simple as that. What you do not have faith in, is God.

2. Evidence

People have a tendency to disregard evidence they do not agree with.
There have been found many strange "Out of Place Artifacts" around the world. Things we cannot explain. And yet they are either explained away or disregarded. For example: People may or may not listen to somebody who says they have seen an angel or a UFO. But still we find records of visions and experiences that we cannot explain. What did Moses see, when he explained about the burning bush that was not consumed by fire? Was it electric lighting? Was it magic? He experienced something, I am sure of it, since I have sufficient faith to believe his account of that experience. So why do we not believe him? Why do we not believe people when they come back from a Near Death Experience and tell us that there is a life beyond this life?

I posit that there is not exactly a lack of evidence. There is merely a lack of faith.

The prophet Joseph Smith claims he saw God - a man standing in the air and speaking to him. Light all around him and emanating from him. For this Joseph was persecuted and suffered all his life, until he was murdered by angry members of less successful churches. Despite all his suffering, he could not deny what he had seen, on pain of death. And the same happened in the time of Jesus Christ, whose apostles had all reason to abandon a failed and false religion to avoid getting imprisoned and murdered, but Paul testified before king Agrippa "I cannot deny it, because it is true".

When people ask for absolute proof, I want to show you why such proof does not exist:

What if I told you that I am actually Bill Gates? Would you believe me? What manner of proof could convince you that I am actually Bill Gates?
Would you be convinced if I showed you my birth certificate and it identified me as Bill Gates, the founder of Windows? Would you think the certificate photo shopped? What if I had Bill Gates' parents testify that I am he? Would you believe them? Even if I do not look like him at all? What if I appeared before you and look exactly like you expect Bill Gates to look like? What if I donated you a billion dollars just to prove that I am the famed billionaire? Would that convince you?

Whatever your answer is, you are still at risk of getting it wrong. You cannot know, with absolute certainty, whether I am Bill Gates or not.
People can fake a birth certificate. Anyone can claim to be anyone. His parents could have been coerced to lie. His money might belong to somebody else. You could have detectives dig through my search history and try to identify me, but maybe Bill Gates is employing spoofing on his accounts.

I can say that I am not Bill Gates. But how will you know, with absolute certainty, that I am not lying when I say that? My point is: You make the choice. Either you choose to believe that I am he, or you choose not to believe it. You can weigh the evidence against each other and conclude that the probability of Bill Gates responding to this thread with such words as i use, is just too unlikely. But whatever you decide, it is a matter of faith, because you cannot personally prove or disprove my claim. You can just choose not to believe the evidence, or chose to believe it.

3. Do an experiment to find the truth

Jesus Christ claimed to be the Son of God. He claimed that his words and commandments would bring salvation. But he never asked for "blind" faith. To those who doubted that Jesus' teachings come from God: (John 7:16-17) "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."
In other words. Try it out. See if living the teachings of Jesus Christ will not make you a happier person. See if faith in Him will not enrichen your life, grant you more happiness, love and faith. Give you peace of mind and ultimately grant you a majestic resurrection.


Why God only reveals himself to those who actually study the teachings and obey his beloved Son, is left up for discussion. But if you cannot prove that God lives, then know that I cannot even prove whether you live (because what if all this is something like a dream or "The Matrix" from the movie? But it does not matter to me so much anymore, because I know that being kind and helpful and humble has solved my conflicts and given me friends and happiness that no faithless person has ever achieved. And so this is my proof to you: God is real, because he answers prayers, reveals himself to the faithful, and because his teachings has done more to bring peace and stability to the world, that every false idol before him.

You can claim a lot about the crusades and jihad, and I can point out that Jesus was never a proponent of unrighteousness or abuse of power. False religion has done much to hurt mankind. But I guess it is up to you to contradict me and say that "Surely the crusaders did not follow a false religion" or whatever. And maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Either way, I know that God lives. And I do not demand that you do too. Because you will know for yourself all too soon. Because life is but a moment, a test, a dream. Then we shall know.

1. Corinthians 13 : 9-12
"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then [we shall see] face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

Truth will reveal itself in time, since falsehood will always get disproven eventually. But demanding proof of God, when so many testimonies exist, even among those alive today, is just a lack of faith in honest people.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
The lack of faith is a red flag for sensible people.
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I wonder if you made a typo. I expected you to say the opposite. That "Faith is a red flag". But I find myself agreeing that "Lack of Faith is a red flag". Because faith and hope drives us forward and those who have neither become as selfish as a hungry babe. Only with faith can they overcome their base desire for food, hoping to get it later, trusting a loving parent that they have not learned to have faith in yet.
 
Pinball1970 said:
Crop technology is well documented verified science. Claims in ancient books are not verified and in fact go against everything we know about life on earth and the Universe.
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Blah, blah, blah [vulgar simulation of masturbation]

You never back anything up with facts, you just assume your ideology is based upon facts. Someone needs to send you on a wild goose chase so you can learn to think for yourself. And back it up with something other than an appeal to authority.
 
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