Crop circles

[kmguru]

Crop-Circle - redux

Crop-circle expert and Signs advisor Colin Andrews sorts circular trick from truth in Popular Science Magazine


When two men claimed responsibility for England's crop circles in 1991, the world let out a collective "case closed." But not Colin Andrews, founder of Circles Phenomenon Research International, who claims hundreds of them are unexplainable. Andrews, who is not a scientist, served as advisor to Signs, in theaters August 2; we caught up with him to get his take on all things (paranormally) circular.

—Ted Johnson


Popular Science: Hasn't it been proven that crop circles are hoaxes?

Colin Andrews Not necessarily. When Doug Bowers and David Chorley demonstrated their method of creating them with a plank, rope, and baseball cap, it dramatically affected the public's perception. But I've found that just over 80 percent appear to be manmade, with indications like soil depressions and trace marks. Twenty percent do not. There's something real here.

PS What?

CA They scream of intelligence. My gut feeling is that something is trying to get us to look at ourselves and how we respect or disrespect our surroundings. I get a sense that there is concern for our environment and our planet.

PS Ever seen one form?

CA No, but I've interviewed about 30 people who have. Their stories vary, but they agree on several features: The plants initially oscillate, then collapse with force and rotate within a vortex until they are lying completely flat on the ground. The process takes less than 10 seconds.

PS Have any formed recently?

CA Yes, 15 new ones arrive every day. Around 10,500 have been reported worldwide since 1975.

PS Ever created one yourself?

CA Oh yes. We've tried all sorts of things to replicate the features of the unexplained 20 percent. But we simply can't.

 

[Stryder]

I've mentioned this multiple times before, perhaps I should give a slightly different method of explaining.

It's known that Surgeons can perform specific "Lazer" operations, where the lazer can make an incision without leaving too much damage in comparison to that of normal surgery.

Such Lazer skills allow the Surgeon to not even break the skin in some instances.

I mention that because the formation of a CROP CIRCLE can be done in much the same way, but utilising Communications equipment alongside a computer control to create Lazer treatment on a "Global scale".

At first the original CROP CIRCLES might leave scorched earth or crops, but with continued attempts electromagnetics was calibrated further. Corn and wheat when young and stillgrowing produces particular chemicals that feed it. These chemicals allow it to have a suppleness so that the crop can bend in the wind.

In this case you can look upon "Electromagnetic Stiffening" (A method previously noted used by MIT for the slowing down of a photon.) The basic idea is that using String theory, it's possible to quantum stiffen the artifical background radiation that surrounds the corn, and allows the bending of space.

These spacial bends cause the quantum entanglement to realign to the spacial folds, that only exist while the combined use of systems generates them.

These sort of "Pranks"/Experiments have been used by "The powers that be" while utilising systems that will always be referd to (or not refered to at all) as classified.

Unfortunately though, it's not a super race of aliens trying to communicate, just a board Radiology Operator/Technician caliberating his system.

 

[James R]

He doesn't seem to mention what's inexplicable about the "unexplained 20%".

 

[Xev]

JamesR:

The fact that people take even .1%, let alone 20%, of crop circles "seriously" is quite inexplicable.

At least to me.

 

[Northwind]

I believe the word is "bollocks".

The case is closed, folks. Has been for a long time. these mysterious features the "true believers" always talk about, they never seem to be able to enumerate them. It is just a case of people being unwilling to give up dearly held illusions. Like christians, or people that think Banshee is a good moderator.

 

[kmguru]

Originally posted by James R
He doesn't seem to mention what's inexplicable about the "unexplained 20%".

For that....you have to wait for the movie....

 

[thed]

Are they still at it?

This was thoroughly debunked on by the UK's Channel 4 a few years ago. They got the Circle Makers to do their thing and filmed them in infrared. They then got the 'True Believers' to study the manmade Circle using their highly scienctific technniques, including dowsing. It was declared to be natural, one of the unexplained 20%. The tape was then sent to the believers and they where invited to comment, guess what, no comment.

The unexplained phenomena includes,

<ul>
<li>Wheat stalks bent at 'nodes' without snapping
<li>Elevated magnetic fields
<li>Anonymous magnetic fields, not aligned to true magentic North and only in the Circle.
<li>Dowsing rods go ape.
<li>Probably increased Orgone energy levels. I could be wrong on that one.</ul>

Of course, you could just read http://www.circlemakers.org. The web site of the guys who started this.

 

[thed]

For that....you have to wait for the movie

This one you mean.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Crop circles are real. SO what causes them?

No probable natural cause has been shown. All theories about natural causes involve other hypothetical phenomenon, so you end up "explaining" one mystery with another.

So they must be created deliberately by rational beings. Which rational beings are available that have the means, motive, and opportunity to create crop circle?

1) Homo Sapiens:

Means: Documented cases exist where humans have made very intricate crop circles. We have lasers, GPS devices, night vision devices etc. etc.

Motive: Humans are known to do anything to get fame, even anonymously. This is no more strange than painting a train.

Opportunity: There are about 6 billion humans on the planet.

2) Aliens:

Means: Sure. In all probability they will have ample means.

Motive: Its hard to guess at the motives of alien minds, but even to a very advanced technology, interplanetary travel is bound to be costly, so its a little hard to imagine that they have come here only to muck about in dark fields.

Opprotunity: The number of aliens on Earth is debatable, but they must be rare.

So, my dear Watson, we must conclude that with a probability of more than 99%, crop circles are made by humans.

Hans

 

[thed]

Hans

A very good summary of the situation. I like.

Welcome to the madhouse.

 

[Thor]

In reply to Northwinds comments, I say 'Up yours'. You have no proof to say that these 20% aren't real. If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.

 

[Northwind]

Originally posted by Thor
In reply to Northwinds comments, I say 'Up yours'. You have no proof to say that these 20% aren't real. If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.

I really wish your comments made sense, so I could reply to them more completely. What do you mean by "real"? Yes, there are really circles of bent grain. So what?

 

[Neutrino_Albatross]

If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.

But the guy claiming he can't recreate them is also the guy thryig to prove that aliens cause them. Sounds like a slight conflict of interest to me.

 

[kmguru]

Well...whatever it is...another half a billion for Sama..lama..ding..dong...

 

[MRC_Hans]

Hi, thed, thx.

You know, even the folks who run around making crop patterns have an interest in maintaining an air of mystery. If somebody actually managed to convince the general populace that ALL crop patterns were manmade, circle makers would be turned into simple vandals overnight, and of course they are not interested in that.

Anyway, how can the fact that one fellow says he cannot copy particular pattern be taken as proof that it wasnt man-made? I can assure you that I couldnt paint the Mona Lisa ---- does that mean it wasnt man-made????



On the other hand, while I have never tried, I think I could make most of the crop patterns I have seen pictures of.

Hans

 

[thed]

Originally posted by Thor
In reply to Northwinds comments, I say 'Up yours'.

Now, now. Let's keep this a clean fight. No need to invoke Godwin's rule before we even start.

You have no proof to say that these 20% aren't real.

Most importantly there is no proof they are NOT natural or caused by some mundane process. Only a small group of people claim there is evidence for supernatural involvement in the creation of these crop circles. Their evidence is highly suspect. As is said, extraordinary claims reqiure extraordinary evidence. Video footage of a crop circle magically forming or of a definite UFO creating one will suffice. Swinging a lump of lead around and declaring it 'evidence' of a mystical force does not.

As I said above, the worthies of www.circlemakers.org created a circle using mundane means. The circle 'believers' analysed it and declared it to be one of this 20% of real circles. Go Figure.

If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.

It says some one is not very skilled or has a vested interest. But still you are using the logical fallacy of, if I can't explain this it must be Aliens/Gaia/Supernatural.

What gets me about this is the assumption that some technologically advanced race with a knowledge of Physics way greater than ours, drives light years across the Cosmos to draw pretty pictures in a field. Why? What's the point? If they have some highly important spiritual message why not just land and deliver a speech.

I can see it know, Mankinds first mission to an extra-terrestial planet. The crew spend years in transit, or we have discovered a nifty FTL drive. We arrive to find a burgeoning industrial society on the brink of nuclear power and space exploration. The (now a highly evolved, peaceful humanity) observe the society from orbit and return home. It's decided that contact will be made and provide limited technology transfer. Another rew are despatched with a set of rules for first contact. Top of the list is, first draw meaningless patterns in fields to warn the knowledgeable we are here! Anyone see a problem with that approach.

 

[Thor]

I'm sorry, I got carried away. What I'm saying is that Northwind hasn't got any evidence to suggest that the 20% aren't made by something...different.

Some crop circles have the 'crop' bent at a certain area which is extremely hard to bend without actually snapping it in half. The crop circles have the crop bent, not snapped.

If these things are in open fields, how can someone maintain a good pattern. You'd need someone overhead to help guide them, these things are near perfect in design.
Scientist claim that the Earths own magnetic field is the cause.
A - Something that big in such a small area
B - How come it didn't affect any other fields nearby?

 

[Stryder]

I've mentioned the use of electromagnetics in the creation and how it can bend corn.

You have to look at Electromagnetics being able to "Stiffen space", this has been known to have been done in an experiment that MIT did to slow down a photon.
(Stiffening spacetime with EM)

Since most people don't understand what EM would actually do to corn, I'm going to attempt to explain.

In all matter, there is microscopic holes and fissures. These exists where atoms entwine and where molecules don't take up the full area.

These holes and fissures, allow for radiation to penetrate deep in and through. The more holes and fissures (The more Porous the matter is) the more radiation can move through with ease.

This is known to happen otherwise radio and television signals around the world wouldn't get to their destinations.

The simple fact is that with EM it's possible to flood these fissures with polarised electromagnetics, which can allow corn to be bent. (Especially since wheatcrops when growing have the nutrients that are a kind of syrup that allows the stems to be supple.)

I thought I would explain how the stem can be bent, using an old trick that involves a cigarette and cling film.
If you try bending a cigarette, you'll probably break it, but if your Wrap the cigarette in cling film, it's possible to tie the cigarette in a knot.

This is not exactly the same, but the clingfilm is keeping pressure on the sides of the cigarette while it's being deformed much like EM radiation would be doing to a stem or area of stems.

This technique as I mentioned before is a bit more advanced than the planks of wood, but it ties in with the fact that people using this system are using a more sophisticated method and create Fractal and Geometric patterns, pretty much due to their qualifications and backgrounding.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Thor: It hasnt been proved that they were not made by aliens, but it can be deduced that they are most likely made by humans. So thats what I'm gonna believe till somebody proves they were made by aliens.

How to maintain a precise pattern? In the same way as we have done for millienna building roads, bridges, tunnels, buildings: By planning and measuring. Are you suggesting that the creatures that could build the Colloseum a 1000 years ago are not able to make an intricate pattern in cereal?

Stryderunknown: I'm an electronic engineer, and I have to say that you dont make sense at all. You are just shuffling a lot of techie expressions.


Hans

 

[thed]

Snapped Vs. Bent Cereal

I'll again raise the case of the C4 documentary on crop circles. After the two guys made the circle (with boards and rope only, to a highly precise patter) none of the stalks where snapped. It was this, amongst other evidence, that led the believers to think it was a non man made circle. Cereals can be bent without snapping by standing on them.