Critical Thinking

[(Q)]

There will be more evidence of my miracle. Then you can call it a conspiracy.

It already has a name - it's called bipolar disorder.

He told me that's not how He operates... I've had conversations with Him.

No one faults you for your disorder and no one would ever think you foolish or irresponsible for seeking professional help. But we do fault you for refusing to seek help and allowing the disorder to rule your world.

So, the first thing you must do is get out of denial and admit you have a disorder, as has been stated to you by a doctor. You may choose not to take medications, but that's ok, as long as you understand the hallucinations and voices in your head are not gods, but are a result of the disorder.

If you refuse to seek help, the disorder will increasingly take over your worldview and you'll never think another lucid thought again.

I am trying to help you, whether you think so or not.

 

[ellion]

and the discussion turns to shit

 

[(Q)]

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Hostile]

There will be more evidence of my miracle. Then you can call it a conspiracy.

It already has a name - it's called bipolar disorder.

He told me that's not how He operates... I've had conversations with Him.

No one faults you for your disorder and no one would ever think you foolish or irresponsible for seeking professional help. But we do fault you for refusing to seek help and allowing the disorder to rule your world.

So, the first thing you must do is get out of denial and admit you have a disorder, as has been stated to you by a doctor. You may choose not to take medications, but that's ok, as long as you understand the hallucinations and voices in your head are not gods, but are a result of the disorder.

If you refuse to seek help, the disorder will increasingly take over your worldview and you'll never think another lucid thought again.

I am trying to help you, whether you think so or not.

Need professional help becouse some do not agree with you ? I really do not know who you are directing this to but it sounds like you are not really a doctor, just play one on the internet.

 

[SnakeLord]

There are alot of things in history that happened that were brutal and unexplainable. I have been reading the bible since I was a child. You cant just read the bible and put it down and say you are finished and understood all of its contents.

And yet you're saying that these ancient shepherds that thought the world was flat could explain these unexplainable things perfectly that all you would have to do is pick up a book and read it enough times in order to understand?

Such a lowly opinion of the last 2000+ years of human learning in preference of the opinions of people who thought the sun went round the earth. I can't say I ever understood the appeal.

Haven't you noticed what the past 2000 years have done? Oh yes - the bible features earthquakes, plagues, floods and the like - all attributed to the sky fairy. As time has passed and we have progressed you'll notice that all these things still happen and yet we do not blame eternal cloud beings - we know why and how they happen. The people's opinions that you read in that book did not know why or how these things happened, they put it all down to the only thing they could think of. Of course we now know better and know it's all utter bollocks. An earthquake is caused by tectonic plate movement, not sky beings.

Welcome to 2005.

 

[mis-t-highs]

no. not referring to a "solid" object or a thought or aything else for that matter, i was defining "useful" for superluminal.
did you notice i put a / between
"user" and "s", like this; user/s? any idea why i may have used such an odd symbol in punctauting a word?

most people use the forward slash in statement like god/gods devil/devils
your seem the same as the gerneral use, just without writing the whloe word again,like god/s meaning god/gods.

do you mind meld?

does'nt everybody.

what do you mean by "when a thought is shared" are you referring to a telepathic sharing?

of course not, and you know it, when Copernicus thought up is theory, that Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun, he shared it, it was only a thought an idea an hypotheses, subjective, until he produced evidence to show otherwise.

it is subjective

see the above.

until some evidence is produced and verified.

also see the above.

how do you produce evidence of subjective phenomena?

now your being facetious, you cant, as you know but thats not how the sentence read.

what did you see as being foolish?

spliting the sentences, does'nt help you arguement, just makes you out to be a idiot as you was when you stated this to super "are subjective feelings of no value then? what about thoughts, being subjective do they have value?" pretty damn foolish.

"we" is that you and superluminal? has he permited you to speak on his behalf? it was superluminal that i asked the question of.

no, it's the we as in general populas, also this is a public forum if I wish to answer a post I can, it matters not that you addressedit to super, if you wanted to address him personally then you should have PM'ed him.

the same is applicable to perception and to feelings, etc.

unless those thoughts,perception, and feelings, are of or in reality.

do you even know what we are talking about?

oh yes.

is a fantasy an expereince? is a dream a fantasy? i dont ask these questions to find your answers, i dont need your answers but i ask that you may question your self and realise your own delusions.

no to the first question and yes to the second, and theirs delusion here.

you seem to identify a lot of fantasy. what is that about?

it's just a word, I could of used any of these, daydream, delusion, dream, fabrication, figment, fool's paradise, hallucination, head trip, illusion, imagining, invention, mind trip, mirage, pipe dream, trip, vision.

intuition sensing without the use of your rational processes is fantasy, you use the information you've gained for your life experiences to discern a thing,

sorry! what do i do? i use the information gained for my life expereinces to discern a thing? what has this to do with intuition? intuition is a pre-conscious faculty.

as intuition is a delusion,what you really use are your memories and experiences your rational processes, you cannot sense without rational process.

you use the information you've gained for your life experiences to discern a thing, there is no supernatural event occuring, it's just a fanciful way to say, I thought that was going to happen.

there is nothing supernatural about intuition i agree.

thats not what I said, could have used any of these words, is there nothing supernatural about any of these. clairvoyance, discernment, divination, ESP, feeling, foreknowledge, funny feeling, gut reaction, hunch, inspiration, instinct, insight, intuitiveness, perception, perceptivity, premonition, second sight, sixth sense
this is the dictionary definition for intuition.

are you getting mixed up with precogntion?

no, but I had a hunch this was going to happen.

 

[geeser]

something useful has a purpose that enhances the purpose of the user/s

are you refering to a solid object or a thought,

no. not referring to a "solid" object or a thought or aything else for that matter, i was defining "useful" for superluminal.
did you notice i put a / between
"user" and "s", like this; user/s? any idea why i may have used such an odd symbol in punctauting a word?

everybody does that for instances, I put it after God like so God/Gods.
you seem to have split up whole statements, why I dont know.

when a thought is shared, it is subjective until some evidence is produced and verified.

what do you mean by "when a thought is shared" are you referring to a telepathic sharing?
what is subjective the sharing or the thought?
how do you produce evidence of subjective phenomena?

einstein thought up relativity, and shared the thought/theory and once it was tested it was no longer subjective but objective.
thats what mis-t means it's clear to me.

are subjective feelings of no value then? what about thoughts, being subjective do they have value?

now dont be foolish, we need both, because thoughts have value to the individual, that does not make individual thoughts real to all.

what did you see as being foolish?
the same is applicable to perception and to feelings, etc.

your above statement is childish or so it seems, and perception and feelings are objective, so not applicable.

imagination ?, creativity yes Having the ability or power to create, does gain experience, I surpose in a extremely obscure way you do gain experience from you imaginings, other than the obscure, I cant see how you could propagate new experiences, new fantasies yes.

do you even know what we are talking about? [/quote]it's perfectly clear to me. perhaps it's you.

 

[Hostile]

And yet you're saying that these ancient shepherds that thought the world was flat could explain these unexplainable things perfectly that all you would have to do is pick up a book and read it enough times in order to understand?

Such a lowly opinion of the last 2000+ years of human learning in preference of the opinions of people who thought the sun went round the earth. I can't say I ever understood the appeal.

Haven't you noticed what the past 2000 years have done? Oh yes - the bible features earthquakes, plagues, floods and the like - all attributed to the sky fairy. As time has passed and we have progressed you'll notice that all these things still happen and yet we do not blame eternal cloud beings - we know why and how they happen. The people's opinions that you read in that book did not know why or how these things happened, they put it all down to the only thing they could think of. Of course we now know better and know it's all utter bollocks. An earthquake is caused by tectonic plate movement, not sky beings.

Welcome to 2005.

Somthing so simple, yet so hard.

 

[ellion]

most people use the forward slash in statement like god/gods devil/devils
your seem the same as the gerneral use, just without writing the whloe word again,like god/s meaning god/gods.

so shoot me for my bad punctuation, anything to say about my use of capital letters?

does'nt everybody.

do you ?

of course not, and you know it, when Copernicus thought up is theory, that Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun, he shared it, it was only a thought an idea an hypotheses, subjective, until he produced evidence to show otherwise.

when he communicated his thoughts they became objective.

now your being facetious, you cant, as you know but thats not how the sentence read.

your right i am being facetious. why because you dont want to discuss anything your only intention is to ridicule and criticize.

spliting the sentences, does'nt help you arguement, just makes you out to be a idiot as you was when you stated this to super "are subjective feelings of no value then? what about thoughts, being subjective do they have value?" pretty damn foolish.

if iam an idiot and a fool why are you bothering conversing with me? if it is to teach me a lesson can you not think of a productive way to educate me. criticism and ridicule teach me only about your incompetent social skills.

no, it's the we as in general populas, also this is a public forum if I wish to answer a post I can, it matters not that you addressed it to super, if you wanted to address him personally then you should have PM'ed him.

you can answer a post if you will and i will respond however i will what i questioned of you was how do you get the capacity to comment on superluminal's thought process with any certainty. if you asked me about my thought process and superlumnianl answered for me, would you be satisfied with his answer?

unless those thoughts,perception, and feelings, are of or in reality.

make your point. where else are thoughts feelings and perceptions going to be if not in reality?

oh yes.

are you sure?

no to the first question and yes to the second, and theirs delusion here.

i would say a fantasy is expereinced, as dreams are experienced, as hallucinations are expereinced.

it's just a word, I could of used any of these, daydream, delusion, dream, fabrication, figment, fool's paradise, hallucination, head trip, illusion, imagining, invention, mind trip, mirage, pipe dream, trip, vision.

would you consider any of these as experiences. or to phrase better for your modality do individuals expereince these phenomena?

as intuition is a delusion,what you really use are your memories and experiences your rational processes, you cannot sense without rational process.

what you are saying above is that you need to have rational though process to sense, is this just in humans or all creatures with senses, does the canker worm have rational processes?

there is nothing supernatural about intuition i agree.

thats not what I said

you did not use the exact words but you said "there is no supernatural event occuring," pretty much means the same thing.

is there nothing supernatural about any of these.

what!
thats a bad question! how can there be nothing about something?

could have used any of these words, is there nothing supernatural about any of these. clairvoyance, discernment, divination, ESP, feeling, foreknowledge, funny feeling, gut reaction, hunch, inspiration, instinct, insight, intuitiveness, perception, perceptivity, premonition, second sight, sixth sense
this is the dictionary definition for intuition.

i am not sure what you are asking me here. these are just a bunch of words, some related some not, some may be condsidered by some people to be supernatural some may not. sorry, no idea what you want.

no, but I had a hunch this was going to happen.

was that one of them supernatural, fantasy hunches or a perceptively intuited one?

 

[ellion]

everybody does that for instances, I put it after God like so God/Gods.
you seem to have split up whole statements, why I dont know.

i never split up whole statement, i split one word, "users". god forgive me! do you have perhaps have anything to say about my more obvious punctuaion or grammatical errors?

einstein thought up relativity, and shared the thought/theory and once it was tested it was no longer subjective but objective.
thats what mis-t means it's clear to me.

but the thought existed only inside the mind. the thought transformed into an objective expression is no longer a thought it is an objective expression and must be examined as such.

thats what mis-t means it's clear to me.

you are closer to her level then.

your above statement is childish or so it seems,

really that must mean you are far superior in understanding than i am sir!

and perception and feelings are objective,

that which is perceived is objective, the perception is subjective.

you may have fun with mis thighs on this one she thinks pereption is supernatural.

is there nothing supernatural about any of these. clairvoyance, discernment, divination, ESP, feeling, foreknowledge, funny feeling, gut reaction, hunch, inspiration, instinct, insight, intuitiveness, perception, perceptivity, premonition, second sight, sixth sense

t's perfectly clear to me. perhaps it's you.

could well be sir! perhaps i am being childish *chuckles*

 

[(Q)]

I really do not know who you are directing this to...

Whose sock puppet are you?

 

[Joeman]

So, how many theists out there think they are employing critical thinking skills in their religious convictions?

Because certain people are genetically predisposed to believe in God, just like the way certain people are inclined to be druggy or alcoholic. Faith is an addiction and a mental illness. Once you are hooked, you can not get rid of the delusion.

 

[ellion]

Once you are hooked, you can not get rid of the delusion.

you may be weak willed but i am not and i know their are many that have also overcome addictions and rid themselves of delusions. your standards are not a true measure of other people, only yourself, and even that may be questionable.

 

[(Q)]

ellion sez:

criticism and ridicule teach me only about your incompetent social skills.

Oh, you mean like what you said here:

and the discussion turns to shit

Yes, incompetent social skills.

 

[ellion]

sorry Q,
but i have no interest in what you have to say.

 

[geeser]

but the thought existed only inside the mind. the thought transformed into an objective expression is no longer a thought it is an objective expression and must be examined as such.

I did state I agreed with mis-t, however you are right in part, it more like an objective assertion, until something is tested it can not be thought of (pun intended)as totally objective, because you could then say that everything that came from the mind is real and quite clear it is not, it must remain only an Idea a thought, though it can still be shared.

you are closer to her level then.

or she mine.

really that must mean you are far superior in understanding than i am sir!

it would seem so.

that which is perceived is objective,the perception is subjective.

agreed

you may have fun with mis thighs on this one she thinks perception is supernatural.

as perception is subjective and some people believe they seen god, therefore it can be construed as supernatural, in part, so I can see where shes coming from.

after read why she said that, and finding out she was original refering to intuition, I could see where the list came from.
intuition is a fallacy, there is no such thing as insight/intuition in reality, therefore it must be in the subjective supernatural realm, but not to say that all perception is supernatural, but it has a connection.
as you can see thesaurus.com states,

Main Entry: perception
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: understanding
Synonyms: acumen, apprehending, apprehension, approach, attention, attitude, awareness, big idea, brain wave, brainchild, conceit, concept, conception, consciousness, discernment, feeling, flash, grasp, idea, image, impression, insight, intellection, judgment, knowledge, notion, observation, opinion, perspicacity, picture, plan, realizing, recognition, sagacity, sensation, sense, study, taste, the light, thought, viewpoint

Main Entry: insight
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: intuitiveness
Synonyms: acumen, aha, awareness, click, comprehension, discernment, divination, drift, hep to, intuition, judgment, observation, penetration, perception, perceptivity, perspicacity, sagaciousness, sagacity, sageness, sapience, savvy, shrewdness, theosophy, understanding, vision, wavelength, wisdom, wise to

Main Entry: intuition
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: insight
Synonyms: aha, clairvoyance, discernment, divination, ESP, feeling, foreknowledge, funny feeling, gut reaction, hunch, innate knowledge, inspiration, instinct, intuitiveness, nose, penetration, perception, perceptivity, premonition, presentiment, second sight, sixth sense.

thus the thesaurus it's self, makes the same connection.

 

[ellion]

very good.

however my opinion is still that intuition is information that has been processesd by the pre-conscious/subconcsious/unconscious (which ever suits your understanding) mind and then accessed consciously, this is sometimes known as gestation. similarly with inspiration and certain creative mental functions.

 

[(Q)]

sorry Q,
but i have no interest in what you have to say.

Or course not, rationale and reason are foreign to you.

And if you have no interest, why say anything at all? Why not just shut up?

 

[ellion]

anything you say has no validity, you just make assertions blindly and stubbornly.

i have no interest in what you say, meaning what you say is simply a minor annoyance.
i pay as much interest in you as i would a fly in my house. that is why i did not shut up.
i would much rather we could have a rational discourse but you will not allow that will you?

 

[(Q)]

Of course I'll allow rational discourse, when will it be forthcoming?