Creationist questions evolution

I bet the pope would disagree with you there Jan but have it your way but tell me were there more than 8 humans left after the mythical flood borrowed from an earlier book?

So what?

Pity that you dont embrace that concept Jan.

Oh, but I do Alex.
And I think we could have good discussions if you did.

Have you started cellebrating xmas (x because we cant indentify a historical JC☺) early Jan as you write as if you are intoxicated.

You are definitely off my Christmas card list.
That’ll teach you!

Your evasion has been noted by the way.

You say many things but just making stuff up does not make it fact.

Are you saying complex, specified information doesn’t come from a mind?

Thats why we rely on scientific research so we avoid just making stuff up.
You can not show this dream you indulge to have any basis in reality.

Being only interested in research you think justify your worldview, is not scientific.

What makes you think that?

Your worldview.

What I have my own strawman that you attack...go ahead you rip that composite of your nonsence to bits meanwhile you miss the point.

Standard indoctrined response yet again.

I do not employ faith, to me it is the tool of fools, what I employ is confidence which is proportioned in relation to the evidence.
Faith is the opposite.

What you don’t do is give yourself the opportunity to comprehend the meaning of faith.
Faith is not something you employ. It is what one is necessarily left with. You reject and deny God, which means you have to convince yourself that there is a reason for it. That reason is based on faith, as you have no real evidence to support your conviction.

What we do know is JC was just another made up human god like so many others in ancient times who relied on the astrology of the time which personified the Sun.

Albert Einstein once stated after being asked if he accepted the historical account of Jesus:
“Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”

You see, there is a deep understanding contained within that statement. One that you are currently unable to grasp due to your worldview.

I notice you keep trying to catch my attention with this nonsensical, Acharya S type propaganda. But it really isn’t worth wasting time over, as you’re going to cling to it, like Darwinian evolution, to justify your world view.

Er no.
Science, atheism and football is not religion.
It is so funny how theists try to call atheism religion.

Atheism isn’t any more a religion than theism.
Secular Humanism is more of a candidate for a religion. But Darwinism? Now that’s what theists regard as a religion.

The things you mentioned in your quote, aren’t religions. They are occupations, vocations, recreational, hobbies, topics of interest, etc.
What I mean is that religion is the way we live our lives. Our conscious, and subconscious, relationship with the world, and any of its occupants we interact with. It goes a lot further than just claiming to be religious.

even the opposite to religion must be a religion such is their craving to have the whole world follow their views...well no keep your religious views to your little world. ...other ideas are not just another religion.

The opposite to religion is or religion.
But that in and of itself can be religion, but one that is in opposition to your religion.

Generally people have the idea that religion is only so if deities are worshiped because that is what it been reduced to in the mainstream.

But what is the practical difference between idolising a picture of a descended wife, and idolising a picture of Joseph Smith. The processes are the same. The only difference is the object of idolisation.

Jan.
 
Yes, it has.
That was the same as showing the relationship between dogs and wolves, essentially (that dogs came from wolves, rather than foxes or the like - which you called "obvious", remember?)

Complete nonsense. It shows no mechanism at all, for the generation of a dog from a compl
[
QUOTE="iceaura, post: 3556590, member: 27090"]One can provide huge piles of evidence and the requisite analysis, from at least four perspectives (fossil, genetic , taxonomic, and biological) - but that has already been done for you, many times. You have learned nothing.[/QUOTE]

Nothing of the sort has been produced, so stop lying.
What did candid evolve from, and how do you know it to be true?

Yes, it has.
That was the same as showing the relationship between dogs and wolves, essentially (that dogs came from wolves, rather than foxes or the like - which you called "obvious", remember?)

Standard evasion tactic!

You’re aware that any breed of dog can produce offspring with wolves aren’t you?

Jan.
 
You’re aware that any breed of dog can produce offspring with wolves aren’t you?
As can coyotes, jackals, dholes, dingos, and other non-wolves.
So?
Complete nonsense. It shows no mechanism at all, for the generation of a dog n
It does. The overall mechanism is called "Darwinian evolution", and it is the basis of the showing that domestic dogs came from grey or "timber" wolves - not jackals, not coyotes, not dholes, not dire wolves, etc.

You have no idea what it is, apparently.
 
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You answer my question first and maybe I will explain "so what".
Oh, but I do Alex.
You may think that but you are wrong yet again and examples litter a multitude of threads so much so that there is no need for me to even be specific.
Pleading guilty may see you judged less harshly and let off with a stern warning.
And I think we could have good discussions if you did.
So its all my fault?
Could some blame lay with you...a percentage at least..maybe 95% and that is 5% more than others here would extend ..so take it before I change my mind.

You are definitely off my Christmas card list.
You realise that you have ruined xmas for me.
Your evasion has been noted by the way.
Damn and here is me thinking that I got away with it.
Are you saying complex, specified information doesn’t come from a mind?
No I am saying you just cant make things up and expect them to be true.
Being only interested in research you think justify your worldview, is not scientific
I am interested in many things so many I cant list them all here.
My interest in history is much wider than studying the various fake human gods and their relationship to astrology.
I do like studying the various human species and ancient civilizations.
The human family starting back 2 million years ago is interesting...early tools is facinating.
As you know I like astronomy and photography particularly astro photography.
Not much into sport other real mans sports such as cage fighting and motocross and chess.
Your worldview.
I have more of a universe view...it is eternal.
Standard indoctrined response yet again.
So you got nothing.
You reject and deny God, which means you have to convince yourself that there is a reason for it. That reason is based on faith, as you have no real evidence to support your conviction.
I have no need to deny or reject something that can not exist because the universe is eternal ...
Eternal universe is profound ...eternal creator is not foumd.
Albert Einstein once stated after being asked if he accepted the historical account of Jesus:
“Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”

You must know I have no respect for the quotes of others.

He said there were no black holes yet his own geometry says they must exist.

His comments were no doubt what his audience wanted and clearly that statement did not reflect his real view. ..maybe he was the guest if honor at a catholic school or university when he said that...tell me where did he say that and who was his audience...anyone know?

Still I will say the JC con is well thought out and one can find useful stratagies for a stress free interaction with humans but the fact remains JC was a myth and that is inescapable.

Its like believing Sherlock Homes was a great detective with great strategies ...well sure but he also is a myth.

Look writers think they have something to tell the world but knowing of themselves that they are just unintetesting folk who dont have a real life they will pretend to be someone else knowing no one would be interested if they presented their ideas as their own.

Using a fictional character to get your ideas across is not uncommon.

And probably the sortta views a nerd would have in wishing the world was fair and pushing a non violent approach...that is what you could expect and that is what we see.
But it really isn’t worth wasting time over, as you’re going to cling to it, like Darwinian evolution, to justify your world view.
I recomend you ignore it and hope it will go away...oh wait that has been your approach from the begining...good luck it wont work...there is too much evidence for both.
Now that’s what theists regard as a religion.
I know but its science ..it is them who confuse it with religion but only because it makes their version look stupid and made up.
Its science and that is all we can say.
The things you mentioned in your quote, aren’t religions.
Mmmm I dont know why I didnt say as much.
What I mean is that religion is the way we live our lives. Our conscious, and subconscious, relationship with the world, and any of its occupants we interact with. It goes a lot further than just claiming to be religious.
OK I know what you are trying to say but is there not a better word to describe what you see...
Religion implies a god before anything else.
Moral code, character and outlook need not be religious.
The opposite to religion is or religion.
????
Generally people have the idea that religion is only so if deities are worshiped because that is what it been reduced to in the mainstream.
Well I certainly thought the presence of a god in the mix caused something to be called a religion.
But what is the practical difference between idolising a picture of a descended wife, and idolising a picture of Joseph Smith. The processes are the same. The only difference is the object
I dont see your point other than to include as religious things I consider are not religious.
You dont seem to consider a god relevant.
I see what you are driving at but you need to find another word to describe what you see.

I have my codes etc but its not a religion.

Alex
 
[Quote="DaveC426913, post: 3556541, member: As I said, there are none yet.

But we are getting better at neural networks that do the same thing as living brains (albeit much more primitive to-date).

Computers

And this is for the betterment of ALL Humanity ? Our survival ? Yet to find any truth of what your saying Dave .[/QUOTE]
You're kind of all over the map here, Riv. What does "the benefit of all humanity" have to do with the thread topic?
 
That got messed up...

But we are getting better at neural networks that do the same thing as living brains (albeit much more primitive to-date).
Computers

And this is for the betterment of ALL Humanity ? Our survival ? Yet to find any truth of what your saying Dave .
[/QUOTE]

You're kind of all over the map here, Riv. What does "the benefit of all humanity" have to do with the thread topic?
 
Stop lying.
Fossils are in fact evidence of evolution. Just because a fact makes you sad does not mean that it is not a fact.
Simple organism still require complex, specified, information. Specified Information, as far as you and I can tell, always comes from a mind.
Nope. Snowflakes are complex, specific and unique designs. No mind involved.
Are you saying intellect , and specified information, evolved out of natural processes?
Devoid of a mindful, intelligent agency?
Absolutely. We see intellect evolving in many animals.
But you’ve never seen one type organism change into a different type. I don’t mean the small adaptive changes I mentioned earlier, which we all accept. Something that cannot be disputed.
Sure. Here is a list that you cannot (rationally) dispute, a list of all the new species we have observed being created:

Evening Primrose (Oenothera gigas)
Kew Primrose (Primula kewensis)
Tragopogon
Raphanobrassica
Hemp Nettle (Galeopsis tetrahit)
Madia citrigracilis
Brassica
Maidenhair Fern (Adiantum pedatum)
Woodsia Fern (Woodsia abbeae)
Stephanomeira malheurensis
Maize (Zea mays)
Drosophila paulistorum
Are hyenas dogs? How about wolves? Foxes? Dingos? Coyotes? Jackals? Raccoon dogs? Civets? Raccoons?
Why? What are you suggesting?
You said "dogs are dogs." That is a simplistic statement, which suggests you don't really understand what you are talking about with respect to speciation. So I expanded the question.

Can you answer it?
It shows that rapid change is possible due to mutation. It uses a different method of selection, though.
No it doesn’t. You’re simply asserting that it does.
It in fact does. No one (other than you, perhaps) would claim a chihuahua is just like a St. Bernard. Those two breeds have been rapidly changed.
It is still a wolf.
What did the candid evolve from?
Do you mean canid? It evolved from the carnivorans about 50 million years ago. One branch became canids (wolves, foxes etc) the other branch became felids (cats.) So cats and dogs share the same ancestor.
fossil evidence and DNA evidence is quite strong.
I think if that were the case, like the small adaptive changes within a population, it would not be disputed. As it happens, it’s not, and it is. Why do you think that is?
It is the case. Small adaptive changes show up in our DNA. Larger adaptive changes show up in our DNA. Those are facts.
Which predecessors?
Homo Habilis, for example.
Humans were, are, and always will be humans, bilvon.
If you met a Homo Habilis you would not think he was human. (Unless a religion told you to believe that, of course.)
 
Jan.
This vid proves Eve existed.
They found her remains so isnt that exciting.
About half way through but here we have real evidence that Eve was our common great great etc etc great grandmother...you were correct.
I am sorry that I ever doubted you.
Alex

 
Proto-humans went through a bottleneck. There were protohumans before. They did not successfully breed.

The entire upper Great Lakes watershed flows through the constriction that is Niagara Falls. Could one say Niagara Falls is the "beginning" of the lower Great Lakes watershed? No. The water did not spring forth out of nothing - it is simply one narrow leg of a long - and contiguous - path.
 
Proto-humans went through a bottleneck. There were protohumans before. They did not successfully breed.

The entire upper Great Lakes watershed flows through the constriction that is Niagara Falls. Could one say Niagara Falls is the "beginning" of the lower Great Lakes watershed? No. The water did not spring forth out of nothing - it is simply one narrow leg of a long - and contiguous - path.
All evidence of an eternal universe with no creator☺.
I have decided to take the eternal universe into a religion not just any religion but one entirely supported by the science...it only requires a series of big bangs expansion contraction in an eternal circle...logic dictates it the science establishs one clear cylcle...done deal...I see a web site monthy pledfes book tours hech has anyone ever thought to do that...whst a market full of folk ready to buy bull shit and this is new bullshit better still.
I have been reading a great deal on the early us an trying to imagine various times and how my great ancestors were managing their day...what they may have thought what sckills they contributed...I am pretty sure my grest great etc etc hreat grand father invented the spear...I just know...an amazing gift to just know...
I often think that one group of early humans saw another group of humans as food and women. Eat what you dont keep approach...but its all so interesting and to think creationist miss this wonderful view into where we really came from how we evolved and with that one word you have lost them☺.
But their loss they say they want truth but turn their backs when it now here right in frint of us and we have most of the story conclusively proved.
And utube...how good is it...ok its not text book learning but you can get an education in most things cycling thru vids on the subject...and something that occured to me...if I had a good teacher in a subject I topped the class and way ahead at that...but if I did not like the teacher dead last..one year tops next year different teacher same subject last in the class.
Anyways the beuaty of you tube there hundreds to choose from on anything I think. ..but you find the teacher you like...100% retention well at least I remember enought to understand a conversation in that subject..at a basic level ....
And the stuff on human history you cant help but learn.
And I love the rain sound that settles ne like nothing else...just to lay and think about the universe what you understand so far...
Alex
 
Imagine if you could have big room or park and have every one of your ancestors all the way back...that could make a funny movie.

I sometimes imagine back and wonder what they experienced...the little quirks of luck that got each of us here...I wonder how far do we go back that we can all be relates to each other...to a family ....or were there many families ...but at some point I dont know.
But we all go back to Eve at least...thats neat.
Alex
 
Hey up Dave!
I forgot that you are a theist that accepts the Darwinian theory of evolution.

Nice to see you knocking about anyway. :smile:

Jan.

Still in the trenches I see!

Nah, I have no interest in evolution or science generally. I came out the other side and realised how pointless it is for a "creationist vs evolution" debate. Have you learnt nothing in the past 10 year or so? You cannot win, no matter how good you are.

Hope you're having a good day, and I hope you didn't miss church :)
 
Interestingly the metaphorical Gods are the recurring emergent patterns formed in Natural Evolution of living species. The allowed patterns for creation of this reality. We gave them names and specific powers and limitations.

When we are discussing purely chemical patterns we call them metaphorically by the name of Mathematics, where we have given symbolically named the values and functions of the physical patterns and their specific values and functions and their powers and limitations which present as our reality.

Lets put it this way; Metaphysically speaking, "Evolution" is much older than Gods, which themselves are sons and daughters of Evolution, and is born from Mathematical potentials of spacetime mechanics and geometry.
 
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