It's a matter of context
There was a comedian a few years ago who went on about people having affairs. His point was that "it just happened" wasn't an excuse for cheating on your partner. What, were you walking down the street one day when suddenly you were sucked, against your will, into a super-powered pussy?
And he did a bit about putting an alarm on your woman, like you would your car. You know, press the button, hear the beep to tell you it's armed. Then you can get on your flight and not worry. And, you know, when your best friend gets too close, the alarm goes off: "Please step away from the pussy."
But here's the deal. My brother protects his car with an alarm. My car is old enough that it didn't come with one standard. Instead of having my car scream and yell every two hours for no good reason like one of my neighbors with a cheap aftermarket alarm, I just use this thing called a Club. I'm guessing you have it in your corner of the world, too. If not, you probably have something similar available. Now, I'm not sure what kind of computerized alarm we might attach to a woman, but the panic button will be of no use, since most people in my area simply ignore such alarms. (They even put signs on buildings politely asking you to call emergency services if the bell immediately above it is ringing: "If alarm sounds, please dial 911.")
So think about that for a moment. Even if there was some sort of alarm, my American neighbors generally ignore alarms. The only ones that matter to us generally are on our clocks, tell us when the building we're in is on fire, and when someone is fucking with our cars. Now, given that this is a country in which people will actually stand around and watch a rape take place, rape alarms don't strike me as a particularly effective measure.
Neither does a Club. Because no matter how much someone wants to blame victims for their suffering, I'm not about to lock down my daughter in such a manner. And, besides, making it so a woman can't move does at least half the rapist's work, anyway.
So here's the problem: In a world where people smoke and drink and fuck recklessly, dive out of airplanes and ride bicycles down mountains, it seems to me that merely existing isn't one of those things that should be inherently dangerous. Which leads—I know it's tricky, but see if you can follow—to the next point:
There are a couple of reasons that stick out like a boner in a convent.
First, it's because the "suggestions" are typically made in crude fashion or at the wrong time. Feminists, in fact, teach girls how to take precautions and protect themselves. Maybe they don't where you're from, but even the Jesuit school I attended told prudish parents to shut the hell up when people complained that fifteen year-old girls shouldn't be taught how to protect themselves because (gasp!) people were talking about sex (rape) in front of them. So catch up to reality, Lepus.
The current discussion is an excellent example of the problems people encounter with the argument. This topic came about in consideration of an argument about sexual harassment. The argument about how a woman dresses was raised to justify harassment. In other words, when someone says, "Because we refuse to be civilized, you should simply curtail your freedoms so that we don't 'trespass' on them," it's kind of annoying.
Additionally, the current discussion makes some absurd, completely stupid comparisons: rape and car theft, for instance, or what one wears and physically assaulting someone. Comparing a woman to a car is offensive. Even though you're trying to be somehow civilized, you're blowing the effort entirely. A woman is a human being. A car is not. I can prevent my car from moving when I don't want it to. Doing the same to a human being is an entirely different question.
So what is a woman's equivalent to locking the steering wheel, setting the alarm, and locking the doors?
I, actually, am curious as to the answer. Don't tell me a somber paint job and ugly rims, either.
Another reason is that pretty much any time misogynists give women "advice", it's going to be offensive. Every once in a while, it's funny, and if you throw enough darts, you're bound to hit the board occasionally.
But between the messenger, the manner of the message, and the context of the discussion, it seems fairly easy for some people to offend. When you compare human beings to mere things in order to justify treating people like things, it's not going to fly.
So to use you as an example:
So please enumerate those precautions. Repeatedly I've listed potential measures extrapolated from the general principle, and people tend to want to avoid the point. Bells and I have already put the issue of the burqua in front of you. I mean, you're using rhetoric that is familiar to people who have listened to the argument that forcing women to wear the burqua is actually a measure of respect. In fact, you used the same argument about harassment, and it sounds like you're using it here.
So, for what will be at least the fifth time in this topic:
Although, to be fair, one of those repetitions was in a post to Asguard, and I have every confidence in his outlook on these points. However, I'm curious where the points above fall on your list of precautions.
Lepustimidus said:
No, it's worse. That's exactly why you should take precautions to lower the chances of being raped. I mean, you lock your car doors, lock your steering wheel, and have a car alarm to protect a piece of metal on wheels. So why wouldn't you be just as (if not more) careful with your own body?
There was a comedian a few years ago who went on about people having affairs. His point was that "it just happened" wasn't an excuse for cheating on your partner. What, were you walking down the street one day when suddenly you were sucked, against your will, into a super-powered pussy?
And he did a bit about putting an alarm on your woman, like you would your car. You know, press the button, hear the beep to tell you it's armed. Then you can get on your flight and not worry. And, you know, when your best friend gets too close, the alarm goes off: "Please step away from the pussy."
But here's the deal. My brother protects his car with an alarm. My car is old enough that it didn't come with one standard. Instead of having my car scream and yell every two hours for no good reason like one of my neighbors with a cheap aftermarket alarm, I just use this thing called a Club. I'm guessing you have it in your corner of the world, too. If not, you probably have something similar available. Now, I'm not sure what kind of computerized alarm we might attach to a woman, but the panic button will be of no use, since most people in my area simply ignore such alarms. (They even put signs on buildings politely asking you to call emergency services if the bell immediately above it is ringing: "If alarm sounds, please dial 911.")
So think about that for a moment. Even if there was some sort of alarm, my American neighbors generally ignore alarms. The only ones that matter to us generally are on our clocks, tell us when the building we're in is on fire, and when someone is fucking with our cars. Now, given that this is a country in which people will actually stand around and watch a rape take place, rape alarms don't strike me as a particularly effective measure.
Neither does a Club. Because no matter how much someone wants to blame victims for their suffering, I'm not about to lock down my daughter in such a manner. And, besides, making it so a woman can't move does at least half the rapist's work, anyway.
So here's the problem: In a world where people smoke and drink and fuck recklessly, dive out of airplanes and ride bicycles down mountains, it seems to me that merely existing isn't one of those things that should be inherently dangerous. Which leads—I know it's tricky, but see if you can follow—to the next point:
I just don't understand why the feminists get so riled up when it's suggested that they take measures to avoid rape.
There are a couple of reasons that stick out like a boner in a convent.
First, it's because the "suggestions" are typically made in crude fashion or at the wrong time. Feminists, in fact, teach girls how to take precautions and protect themselves. Maybe they don't where you're from, but even the Jesuit school I attended told prudish parents to shut the hell up when people complained that fifteen year-old girls shouldn't be taught how to protect themselves because (gasp!) people were talking about sex (rape) in front of them. So catch up to reality, Lepus.
The current discussion is an excellent example of the problems people encounter with the argument. This topic came about in consideration of an argument about sexual harassment. The argument about how a woman dresses was raised to justify harassment. In other words, when someone says, "Because we refuse to be civilized, you should simply curtail your freedoms so that we don't 'trespass' on them," it's kind of annoying.
Additionally, the current discussion makes some absurd, completely stupid comparisons: rape and car theft, for instance, or what one wears and physically assaulting someone. Comparing a woman to a car is offensive. Even though you're trying to be somehow civilized, you're blowing the effort entirely. A woman is a human being. A car is not. I can prevent my car from moving when I don't want it to. Doing the same to a human being is an entirely different question.
So what is a woman's equivalent to locking the steering wheel, setting the alarm, and locking the doors?
I, actually, am curious as to the answer. Don't tell me a somber paint job and ugly rims, either.
Another reason is that pretty much any time misogynists give women "advice", it's going to be offensive. Every once in a while, it's funny, and if you throw enough darts, you're bound to hit the board occasionally.
But between the messenger, the manner of the message, and the context of the discussion, it seems fairly easy for some people to offend. When you compare human beings to mere things in order to justify treating people like things, it's not going to fly.
So to use you as an example:
I do think that if a woman is socially smart and doesn't like being raped, she would take certain precautions to avoid rape. That's my main contention, a contention which is yet to be addressed by all the disapproving feminists here.
So please enumerate those precautions. Repeatedly I've listed potential measures extrapolated from the general principle, and people tend to want to avoid the point. Bells and I have already put the issue of the burqua in front of you. I mean, you're using rhetoric that is familiar to people who have listened to the argument that forcing women to wear the burqua is actually a measure of respect. In fact, you used the same argument about harassment, and it sounds like you're using it here.
So, for what will be at least the fifth time in this topic:
Given that going out on a date counts as slutting it up for some men, I would hope women never give this attempt to excuse sexual violence serious consideration ....
.... Just to cover a few excuses along these lines, in order to be safe from rape, women should not:
.... Just to cover a few excuses along these lines, in order to be safe from rape, women should not:
• Dress in any manner that might possibly sexually stimulate a male
• Consume any sort of intoxicant around a male
• Allow herself to be alone with any male
• Respond in any affirmative way to a male's general advances (don't give him the idea that he can ask you out in the first place)
• Consume any sort of intoxicant around a male
• Allow herself to be alone with any male
• Respond in any affirmative way to a male's general advances (don't give him the idea that he can ask you out in the first place)
Although, to be fair, one of those repetitions was in a post to Asguard, and I have every confidence in his outlook on these points. However, I'm curious where the points above fall on your list of precautions.