Yes, how ignorant and unenlightened we are to think that you meant what you posted. Modern post-truth Trump supporters know better! They know the past can always be revised when it is politically correct to do so, to better advance one's agenda. As any good Trump supporter knows, whoever controls the past controls the future.
Corona Virus 2019-nCoV
- Thread starter Quantum Quack
- Start date
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
more like pushing the horse toward the edge of the cliff after the cart has gone off it
im not paid to shrink him
most likely is simply money, statistically speaking.
i don't disagree in principal
however
if you end up trading Blows about ego placement of ideas that have no direct scientific self definition to the virus then it swings the debate so far off the subject that you end up being trolled by their game
and thus you lose al that audience
which is quite possibly the direct intended purpose of some posters.
too much noise and ego battles to contain science
and no one wants to waste thier time getting involved
its like the school yard bully dissecting peoples pets in the school yard to scare everyone off
while you may feel a need to engage them and decry the moral virtues in hopes the audience will learn
the audience have already left in disgust
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
Oh, I meant exactly what I posted. It's facetious to think the federal government can control state and local municipality testing AND the higher number of cases is being used as a political attack, even though that number has diverged from hospitalizations and deaths. You just keep ignoring what I actually say in favor of arguing some imagined caricature in your head.
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RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
in theory
the local state or federal government should not care about news headline manipulation of subject context if they are directly controlling the over sight of a medical process
when it is boiled down to simple process
the govt is in theory acting as the nurse
why the nurse should refuse to treat the patient because someone is shouting something somewhere that they dont like, seems in-congruent to the process of the core nature of the relationship
if its just a game of oneupminship on who has the worst statistics, that is a sad statement about the psychopathic nature of the system & leadership
it is one thing to state a superiority to the common person by skill and ability
but to suggest the err is in the style of comment perception, rather than the number of dead bodies
seems ...(what is an American word for that?)
No, you didn't. Because you claimed you didn't write that. Then, when I posted your exact words, you backpedaled just as fast as you could and claimed "you took them out of context!"
And that might have even worked - if this website erased posts after 24 hours.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
well i will post it here for Quantum Quaks Benefit to save him cross threading
cost of vaccine
pill production cost
medication cost
production of vaccines
production of pills
USA cant afford to buy its own developed medications
USA has no pill production in the USA to sustain its own base line medication needs
USA gets its critical needed supply of pill medication products from China
The Global supply of the base clay that is used to make ALL the worlds Medications is predominantly owned by china
and what is not owned by china is processed in china and then bought by the rest of the world(USA)
this has all been done explicitly by USA business people(the direct outsourcing of USA pills and critical medication supply)
USA medication prices, price gouge for profit(basic capitalism) to sell to the top of the market group
they price to extract the most possible profit in the shortest time to recover costs and increase over all control of the customer share and to dominate the market profit portion of the consumer spending money
basic economics regardless of your loose grip on moral equanimity and how that is selfishly orientated inside your own personal value system
in the USA a medical procedure typical costs around 3 times the price of the same medical procedure in 1st world Rich European countrys
mixed market 1st world countrys with nationalized health systems can perform the same medical procedure
at the same level of cutting edge technology
with the same level of patient care
at roughly(give or take 5%) 20% of the cost of the same medical procedure in the USA
what hopes do you now have, after reading these basic facts
that any vaccine will be available for working class people if the USA develop it ?
it looks pretty grim
now keep in mind the trade war between USA & China
if china develop a vaccine first
do you think they will sell it cheaply to the USA ?
why would they ? it would be illogical and morally against the American values.
soo
we come to a rather sticky reality question
where is all the money going ?
where is all the billions of dollars of customers money going between the super rich tycoon owners and the front line nurses and doctors and the research laboratories ?
is the system set up to fail ?
it looks like it
so we can see that the americanised version of capitalism is unable to create new vaccines and put them into the market for the average worker
the average worker in American is roughly 3 weeks pay checks away from bankruptcy
im not going to get into blagging on about china or india
they both have vast amounts of poverty
india has only about half their population with electricity
only around 55% have flushing toilets
the bulk of indias food production is created/grown in outlier farms where they have no electricity, no health care no doctors no utilities
no sewage system
etc etc etc
on the other hand
china has empty concrete citys
creating a financial market stability in a semi false market of inflation.
but they also have VAST open borders that need to be controlled.
india needs the vaccine but cant afford it
china needs the vaccine in stock pile but can barely afford the minimal amount required to stock pile
usa desperately needs a vaccine but simply will not sell it to the working class at a price they can afford
soo...
if we cross off
USA
China
India
who is left to be developing a vaccine that may be possibly produced and supplied to supply a single countrys working population ?
how long will it take to produce it ?
if you have read this far, then you are in a very small minority
you will realize its quite a mess and there is no short term solution
what i am hoping for is that a group of countrys come together to share research and production between them
like an allied nations after WW2
and seek to discover and produce the vaccine
along with the common flu vaccine
and with additional medication production(PILL PRODUCTION)
to service the world at a low price that can deliver a real product to the bottom tear working group at a reasonable cost
(US $ maybe around $7.50 per injection[they will need many, maybe 2 per year maybe 3 and on going for several years times around 3 billion people})
add on to that market access to pill production, brand identification
and you have a brand new trillion dollar industry created
one that is not so terribly designed that it is not only too big to fail but is unable to change direction or deliver the very core product to the bulk of the working class.
if you feel culturally aggrieved by any of my comments
then you are either reading in someone else's drama(miss reading / miss understanding / poor translation software...or transference)
or you have some un resolved ego problems about your personal lack of understanding of the reality of how the world and these things work.
cost of vaccine
pill production cost
medication cost
production of vaccines
production of pills
USA cant afford to buy its own developed medications
USA has no pill production in the USA to sustain its own base line medication needs
USA gets its critical needed supply of pill medication products from China
The Global supply of the base clay that is used to make ALL the worlds Medications is predominantly owned by china
and what is not owned by china is processed in china and then bought by the rest of the world(USA)
this has all been done explicitly by USA business people(the direct outsourcing of USA pills and critical medication supply)
USA medication prices, price gouge for profit(basic capitalism) to sell to the top of the market group
they price to extract the most possible profit in the shortest time to recover costs and increase over all control of the customer share and to dominate the market profit portion of the consumer spending money
basic economics regardless of your loose grip on moral equanimity and how that is selfishly orientated inside your own personal value system
in the USA a medical procedure typical costs around 3 times the price of the same medical procedure in 1st world Rich European countrys
mixed market 1st world countrys with nationalized health systems can perform the same medical procedure
at the same level of cutting edge technology
with the same level of patient care
at roughly(give or take 5%) 20% of the cost of the same medical procedure in the USA
what hopes do you now have, after reading these basic facts
that any vaccine will be available for working class people if the USA develop it ?
it looks pretty grim
now keep in mind the trade war between USA & China
if china develop a vaccine first
do you think they will sell it cheaply to the USA ?
why would they ? it would be illogical and morally against the American values.
soo
we come to a rather sticky reality question
where is all the money going ?
where is all the billions of dollars of customers money going between the super rich tycoon owners and the front line nurses and doctors and the research laboratories ?
is the system set up to fail ?
it looks like it
so we can see that the americanised version of capitalism is unable to create new vaccines and put them into the market for the average worker
the average worker in American is roughly 3 weeks pay checks away from bankruptcy
im not going to get into blagging on about china or india
they both have vast amounts of poverty
india has only about half their population with electricity
only around 55% have flushing toilets
the bulk of indias food production is created/grown in outlier farms where they have no electricity, no health care no doctors no utilities
no sewage system
etc etc etc
on the other hand
china has empty concrete citys
creating a financial market stability in a semi false market of inflation.
but they also have VAST open borders that need to be controlled.
india needs the vaccine but cant afford it
china needs the vaccine in stock pile but can barely afford the minimal amount required to stock pile
usa desperately needs a vaccine but simply will not sell it to the working class at a price they can afford
soo...
if we cross off
USA
China
India
who is left to be developing a vaccine that may be possibly produced and supplied to supply a single countrys working population ?
how long will it take to produce it ?
if you have read this far, then you are in a very small minority
you will realize its quite a mess and there is no short term solution
what i am hoping for is that a group of countrys come together to share research and production between them
like an allied nations after WW2
and seek to discover and produce the vaccine
along with the common flu vaccine
and with additional medication production(PILL PRODUCTION)
to service the world at a low price that can deliver a real product to the bottom tear working group at a reasonable cost
(US $ maybe around $7.50 per injection[they will need many, maybe 2 per year maybe 3 and on going for several years times around 3 billion people})
add on to that market access to pill production, brand identification
and you have a brand new trillion dollar industry created
one that is not so terribly designed that it is not only too big to fail but is unable to change direction or deliver the very core product to the bulk of the working class.
if you feel culturally aggrieved by any of my comments
then you are either reading in someone else's drama(miss reading / miss understanding / poor translation software...or transference)
or you have some un resolved ego problems about your personal lack of understanding of the reality of how the world and these things work.
New development: North Korea. 26/07/2020
Numerous sources.
There is a strong possibility that the narrative is being dictated to eventually blame South Korea for a pre-existing/existing catastrophe imported initially from China.
Numerous sources.
North Korean leader Kim Jong-un convened an emergency politburo meeting after a person suspected of having Covid-19 returned from South Korea after illegally crossing the border this month, state media said on Sunday.
If confirmed, it would be the first case officially acknowledged by North Korean authorities, who have so far said the country has no confirmed cases of coronavirus.
Kim declared a state of emergency and imposed a lockdown on the border city of Kaesong, calling it a “critical situation in which the vicious virus could be said to have entered the country”, state news agency KCNA reported.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...gent-meeting-after-suspected-case-of-covid-19If confirmed, it would be the first case officially acknowledged by North Korean authorities, who have so far said the country has no confirmed cases of coronavirus.
Kim declared a state of emergency and imposed a lockdown on the border city of Kaesong, calling it a “critical situation in which the vicious virus could be said to have entered the country”, state news agency KCNA reported.
There is a strong possibility that the narrative is being dictated to eventually blame South Korea for a pre-existing/existing catastrophe imported initially from China.
That narrative worked for Trump. Autocrats think alike.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
No, your bias just interferes with your reading comprehension. You literally took a quote that didn't claim anything about how much or where Trump had joked and claimed that somehow proved I said he did.
But no doubt, there are plenty here who share your level of comprehension, so you've got argumentum ad populum going for ya.
Wow, that's giving him a lot of credit if you really think he has absolute power. That's actually one hell of a compliment, in a system of checks and balances. But Trump's ego is big enough without you stroking him.
And, we praise your God for not having your level of comprehension.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
do chinese holiday in north korea ?
do north korea holiday in china ?
it only takes one official out for a walk to the shop to walk past someone in the street who breathes heavily or touch something then wipe their face
share a taxi
sit in the same seat within a few minutes
i guess north Korea must have many people dying from corona virus for them to be talking about it
covid is symbolically the black plague of the 22nd century
and so far the majority of the self acclaimed powerful leaders have no solution
they seem to be slowly realizing that covid 19 has more power they they do.
and
media fluff pieces doesn't make it suddenly go away because they dont want to talk about it.
covid 19 is kicking the worlds ass
AND !
all the highly educated specialist people who work with vaccines and study these things have been saying such a thing would happen for decades
and almost no one took them seriously
i feel particularly bad for south America with their lack of medical technology
and their lack of ability to maintain a fair & balanced government to build the basic infrastructure.
though
keeping in mind there is no modern 1st world country that could have sustained a covid 19 full scale
population wide infection
NONE !
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RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
with 1 tweet he wiped something close to a TRILLION dollars off the stock exchange and threw global markets into turmoil.
that's absolute power
he also commands the worlds largest most technologically advanced global reach military
he can put a bomb on any point of the map any where in the world, of ANY TYPE, he chooses of any size if he feels like it
is that not absolute power ?
he can give a poor person a million dollars which will change their entire life
is that not absolute power ?
he could even nuke the moon if he felt like it
or mars
so i fail to see the point of your choice of word games in a science thread about a virus
soo...
what has your point go to do with COVID_19 ?
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RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
INDIA
Coronavirus: Why won't India admit how Covid-19 is spreading?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53510307
we saw what happened when the lock down was announced
we have seen the lynch mobs beat tourists to death because of fake tweets and local hysteria
we see the arranged marriages of children
we see the continued persecution of women
we see the cast system and dowry's still center stage in culture
i think it is fairly obvious why India are trying to control the narrative on this one
to try and prevent mass hysteria and the increasing of localized lynch mob behavior which would undermine market trade resulting in increased starvation and possible sparking of cast wars
its a massive problem with a massive population
they cant afford to test half their population even IF there was enough test kits to purchase
the idol rich selfish self indulgent people think everyone can just go out and buy what ever medical care they need.
lol
such a ridiculous level of intellect
i have talked personally one on one with indian people who think its now a matter of survival of the fittest & that business should resume and just let the millions die.
(i like bbc in general and i am not shading them)
Coronavirus: Why won't India admit how Covid-19 is spreading?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53510307
we saw what happened when the lock down was announced
we have seen the lynch mobs beat tourists to death because of fake tweets and local hysteria
we see the arranged marriages of children
we see the continued persecution of women
we see the cast system and dowry's still center stage in culture
i think it is fairly obvious why India are trying to control the narrative on this one
to try and prevent mass hysteria and the increasing of localized lynch mob behavior which would undermine market trade resulting in increased starvation and possible sparking of cast wars
its a massive problem with a massive population
they cant afford to test half their population even IF there was enough test kits to purchase
the idol rich selfish self indulgent people think everyone can just go out and buy what ever medical care they need.
lol
such a ridiculous level of intellect
i have talked personally one on one with indian people who think its now a matter of survival of the fittest & that business should resume and just let the millions die.
(i like bbc in general and i am not shading them)
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
...a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability... the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability.
No matter how many times or how many folks partake in pointing out your failure to achieve either one of those tasks, you'll continue to not recognize it.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
A common theme among those who fail to appreciate that they them selves may be one of those millions..
And being able to afford medical treatment doesn't offer any guarantee of surviving infection nor long term consequences.
Example:
Any long term intubation ( ICU ventilator) with out any other complexities is in itself very risky to the long term outcomes of the patient.
So no matter how much money you have to invest in your treatment the risks are forever present even in ideal situations.
The real drama you allude to will eventuate when a vaccine or therapeutic treatment is developed that is too expensive and scarce for the wider population and is selectively being used by the very wealthy.
I think it would be illogical to assume that North Korea was some how spared the initial spread in late December 2019 to early January 2020.
Therefore the probability that NK has been enduring the pandemic with out international disclosure is extremely high.
Possibly the fact that so many are infected in a SK/NK border town, NK is forced to publicly declare their pandemic because any attempt to maintain secrecy would ultimately expose their nation wide pandemic history (which may prove in the future to be particularly tragic). By controlling the narrative and pointing to a SK source further positions the regime in their ongoing paranoid hostilities towards SK.
You imply that you and his other supporters have some kind of innate ability to tell when he is not to be taken seriously and when he is. It reminds me of how a lot of Christians read the bible, saying they know that it's not all to be taken literally, but they somehow know which bits are to be taken as literally true and which are merely advisory or metaphorical.
Does it work like that for you with Trump?
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
having an EMT personally one on one explain it to me and the risks i know what you mean with just the procedure its self
it is performed to save the life regardless of damage
and is considered a specialist skill set that they spend a great deal of time training on with only those who show a certain high level of special ability for that skill.
just going on to the ventilator its self is inherently risky of life long injury
but it is done to prevent death.
interesting how there is no mention of that in the media
its been themed as some type of simplistic cell phone app download while your waiting for dinner to be delivered.
then you have the equipment specialist nurses who need to monitor it and the technicians whom need to monitor it.
they seemed to have completely over looked that hospitals would become over loaded and people with preventable medical conditions unable to be treated
which as a process breaks down civilized society
everything starts to come part at the seems then
why would people pay tax and health care insurance if they cant get into the hospital
what about all elderly that never got the health care they paid for ?
USA where private contracts for health care are bought and paid for BUT the product and service were not delivered, even though it was paid for, when they needed it the most.
surely there is a massive liable suit there about to start ?
POINT !
since it is a private investment and private company they can charge what ever they like
selling the first 500 million vaccine doses for the highest possible price that can be extracted is pure capitalism at its finest
how many billion will they choose to make before they drop the price so another 10% of the lower middle class(average wage and salary earners) can afford it ?
rough guess on a very rough guess
55% of china
70% of india
70% of south america
35% of USA
wont be able to afford to buy the vaccine when it comes out
not counting africa because such a tiny % would be able to afford it
UK & EU will purchase it to service their medically most vulnerable regardless of its comparatively high price
Russia may have developed thier own by then and combined with the risk of a on set of winter flu season may need to keep partial lock down with flu & covid vaccines being dispersed like antibiotics to manage prevention of larger scale bubble infection risks
e.g locking down smaller villages while giving the vaccines to the larger city working groups so isolated villages can be protected by lock down and larger mixing areas protected by vaccines
the richer European countrys have smaller better serviced bubbles(small towns villages and close nit trading groups)
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