Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

[iceaura]

Holy word salad Batman!

It looks especially bad when you edit out the paragraph breaks while presenting it as a quote.

But that's not honest, is it. It's something I would not do, partly as a matter of self-respect, partly because it makes responding to meaning and content more difficult.

In its original format it's not that difficult to read, and not at all "word salad" (that's a term with a specific meaning, look it up) - but you might have had to deal with its meaning or content, to reply. You haven't done that with regard to my posts in a little while (the fish in a barrel targets you are still willing to address straightforwardly). Seattle, who has a head start on you, is apparently no longer capable of it. Likewise a couple of others. The bad habit seems to have snuck up on them. Fair warning, eh?

The large scale and media structuring campaign to minimize and deny the effects of Republican fuckup on the US economy has many facets - pretending that the economic hardships due to this Republican mishandling of a viral plague have been concentrated in an already disposable and inessential and unskilled and otherwise undeserving minority of lower class Americans, while those so far relatively unharmed are (by definition, almost) members of the deserving and accomplished and contributing class - is one of them.

The response:

You have a bright future as an online op-ed writer.

Lessee: One line innuendo, thread irrelevant, no content except an attempt at personal attack, and wide of the mark. We've seen a lot of that, but not from everybody - it's faction specific.
You have certain company in that approach - do you admire their insights and contributions? Learn anything from them?

You pulled a wingnut stereotype out of your ass, and bizarrely projected it unto a completely unsuitable poster (no fan of Nixon, for example - the only modern US President to set wages by fiat. Fascists are fuckups). You did that in agreement with Seattle's bizarrely irrelevant projection unto me of taking issue here with how much people get paid - that actually aligned with your take on the subject. It had nothing to do with mine, but that did not matter.

None of your more recent posting on this thread - from either of you - has been based on or responded to an honest and accurate reading of my posts on this thread. And as noted none of that noise has stood out as unusual, jarring, unexpected - that's how the American conservative right discusses things. It's normal.

Or to put it as you continue to verify is increasingly accurate:

The sheer irrelevancy, meaninglessness, the surreal prevalence of intrusive fantasies in these dumbass and juvenile posts from who should be the best informed citizens on the planet, is startling in its normality - there's nothing exceptional about what Seattle and Billvon have been posting here, their inability to address a topic or paraphrase an argument is something Americans now take for granted.

The problem is that sooner or later the fifth risk chicken - to elaborate Lewis's labeling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fifth_Risk - is going to hatch a disaster.
Which it has. Not war (so far), but pestilence, this time. And so the public political discussion whose result was another Republican presidency has much to answer for.

 

[billvon]

Or to put it as you continue to verify is increasingly accurate:

Sign #7 that you are taking yourself way too seriously:

You quote yourself on the Internet.

Fun discovery - I am now "the American conservative right!" Can't wait to see what I am labeled next week by the extremists on here.

 

[Seattle]

Folks, he's not that stupid - he's just picked up an obsession, and it makes bad things happen when he tries to read or think about my posts.
I have recommended he start a thread on the topic, rather than fling irrelevant shit around in one thread after another. More than that I cannot do.

You already did - that's how they got posted here. (I certainly didn't write that crap. )
As far as writing down my stuff for yourself? Feel free. Might work. At least it should improve the odds of your remembering the actual post, when attempting a reply.

Current irrelevancy, as is standard projected into my posting (in which it has not appeared until now in reply) from the world of the rightwing tool: "paid".

Some already are, lots of places. So?

? The US military is underpaid, of course, as the price of mercenary specialists proves. It is underpaid at all skill levels, however, and incorporates no fantasy of pay matching essential or deserving role. College does.

The confusion of "paid" with "skilled" or "essential" is similar in origin to the recent - and thread relevant, and unlike "paid" considered in my posts - confusion of "essential" (therefore protected rather than lost) with "skilled". These confusions are basic features of the rightwing world view in the US - part of the delusion that unregulated capitalism automatically rewards relative ability, skill, merit, and real world contribution. ( Adam Smith, among others, knew better than that)

The large scale and media structuring campaign to minimize and deny the effects of Republican fuckup on the US economy has many facets - pretending that the economic hardships due to this Republican mishandling of a viral plague have been concentrated in an already disposable and inessential and unskilled and otherwise undeserving minority of lower class Americans, while those so far relatively unharmed are (by definition, almost) members of the deserving and accomplished and contributing class - is one of them.

The problem that campaign faces in that regard is that this virus has been mishandled to the point it can wreck the country. It's the same basic issue that has brought down many other fascist governments, it's the common way fascism becomes ruin: nature sides with the hidden flaw, and fascists are fuckups.

What do you like best about your new tractor? Planting season is over isn't it?

 

[iceaura]

Sign #7 that you are taking yourself way too seriously:

You quote yourself on the Internet.

What do you like best about your new tractor? Planting season is over isn't it?

( This can go on for pages - with a ratio of hit to miss negligibly different from zero, and far below what coin flips would give them. The metaphor that recurs, to me, is the behavioral influence of a parasite - althougb it has the disadvantage of installing me as the possible source, rather than mere trigger, of a parasitism. It is odd that none of them are ever willing to just start a thread on their little obsession, and leave the others alone).

To simplify: I often quote the posts you guys are supposedly replying to, partly in mockery of your inability to follow an argument - to remind you of what you have just read and claimed to be replying to - and partly to forestall having to answer to bystanders (if any) for your presumptions and bs as if they were my posting. That's experience teaching. If left to your own devices, you will believe whatever you type - including that my posts said such and so when they said the direct opposite.

I'm sorry if you feel neglected by my general inattention to person, but your recent style of posting is familiar to me, and I don't want to get it on my shoes. Box it and bury it, if possible.

That's because your posts are - - well, this was a key item you decided was best ignored:

It looks especially bad when you edit out the paragraph breaks while presenting it as a quote.

Should I be taking things like that edit job and utterly irrelevant post content more seriously as evidence of your personal character?

Fun discovery - I am now "the American conservative right!"

Your forum identity is solidly rightwing and generally conservative. Yep.
You didn't know? Read your posts. Tell us again wherein Reagan did a good job.

It's not the worst political identity to have - it's not fascism, for example, which is currently winning its battle for the keys to the US Treasury and military forces. It answers to reason and physical fact, except in economics (always) and racial or gender matters (sometimes). Not to worry - as long as it hasn't actually joined or stayed in the current Republican Party, or voted for a Republican candidate for national office since 1994 (special indicator: a vote for W in 2004), your avatar here should be able to come out of this with basic self-respect.

Meanwhile, in addition to the all-important and never to be neglected subject of me - what machinery I own being the latest guess (wrong, of course, in three or four different ways), there is the
- - - wait for it - - -
thread topic.

Considering, then, I'll just repost a point from the last on-topic posting in this thread:

inability to address a topic or paraphrase an argument is something Americans now take for granted. It's a fungus that has come to dominate American politics. The consequences of electing yet another President amanita from the Republican shitpile have included - so far - about 60,000 extra deaths from the Covid virus (and extra tens of thousands of permanently damaged recoveries, that the US is not tracking even if it could).

The US - the source and originator of modern First World medial care and public health standards, until around 1980 the healthiest country in the world by most measures - can no longer handle a viral plague with standard First World methods. The US has lost its First World medical care capability in matters of public health.

 

[billvon]

You didn't know? Read your posts. Tell us again wherein Reagan did a good job.

There ya go. If you think I am an American conservative, and almost everyone else thinks I'm a liberal due to my positions on everything from governance to energy to science - at least I know where you fall on that spectrum.

 

[Seattle]

I'm guessing the tractor isn't working out well or the crop is going badly. They never want to talk about their tractors. It's a lefty thing.

It's probably about time for them to put away their toys and tractors and subsidies and let more African countries compete in a fair market where farming is all they have in many cases.

Here on the home front they feel the need to play farmer. Tragic really.

 

[Seattle]

Where is Quantum Quack? I come here for bad news and I feel I'm being cheated. Is the U.S. economy going to collapse or not?

 

[river]

QQ I asked about the evolution of viruses , went to the site , you suggested , bought the book this site suggested . The Evolution and Emergence of RNA Viruses , ( by Edward C. Holmes , reprinted in 2013 , first edition 2009 ) Bought it , not cheap .

Just got it today . It won't be an easy read .

But anyway thanks for the link to the site , which lead to buying the book .

To Quote the back cover of the book ;

" This advanced textbook is suitable for graduate level students taking seminars and courses in evolutionary biology , epidemiology , virology , disease ecology , and population genetics , as well as academics and researchers in these fields . Its accessible treatment of evolutionary mechanisms will also be of relevance and use to molecular epidemiologists and cellular biologists "

So for those that are entering or in biology studies , it should be an interesting read . And you will understand it faster than I can .

It will be a challenging read . For me

Thanks again QQ.

river

 

[Quantum Quack]

QQ I asked about the evolution of viruses , went to the site , you suggested , bought the book this site suggested . The Evolution and Emergence of RNA Viruses , ( by Edward C. Holmes , reprinted in 2013 , first edition 2009 ) Bought it , not cheap .

Just got it today . It won't be an easy read .

But anyway thanks for the link to the site , which lead to buying the book .

To Quote the back cover of the book ;

" This advanced textbook is suitable for graduate level students taking seminars and courses in evolutionary biology , epidemiology , virology , disease ecology , and population genetics , as well as academics and researchers in these fields . Its accessible treatment of evolutionary mechanisms will also be of relevance and use to molecular epidemiologists and cellular biologists "

So for those that are entering or in biology studies , it should be an interesting read . And you will understand it faster than I can .

It will be a challenging read . For me

Thanks again QQ.

river

You are welcome!
It is always good to witness someone one with an enthusiastic approach to learning something.
I have found that it is the terminology and language that these text authors use that provides the greatest hurdle... sooo...
Advice ( if you need it):
Write all unknown words down and define them in the context of the study. Do it in hand writing, if you can, because this improves memory functions and self-ownership ( identity can be determined by handwriting) of the result.
By the time you get through all the definitions, you have learned most of what there is to learn from the text.. and improved your vocabulary as well...for the next time you venture in to specialized learning.
Best of luck...
====
There is some discussion about how a novel virus evolved and managed to be so devastatingly contagious and deadly.
Basically it is suggested, by some, that the virus evolved in nature at a faster rate than human immunology due to our evolutionary reliance on artificial means (finite) rather than natural means ( infinite).
It is being hypothesized that a situation of evolutionary "leap frog" developed, meaning that the Bat's ( assuming they are the origin (avian mammals)) were more evolved than humans and the pandemic is simply humans catching up with nature.

There is also some discussion that the common cold, that we so often complain about and try to cure, is a part of our human immune systems evolution. In other words, if we cured the common cold we would have to create another means by which we can evolve.
As 1st world humans (especially nations like the USA) suffer a significant disconnect from nature ( too busy trying to control things) this leap frog effect is inevitable and will lead to the next pandemic and the next and so on.. ( at the moment every 5-10 years).

No one said evolution was easy.... lol
=======

I must admit it is impressive how the USA seems to have allowed Trump to push the self destruct button... another form of evolution is under way and it is almost guaranteed to be very uncomfortable...

 

[Seattle]

You are welcome!
It is always good to witness someone one with an enthusiastic approach to learning something.
I have found that it is the terminology and language that these text authors use that provides the greatest hurdle... sooo...
Advice ( if you need it):
Write all unknown words down and define them in the context of the study. Do it in hand writing, if you can, because this improves memory functions and self-ownership ( identity can be determined by handwriting) of the result.
By the time you get through all the definitions, you have learned most of what there is to learn from the text.. and improved your vocabulary as well...for the next time you venture in to specialized learning.
Best of luck...
====
There is some discussion about how a novel virus evolved and managed to be so devastatingly contagious and deadly.
Basically it is suggested, by some, that the virus evolved in nature at a faster rate than human immunology due to our evolutionary reliance on artificial means (finite) rather than natural means ( infinite).
It is being hypothesized that a situation of evolutionary "leap frog" developed, meaning that the Bat's ( assuming they are the origin (avian mammals)) were more evolved than humans and the pandemic is simply humans catching up with nature.

There is also some discussion that the common cold, that we so often complain about and try to cure, is a part of our human immune systems evolution. In other words, if we cured the common cold we would have to create another means by which we can evolve.
As 1st world humans (especially nations like the USA) suffer a significant disconnect from nature ( too busy trying to control things) this leap frog effect is inevitable and will lead to the next pandemic and the next and so on.. ( at the moment every 5-10 years).

No one said evolution was easy.... lol
=======

I must admit it is impressive how the USA seems to have allowed Trump to push the self destruct button... another form of evolution is under way and it is almost guaranteed to be very uncomfortable...

My hand writing is improving, thanks to you. I'm writing down "batshit crazy" and I will be looking up the technical meaning of that phrase and I'll get back to you.

 

[Sarkus]

There is some discussion....

Where? What's your source?

Basically it is suggested, by some,...

By who? By you? Or by others? If others, what is your source? Where have you read this?

It is being hypothesized that...

Again, by who? By you? Or by others? If others, what is your source? Where have you read this?

There is also some discussion that....

Yet again, by who? By you? Or by others? If others, what is your source? Where have you read this?

Do you see a pattern in the above?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Where? What's your source?
By who? By you? Or by others? If others, what is your source? Where have you read this?
Again, by who? By you? Or by others? If others, what is your source? Where have you read this?
Yet again, by who? By you? Or by others? If others, what is your source? Where have you read this?

Do you see a pattern in the above?

While discussion is nigh on impossible here at sci forums it isn't such a problem at other forums.
If you get about on line and seek out forums that are private you might be able to answer your silly and unnecessary questions with their asinine innuendo attached for your self.
My response and comment was designed to encourage River to always look beyond the peer reviewed and look to the future realms of research and development, which I might add always start out with hypothesis.

Do you see a pattern in the above?

I have witnessed the patterns of your responses for some time now and frankly I find them rather....uhm... never mind.

 

[river]

Sarkus ;

↑
Where? What's your source?
By who? By you? Or by others? If others, what is your source? Where have you read this?
Again, by who? By you? Or by others? If others, what is your source? Where have you read this?
Yet again, by who? By you? Or by others? If others, what is your source? Where have you read this?

Do you see a pattern in the above?

While discussion is nigh on impossible here at sci forums it isn't such a problem at other forums.
If you get about on line and seek out forums that are private you might be able to answer your silly and unnecessary questions with their asinine innuendo attached for your self.
My response and comment was designed to encourage River to always look beyond the peer reviewed and look to the future realms of research and development, which I might add always start out with hypothesis.

Highlighted

QQ , its beyond the " peer review " that alot of the time , we learn more .

 

[river]

From post #1772 , by QQ ;

While discussion is nigh on impossible here at sci forums it isn't such a problem at other forums.
If you get about on line and seek out forums that are private you might be able to answer your silly and unnecessary questions with their asinine innuendo attached for your self.

The lack of Discussion by some , not all , is the problem .

Conservative thinking is the prevalence , the Foundation upon which , any veracity of thinking is based on . On this site . If they don't agree , and/or , don't understand , what your thinking , out comes the attack on your character and reputation . Discredit the person , by those that have have the power to do so , not just on this site , but in Science Generally . Which of course limits the moving Forward of Science its self . Science is About Knowledge .

river

 

[river]

Anyway , they layout of the book , " The Evolution and Emergence of RNA Viruses "

The begining .

1 Introduction

1.1 Why study RNA virus evolution ?
1.1.1 Ways to study viral evolution
1.1.2 The scope of this book

1.2 RNA viruses and evolutionary biology
1.2.1 The RNA virus world

1.3 The basis of viral biology
1.3.1 A cursory history of virology
1.3.2 Virology 101
1.3.3 Exploring the virosphere

 

[paddoboy]

My response and comment was designed to encourage River to always look beyond the peer reviewed and look to the future realms of research and development, which I might add always start out with hypothesis.

Looking beyond any peer reviewed article or process, leaves one open to any and all Tom Dick or Harry to offer whatever crazy notion that they may dream up. That moron Trump is the best example of that.
And of course as is evidence on this forum, page after page after page, river lacks any ability to know or to learn.

 

[river]

QQ in a edition of Scientific American , ( Special Report ,October 2018 ) , at the extreme top of the cover ;

" Whats Wrong With Science - And How To Fix It " ( in a square box beside it ) . It says , page 50 .

The Main Title of the Edition is called ; THE UNSOLVABLE PROBLEM .

 

[Quantum Quack]

08/06/2020

7,065295 confirmed cases
404,571 Deaths
3,209,015 active cases.

Global death toll at about 4,203 per day ( extended by 365 to: 1,534,095 per year)
(Apparently terribly understated by a factor of up to 10 )
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

src ABC

 

[Quantum Quack]

Looking beyond any peer reviewed article or process, leaves one open to any and all Tom Dick or Harry to offer whatever crazy notion that they may dream up. That moron Trump is the best example of that.
And of course as is evidence on this forum, page after page after page, river lacks any ability to know or to learn.

Fearing the rampant imaginations of those less retrained should not inhibit good discussion. It is like this forum discussion is shut down because it fears that some members can not deal with the hypothetical...
Virologists and evolutionists are NOT stupid. They are some of the brightest people on the planet...
Should they cease to explore the hypothetical then science no longer has a future.
But to shut discussion down out of fear is much worse than tolerating others some times .. uhm .. enthusiastic imaginings.

River may have certain challenges to deal with but at least he is not as abusive and "violent" as many posters here at sciforums and I have found over the years, that River has offered some rather intriguing insights that can not be gained by more traditionally conservative methods.

You only have to read Sarkus post #1771 as a classic example of ego-centric envy attempting to shut down any discussion.


Of course the notion of evolutionary leap frog has been discussed before..by many erudite scientists..because unlike many members here at sciforums they do not fear dealing with the hypothetical.

The hypothetical is essential to any discussion...

 

[Quantum Quack]

Conservative thinking is the prevalence , the Foundation upon which , any veracity of thinking is based on . On this site . If they don't agree , and/or , don't understand , what your thinking , out comes the attack on your character and reputation . Discredit the person , by those that have have the power to do so , not just on this site , but in Science Generally . Which of course limits the moving Forward of Science its self . Science is About Knowledge .

river

No , I actually disagree, in part, because science is about what we do not know more than it is about what we know.
Knowing also, is more than about rote or mimicry or filling a text book with information that is probably obsolete by the time it is printed.
IMO the most important aspect of science is knowing what you do not know...and proposing qualified hypothesis to eventually come to know.
When a scientist ceases to explore the hypothetical he/she is no longer a scientist.