Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

[parmalee]

I made no argument about quality of life and I certainly didn't defend the health care system.

Doesn't matter. As far as "equality of opportunity" goes, health care is a decisive factor. People have become homeless due to preposterous medical bills--and there's not much "opportunity to excel" if a person's got pressing health concerns to deal with. Remember all that pre-existing conditions bullshit prior to the ACA? For the longest time, health insurance was almost entirely useless to me because my "pre-existing condition" wasn't covered. In fact, one time, after moving back to Seattle from Toronto, I was taking an anticonvulsant med for nearly a year with no problems--it was, seemingly, covered by my insurance. Then one day, after about a year, I get this massive bill from my provider--they were trying to charge me several thousand dollars for a years' worth of meds and appointments that they deemed, retroactively, "not covered" as they pertained to my pre-existing condition.

 

[Seattle]

Does that include being better at "making money on money" without producing a consumer product?
You do realize most money is made on "unearned income" which is taxed at a lower rate than "earned income".

Yes, so what? "Unearned income" is just a tax/accounting term meaning not from wages. It isn't a value judgement.

Short term capital gains are taxed like ordinary income. Long term capital gains are taxed at a lower rate. So what?

Having a little knowledge is sometimes a terrible thing, don't you agree?

 

[parmalee]

This isn't a "study". It's just an article when someone wants to argue that their opinion.

Jesus. No, but it cites studies.

 

[Seattle]

Doesn't matter. As far as "equality of opportunity" goes, health care is a decisive factor. People have become homeless due to preposterous medical bills--and there's not much "opportunity to excel" if a person's got pressing health concerns to deal with. Remember all that pre-existing conditions bullshit prior to the ACA? For the longest time, health insurance was almost entirely useless to me because my "pre-existing condition" wasn't covered. In fact, one time, after moving back to Seattle from Toronto, I was taking an anticonvulsant med for nearly a year with no problems--it was, seemingly, covered by my insurance. Then one day, after about a year, I get this massive bill from my provider--they were trying to charge me several thousand dollars for a years' worth of meds and appointments that they deemed, retroactively, "not covered" as they pertained to my pre-existing condition.

Again, it's a problem but not what I was talking about. You seem to have a one track mind.

 

[Seattle]

Jesus. No, but it cites studies.

So what? Who could possible argue that U.S. taxes of all kinds are less than in most other industrialized countries? When someone does manage to start a successful company here, obtain a higher wage job, accumulate some gains in their house or stocks, they keep more here and are able to pass more on to their kids without selling the underlying business/asset than in most other countries.

Why cite that. You already know that is the case.

 

[parmalee]

Again, it's a problem but not what I was talking about. You seem to have a one track mind.

That's kind of like saying that the early days of the United States were largely egalitarian--but nevermind women, slaves, and non-propertied white men, because that's not what you were talking about.

 

[Write4U]

Yes, so what? "Unearned income" is just a tax/accounting term meaning not from wages. It isn't a value judgement.

Short term capital gains are taxed like ordinary income. Long term capital gains are taxed at a lower rate. So what?

Having a little knowledge is sometimes a terrible thing, don't you agree?

Yes, as bookkeeper for a multi-million dollar corporation I gained some idea about the concept of money as a means of exchange, not as an non-productive means to make more money.

Money is not a commodity.

Ever looked at the COLA (cost of living adjustment) system as a percent increase of income, which makes it a "cost of lifestyle adjustment".....?

 

[Seattle]

That's kind of like saying that the early days of the United States were largely egalitarian--but nevermind women, slaves, and non-propertied white men, because that's not what you were talking about.

If the subject is being able to keep more of your money then those other things are not being talked about at the moment.

You seem to want to trash anything and everything about the U.S. That's fine, go for it.

That's not what I'm discussing. The healthcare system here is a problem. It's been a problem for me as well. The quality of life is good in some regards here and not in some regards. The same can be said of many other countries.

I could easily live in Australia or the UK for example but that's not what is being discussed or are we talking about their political leaders or their healthcare systems.

 

[Seattle]

Yes, as bookkeeper for a multi-million dollar corporation I have some idea about the concept of money as a means of exchange, not as an non-productive means to make more money.

Money is not a commodity.

Money is a commodity almost by definition. I'm sure you have some Marxist view on this but I'll refrain from commenting on that.

No one is making money with no risk. Without risk taking there are no companies, no jobs, no "growing' of the economy. If you want to encourage investing you do so with the tax codes, in part.

You don't agree. What's new?

 

[Write4U]

Money is a commodity almost by definition. I'm sure you have some Marxist view on this but I'll refrain from commenting on that.

No one is making money with no risk. Without risk taking there are no companies, no jobs, no "growing' of the economy. If you want to encourage investing you do so with the tax codes, in part.

You don't agree. What's new?

What is not new is that you don't have a clue of how the economy works. There is no risk for the top 1%.
When they lose money there is corporate welfare with tax-payers money to bail them out. Marxism seems to work well if you are very rich. You want a few examples of trillion dollar bail-outs?
When you're poor you have to live by the rules of Capitalism. i.e. can't afford your mortgage payment, you're out on the street!

Ever heard of the Halliburton Loophole?

Despite the widespread use of the practice, and the risks hydraulic fracturing poses to human health and safe drinking water supplies, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (“EPA”) does not regulate the injection of fracturing fluids under the Safe Drinking Water Act.

The oil and gas industry is the only industry in America that is allowed by EPA to inject known hazardous materials — unchecked — directly into or adjacent to underground drinking water supplies.

This exemption from the SDWA has become known as the “Halliburton loophole” because it is widely perceived to have come about as a result of the efforts of Vice President Dick Cheney’s Energy Task Force.

Before taking office, Cheney was CEO of Halliburton — which patented hydraulic fracturing in the 1940s, and remains one of the three largest manufacturers of fracturing fluids. Halliburton staff were actively involved in review of the 2004 EPA report on hydraulic fracturing.

https://earthworks.org/issues/inadequate_regulation_of_hydraulic_fracturing/

How is that for an investment risk assessment?

Long-term un-earned income is not income? I see, when you have to work for and earn your income you get the privilege of paying higer taxes? That's not Marxism, that's Capitalism.

 

[billvon]

Just as in natural selection.

Well, sort of, I guess. If you want to consider the US a displaced equilibrium that rewards rapid evolution but with a greater risk of (business) death that analogy sort of works - but it's not very congruent.

The caste system in India was successful for centuries. But was it humane?

Probably not. But that's a different axis - humane. And you will get as many opinions on that as there are posts on the Internet.

 

[billvon]

You do realize most money by the top 1 % is made on "unearned income" which is taxed at a lower rate than "earned income".

That's a silly distinction. You could as easily argue that a middle manager who shows up every day and does very little is making "unearned income" but an investor in a local business that is there every day trying to make the business succeed is "earned income" - even though they are taxed the opposite of that.

 

[Write4U]

You seem to want to trash anything and everything about the U.S. That's fine, go for it.

Am I trashing everything about the US? Another glib sales man's misdirection. Any criticism of the complete run-away unrestricted Capitalist system is a communist plot by freedom hating socialist Marxists, heh?

Maybe you should watch this little message from George Carlin.

 

[Seattle]

What is not new is that you don't have a clue of how the economy works. There is no risk for the top 1%.
When they lose money there is corporate welfare with tax-payers money to bail them out. Marxism seems to work well if you are very rich. You want a few examples of trillion dollar bail-outs?
When you're poor you have to live by the rules of Capitalism. i.e. can't afford your mortgage payment, you're out on the street!

Ever heard of the Halliburton Loophole? https://earthworks.org/issues/inadequate_regulation_of_hydraulic_fracturing/

How is that for an investment risk assessment?

Long-term un-earned income is not income? I see, when you have to work for and earn your income you get the privilege of paying higer taxes? That's not Marxism, that's Capitalism.

If you go to work and earn wages and use some of your discretionary income to buy some stocks and those stocks go up...you have already paid income taxes on that money. You took a risk by purchasing the stock, in went up and if you sell right away you will pay your ordinary income taxes.

If you keep it in the market (rather than day trading) in a year you will be taxed at 15%. You've already paid income tax when you earned it and you are now paying at lower tax on the gain if you keep it for a year to encourage investing. You are still paying taxes.

The only reason you have a problem with this is either you don't understand it or you don't own any stocks and your don't care if anyone else invests.

 

[Seattle]

Am I trashing everything about the US? Another glib sales man's misdirection. Any criticism of the complete run-away unrest ricted Capitalist system is a communist plot by freedom hating socialist Marxists, heh?

Maybe you should watch this little message from George Carlin.

That was a reference to Parmalee but get all riled up if you wish to.

 

[Write4U]

investor in a local business that is there every day trying to make the business succeed is "earned income

I am talking about the top 1 % , who do not show up at the office every morning. Their office is on the golf-course, where they make their deals.
I am specifically excluding anybody who "earns" a reasonable profit on a days hard work. That is called private ownership or "small business".

Unearned income is interest on money which is no longer part of the market economy.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I don’t think he resigned but wouldn’t blame him if he did.

What I recall was the following:

• Trump Jokes about security detail needed for Dr F.
• Dr F gets security detail and it is claimed in the media he has a target on his back...

Why would any one want to target Dr F? ( hey this is Trumps 'merica)
Suddenly with out proper explanation one of the only people that were providing rational and sane leadership, often conflicting with Trumps deluded agenda goes AWOL and MIA.
And so far he hasn't returned and probably will not return while Trump spews his nonsense into the worlds media stream and clandestinely threatens his opposition with violence.
I do not know how the FBI isn't involved and knee deep in this BS. Obviously Trumps corruption goes deep... very deep...

At a time of national crisis and tragedy the numbers of people lost and economic ruination because of Trumps inept leadership and the immediate threat of violence if he is in any way challenged is beyond staggering...it is utterly deplorable!!! IMO

 

[billvon]

I am talking about the top 1 % , who do not show up at the office every morning. Their office is on the golf-course, where they make their deals.

There's a whole lot of bias in what you just said - and that doesn't represent any of the 1% I know.

I am specifically excluding any body who "earns" a reasonable profit on a days hard work. That is called private ownwership or "small business".

I know people like that who are in the top 1%. One of them is worth over 1 billion. Another is worth 10 million or so, but I have no doubt that he will be worth over 1 billion one of these days.

Unearned income is interest on money which is no longer part of the market economy.

So money invested in startups is not "part of the market economy?" What an odd statement.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

One confirmed case in the town one hours drive from here so I am not leaving the van until my food runs out and after that it will be goanna or kangaroo stew for me.
Alex

 

[Write4U]

There's a whole lot of bias in what you just said - and that doesn't represent any of the 1% I know.

OK, not every billionaire is a greedy hog. There are several very wealthy persons who do indeed return some of their wealth into worthy social services.

I know people like that who are in the top 1%. One of them is worth over $1 billion. Another is worth 10 million or so, but I have no doubt that he will be worth over $1 billion one of these days.

We all do, because there are so few and their generosity is held as an example of good ole American Capitalist generosity

So money invested in startups is not "part of the market economy?" What an odd statement.

But that's not unearned income, also known "passive income". In my book income by any other name is income and should be taxed like all other income.

What Is Unearned Income?
Unearned income is income from investments and other sources unrelated to employment. Examples of unearned income include interest from savings accounts, bond interest, alimony, and dividends from stock.1 2 Unearned income, known as a passive source of income, is income not acquired through work.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unearnedincome.asp

Any other excuse used to lower taxes on any kind of income is just a sales job by "lobbyists", the exclusive salesmen who's offices are in the halls of congress, where they service their accounts, quid pro quo.

Remember the great bail-out where the government doled out a trillion dollars without any guarantees, which ended up as corporate bonuses paid to CEOs as reward for a sales job "well done", while millions of people lost their retirement savings and their homes.

There is no excusing such behavior, no matter how you look at it.
I'll never forget one of Trump's declarations that he made profit on every one of his bankruptcies, because "he could".