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billvon said:
How so? Tesla, Apple, Qualcomm, SpaceX and Google are far from delusions. Such opportunities to excel certainly exist in other countries - but seem to concentrate here. (As does the risk of failure.)
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Excelling is not just about the capacity to throw vast amounts of money around...
It is true that top USA companies excel ....but companies are shareholder based yes?
Out of 370 million people you would expect some quality outcomes surely...
but on a per capita basis the USA is about 30%+ under par...

Are you referring to USA citizens or international citizenry?
 
billvon said:
How so? Tesla, Apple, Qualcomm, SpaceX and Google are far from delusions. Such opportunities to excel certainly exist in other countries - but seem to concentrate here. (As does the risk of failure.)
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Sure, and in most European countries, grants and suchlike are abundantly available for artists, musicians, writers, and so forth. That is very much not the case in the U.S. Are you considering "excel(ling)" only with respect to sciences and tech, or are you alleging that American artists, composers, writers are somehow superior?
 
Quantum Quack said:
Excelling is not just about the capacity to throw vast amounts of money around...
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Definitely agreed there. That's why I used examples of companies that have revolutionized industries, rather than companies that made a lot of money.
It is true that top USA companies excel ....but companies are shareholder based yes?
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Most are, yes.
Out of 370 million people you would expect some quality outcomes surely...
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Right. But also some spectacular failures. Witness our huge issue with income inequality.
 
parmalee said:
Sure, and in most European countries, grants and suchlike are abundantly available for artists, musicians, writers, and so forth. That is very much not the case in the U.S. Are you considering "excel(ling)" only with respect to sciences and tech
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I am considering companies that cause sea changes in industries.
or are you alleging that American artists, composers, writers are somehow superior?
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Not at all.
 
billvon said:
Not at all. Those are just the industries I am most familiar with.
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Hardly everything is an "industry" in the sense of which you speak though--and Seattle made no such specifications with regards to matters of "excel(ling)."
(Yes, everything is in a sense an "industry," but you know what I mean.)

And with respect to education/universities: apart from STEMs, no one is coming to the U.S. anymore to study any of the liberal arts; in fact, a lot of smaller universities and colleges have either dissolved or merged certain fields and departments/centers, simply because the funding isn't there anymore.
 
billvon said:
No one has exactly equal opportunities. But overall there is more opportunity here. (And to balance that out, more risk of failure.)
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Just as in natural selection. Only a small percentage survives to procreate successfully. The rest are relegated to lower tiers of existence or go extinct altogether.

The caste system in India was successful for centuries. But was it humane?
 
Write4U said:
But was it humane?
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Probably not so much although folk would have a sense of belonging from an early age. When I was a kid the predominant thing was the son followed the trade of the father.

An aside...
I think there is an interesting difference between say Australians and Americans, at the risk of gross generalisation...however here you have a few beers with your mates and discuss wild ideas, like building a motor bike with forty eight cylinders that can't be ridden, well we wake up the next day sober and laugh at what a crazy idea it was, whereas in the USA they have sourced the parts by lunchtime and welding the frame in the afternoon....and yes there is a forty eight cylinder motor bike and yes you can't ride it and yes it's not the only example of building crazy stuff.
Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Probably not so much although folk would have a sense of belonging from an early age. When I was a kid the predominant thing was the son followed the trade of the father.

An aside...
I think there is an interesting difference between say Australians and Americans, at the risk of gross generalisation...however here you have a few beers with your mates and discuss wild ideas, like building a motor bike with forty eight cylinders that can't be ridden, well we wake up the next day sober and laugh at what a crazy idea it was, whereas in the USA they have sourced the parts by lunchtime and welding the frame in the afternoon....and yes there is a forty eight cylinder motor bike and yes you can't ride it and yes it's not the only example of building crazy stuff.
Alex
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lol
 
Seattle said:
iceaura said:
The cost of living is higher than in almost all other highly ranked countries.
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Relate that to purchasing power (for it to have any meaning) and it's not even close for most countries.
https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php
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From the world data link:
Quality of life in relation to cost of living
In the search for a potential adopted country, the cost of living usually has the highest priority. However, other factors such as medical care or political stability should also be taken into account. In a further evaluation we compare numerous factors of different countries in order to derive a ranking for the quality of life.
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So basically, a television costs a good bit more in Scandinavian countries; however, people often need things like healthcare and education in order to survive in the first place. Given that such are mostly free everywhere else, whereas a couple of weeks in a hospital in the U.S. can cost you a half million dollars--unless, of course, they turn you away (which has happened to me several times in the past)--lets relate that to "quality of life."

https://www.worlddata.info/quality-of-life.php

U.S. is number 31--well below most of Europe, Australia, NZ, and Canada.
 
parmalee said:
Sure, and in most European countries, grants and suchlike are abundantly available for artists, musicians, writers, and so forth. That is very much not the case in the U.S. Are you considering "excel(ling)" only with respect to sciences and tech, or are you alleging that American artists, composers, writers are somehow superior?
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Why are you being so silly?

The excelling was in regard to economics. Being able to earn more and to keep more of your own money. No one is talking about U.S. artists being "better" than anyone else.

No one is talking about Australia not being a good place to live. I'm not even arguing the the U.S. has the best quality of living. We were talking about someone (potentially) being poor and being able to become wealthy or "well to do" if they were so motivated.

Again, a silly argument about liberal arts programs going out of business or whatever you are talking about. No one else is talking about this (at the moment).

As Billvon alluded to, you have the opportunity to succeed or to fail here. It's not about being "exceedingly" wealthy or whether the companies are owned by shareholders. What does that have to do with anything?

You guys are just arguing to argue.
 
Seattle said:
Why are you being so silly?

The excelling was in regard to economics. Being able to earn more and to keep more of your own money. No one is talking about U.S. artists being "better" than anyone else.

No one is talking about Australia not being a good place to live. I'm not even arguing the the U.S. has the best quality of living. We were talking about someone (potentially) being poor and being able to become wealthy or "well to do" if they were so motivated.
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OK. That's already been addressed on the previous page--post #887. Now, provide a citation for your contention.
 
parmalee said:
From the world data link:


So basically, a television costs a good bit more in Scandinavian countries; however, people often need things like healthcare and education in order to survive in the first place. Given that such are mostly free everywhere else, whereas a couple of weeks in a hospital in the U.S. can cost you a half million dollars--unless, of course, they turn you away (which has happened to me several times in the past)--lets relate that to "quality of life."

https://www.worlddata.info/quality-of-life.php

U.S. is number 31--well below most of Europe, Australia, NZ, and Canada.
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I made no argument about quality of life and I certainly didn't defend the health care system.
 
Seattle said:
The excelling was in regard to economics. Being able to earn more and to keep more of your own money. No one is talking about U.S. artists being "better" than anyone else.
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Does that include being better at "making money on money" without producing a consumer product?
You do realize most money by the top 1 % is made on "unearned income" which is taxed at a lower rate than "earned income".
 
parmalee said:
Here's but one of tens of thousands of pieces that fully supports my contention:

https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2017/09/08/the-cost-of-the-american-dream

Just do a basic google search for more info than you could possibly read in a lifetime <<<--better yet, read a book.

Now, show me something that supports your contention--"I live here" doesn't cut it.
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This isn't a "study". It's just an article when someone wants to argue that their opinion. Billvon was in agreement with what I actually stated. You disagree with him as well.

I'm not going to start citing articles that agree or disagree with an opinion. We aren't even arguing about the same things apparently. You and QQ agree that U.S. do well but then you start to talk about quality of life, whether we are saying a U.S. artist is better than anyone else. All nonsense.

Arguing about the meaning of "excel". I'm not saying anything earth shaking. There are less impediments here than in many countries to keeping economic gains.
 
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