Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

[Quantum Quack]

Where you live has a lot of impact on how the situation is being dealt with. Here in PA we have been shut down since March 13 but the numbers are still going up.
I went to the local grocery today. They have really been proactive in halting transmission and helping customers. The manager posts on facebook when the deliveries come and what has been shipped. They provide wipes, gloves, and masks if you want them as well as keeping some items in reserve for seniors and medical workers.
On the other hand some were complaining that people are getting take out and sitting at the picnic tables to eat.
Some how we will manage to survive this.
Keep your distance.

that sounds like the best way to run a supermarket!
Creates a safer environment, and fulfills the obligation to staff and customers. ( to the best available)
Safe customers would generally spend more and make more referrals as well... so the masks and other costs will return a profit easily.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I think that's an overstatement. There is extreme wealth in the U.S. and there is some poverty. There's not a lot of "extreme poverty".

This is more equality of opportunity here than equality of results for sure. In other words there isn't a great standard of living that is guaranteed to you here.

There isn't a lot of extreme poverty however. It's hard to be in the top 1% here but it isn't hard to be in the top 10% in terms of assets if that's a goal for someone. If you are a college grad just coming out of school the median salary is about $50k.

It's not hard to have a family income of $100k after a few years. Combine that with the cost of living being lower than in many other highly ranked countries and there is little to complain about in reality.

Moving around can solve most issues. If you want a big house, don't live in the biggest cities. If you want more income, move to a bigger city. If you don't have any education, get some.

Beyond a certain dollar amount your quality of life doesn't really get any better so just because someone can make hundreds of millions of dollars doesn't mean you are missing anything if you don't.

Living in a mansion isn't better than living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood in a nice city. Less than a million in assets will get that for you and a family income of $100 k or so.

One of the key , often not talked about, reasons for having an income safety net and basic health safety net is to minimize the number of crimes committed due to desperation.
When you factor in the cost of crime in the USA and the cost of health care to the individual that nations real wealth is hidden by illusionary fairy floss.

 

[Seattle]

One of the key , often not talked about, reasons for having an income safety net and basic health safety net is to minimize the number of crimes committed due to desperation.
When you factor in the cost of crime in the USA and the cost of health care to the individual that nations real wealth is hidden by illusionary fairy floss.

Those are certainly valid points. Crime is highly localized in the U.S. however. They health care system is a problem to be improved.

 

[iceaura]

Crime is highly localized in the U.S. however. They health care system is a problem to be improved.

The cost of crime is not as highly localized.
The US health care system cannot be replaced until the Republican Party has been marginalized or dismantled.

The curve will flatten eventually no matter what we do.

No, it won't.
The country will move to flatter positions on whatever curve it follows - what we do will determine what curve we follow.

This is more equality of opportunity here than equality of results for sure.

There is less equality of opportunity than in most other First World countries.

It's hard to be in the top 1% here but it isn't hard to be in the top 10% in terms of assets if that's a goal for someone.

It's impossible for 90% of the population.

Beyond a certain dollar amount your quality of life doesn't really get any better

Most people are nowhere near that dollar amount, and have little realistic chance of attaining it.

Combine that with the cost of living being lower than in many other highly ranked countries and there is little to complain about in reality.

The cost of living is higher than in almost all other highly ranked countries.

In other words there isn't a great standard of living that is guaranteed to you here.

There isn't a guaranteed minimum standard of living either.
Risk and uncertainty are costs.

At the moment, people were everywhere, stores, malls, etc. Good luck Singapore.

In places that have border control, adequate testing, and rigorous contact tracing, general lockdowns are not necessary - they can lock down the people and areas of infection, instead, for the same and greater benefit.
- - - -

Often, true incompetence does not reveal itself until there is a crisis.

In Trump's case - and the Republican Party's generally - the revelatory crises happened repeatedly over the past forty five years or so. Trump was obviously unfit for the Presidency from his first mob-connected bankruptcy on - even before he hooked up with the Russian oligarchs. His campaign in 2016 simply highlighted the obvious fact.

 

[Seattle]

No, it won't.
The country will move to flatter positions on whatever curve it follows - what we do will determine what curve we follow.

Which is what I said. You added the embellishment of which curve. I only stated the curve will flatten as did you.

There is less equality of opportunity than in most other First World countries.

Not true. There is more opportunity to be average in many other countries. There is not more to excel.

It's impossible for 90% of the population.

Only statistically and after the fact. It's certainly not impossible for more than the current 20% to do well.

Most people are nowhere near that dollar amount, and have little realistic chance of attaining it.

Most people have the same chance that those who do reach it had.

The cost of living is higher than in almost all other highly ranked countries.

Relate that to purchasing power (for it to have any meaning) and it's not even close for most countries.
https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php

 

[parmalee]

Not true. There is more opportunity to be average in many other countries. There is not more to excel.

So those whose rich parents didn't send them to prep schools and pay for their elite university educations have equal opportunities? Those who actually have to worry about being bankrupted by medical bills and those who can't even get treatment, in the first place, have equal opportunities? ...

This could go on for hours, days, weeks, and that's only addressing the vast economic disparities--then there's matters of gender, race, and so forth.

Where do you get this nonsense? Can you cite even a single study that supports your contention that Americans have comparatively "equal opportunities," with respect to any other affluent nation?

 

[Seattle]

So those whose rich parents didn't send them to prep schools and pay for their elite university educations have equal opportunities? Those who actually have to worry about being bankrupted by medical bills and those who can't even get treatment, in the first place, have equal opportunities? ...

This could go on for hours, days, weeks, and that's only addressing the vast economic disparities--then there's matters of gender, race, and so forth.

Where do you get this nonsense? Can you cite even a single study that supports your contention that Americans have comparatively "equal opportunities," with respect to any other affluent nation?

I live here. You can feel free to cite studies showing that I'm not correct.

Most people that I know who are well off didn't start off that way. I'm not even talking about the billionaires (most of those are self-made as well). I also know many people who left countries that provide a better guaranteed middle class income to come to the U.S. where they could do better (or worse) depending on their own initiative.

Most people can go to college here if they want to and most people will be worth a million dollars by retirement age (if they chose to) just by buying a house and putting some money in the stock market.

They can do that because too much of their money isn't taken away from them by the government each year to support those who aren't so motivated.

I'm not saying it doesn't have a downside (like everything) but there is generally more opportunity to "get ahead" here if you are so inclined.

 

[parmalee]

I live here. You can feel free to cite studies showing that I'm not correct.

Here's but one of tens of thousands of pieces that fully supports my contention:

Richer parents can afford to send their children to better schools and colleges and can offer financial support for housing and other expenses. For these and a host of other reasons, where and to whom you are born is a significant determinant of life outcomes, especially in America. Miles Corak of the University of Ottawa reports that it is possible to predict nearly 50% of the variation in wages of sons in the United States by looking at the wages of their fathers a generation before. That compares to less than 20% in relatively egalitarian countries like Finland, Norway and Denmark. In America, more than half of sons born to fathers in the top decile of incomes fall no further than the eighth decile themselves, while only about half of those born to bottom decile father rise higher than the third decile.

https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2017/09/08/the-cost-of-the-american-dream

Just do a basic google search for more info than you could possibly read in a lifetime <<<--better yet, read a book.

Now, show me something that supports your contention--"I live here" doesn't cut it.

 

[river]

I just thought some might interested in the Virology of this virus , and the reaserch that is going on about this virus.
river said: ↑

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200402144526.htm

 

[billvon]

So those whose rich parents didn't send them to prep schools and pay for their elite university educations have equal opportunities?

Well, sometimes it takes more than one generation. (Or to be more accurate, to do it one generation you have to be REALLY exceptional.)

Those who actually have to worry about being bankrupted by medical bills and those who can't even get treatment, in the first place, have equal opportunities? ...

No one has exactly equal opportunities. But overall there is more opportunity here. (And to balance that out, more risk of failure.)

 

[parmalee]

No one has exactly equal opportunities. But overall there is more opportunity here. (And to balance that out, more risk of failure.)

Compared with other prosperous first world nations, there is not more opportunity in the U.S.--that's been pretty well established.

Also, we need to distinguish "opportunity to excel" (which is what Seattle claims above) from the "opportunity to make a shitload of money." It's possible, all things considered (taxation, etc.), that one might have more opportunity to become exceedingly rich in the U.S., but so what? Those are two entirely different ends, and largely, mutually exclusive--at least, as far as aspirations go. Have you ever met someone who had a desire to excel in a certain field or fields, who also had a desire to become exceedingly rich? I certainly haven't.

 

[billvon]

Also, we need to distinguish "opportunity to excel" (which is what Seattle claims above) from the "opportunity to make a shitload of money." It's possible, all things considered (taxation, etc.), that one might have more opportunity to become exceedingly rich in the U.S., but so what?

?? OK. I guess you can also say that there is more opportunity to excel here, but again - so what?

 

[parmalee]

?? OK. I guess you can also say that there is more opportunity to excel here, but again - so what?

Compared to which "first world" country? Keeping in mind that post-secondary education is pretty much free in every other country.

 

[billvon]

Compared to which "first world" country?

I wasn't comparing them. I was asking "so what?"

 

[parmalee]

I wasn't comparing them. I was asking "so what?"

??

Let's back up: Do you agree with Seattle's contention that in the U.S. there is more equality of opportunity, than in other prosperous nations?

 

[billvon]

Let's back up: Do you agree with Seattle's contention that in the U.S. there is more equality of opportunity, than in other prosperous nations?

I think there is more opportunity to excel (and more risk of failure) than in other countries.

 

[parmalee]

I think there is more opportunity to excel (and more risk of failure) than in other countries.

How are you defining "more" here, or "excel," for that matter? Are there more opportunities for people from any background?

 

[Quantum Quack]

There are a number of significant concerns regarding the stats at the moment.
For me they are:
1/ the fact that the recovery rate is in rapid decline and even after taking into account the recent surge of cases being recorded in the USA it appears that people are not recovering at a rate that was earlier suggested by the stats.
Currently :
Global:
1,337,560 Confirmed cases
74,206 Fatalities (5.55%)
277,757 Recovered (20.77%)
-------------
985,597 Unresolved (73.69% of confirmed cases)
With in the unresolved we have
46,532 severely, critically ill (3.48% of confirmed cases)
939,065 less than serious or critical at present. (70.21% of confirmed cases)

Also the incidence of community transmission that can not be tracked is finally being recognized as significant by the Australian Government and no doubt others.
Why they and others thought that community transmission wasn't present from the get go is is beyond my comprehension... (Other than that they were underestimating this situation terribly)

2/ There are indications that suggest the claimed estimated incubation period is very unrealistic and may be much longer in some than 4-21 days.

3/ The incidence on Cruise Ships, military ships, even with strict quarantine controls fails to be reigned in. Indicating the extent of silent community transmission and long incubation periods.

4/ The emotional state of the patient appears to be significantly implicated in the outcome. In particular fear and anxiety.
5/ Total economic failure is most likely after 6 months ( September) if nations do not seriously adapt their industries to the ongoing presence of COVID-19 in the community.
6/ COVID-19 appears to be mutating and not only in regards to zoonotic but that it is verging on becoming airborne. Infecting droplet size is apparently reducing.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I think there is more opportunity to excel (and more risk of failure) than in other countries.

per capita... that is utter nonsense..and typical of the delusional, and arrogant mind set of many in the USA.

Edit: Sorry, this post was mainly directed to Seattle..

 

[billvon]

per capita... that is utter nonsense..and typical of the delusional mind set in the USA.

How so? Tesla, Apple, Qualcomm, SpaceX and Google are far from delusions. Such opportunities to excel certainly exist in other countries - but seem to concentrate here. (As does the risk of failure.)