Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

[exchemist]

I was only agreeing with you and justifying why I do, and you shove it in my face as a non-sequitur. lol.

I said the reported numbers of confirmed cases and recoveries were meaningless. You replied:

" In Australia we have only 7 deaths yet our Government is investing about 10% of GDP with more to come, locking down the entire nation, putting millions out of work, forcing residents to stay home, policing the empty streets ...
Why do you think they are doing that? Just because we have 7 deaths? I don't think so...."

How is that agreeing with what I said?

 

[Quantum Quack]

I said the reported numbers of confirmed cases and recoveries were meaningless. You replied:

" In Australia we have only 7 deaths yet our Government is investing about 10% of GDP with more to come, locking down the entire nation, putting millions out of work, forcing residents to stay home, policing the empty streets ...
Why do you think they are doing that? Just because we have 7 deaths? I don't think so...."

How is that agreeing with what I said?

Put in in context with your original post and all the other subsequent posts and it will make sense to you.

These numbers, apart from the deaths, are meaningless.

The number of confirmed cases bears no relation to the number of actual infections, since most cases are not being tested. The same applies to the "recovered" figure, since not all those testing +ve are followed up later, to confirm they are clear.

It is not the case that there are "about 198,387 cases in the world". There will be untold millions of them by now. And the idea of determining a "recovery rate" from these figures is absurd.

If one wants to determine mortality or recovery rate one needs a population fully screened, with full contact tracing and follow-up of each case. I'not sure even the Swiss can do that.

To give contrasting examples, the apparent "mortality rate" in Germany is about 0.3%, whereas in Italy the apparent rate is over 5%.

I responded with agreement and explanation including examples and topic expansion..

Now you can either discuss your egocentric complaint or discuss the issue at hand... your choice...
You claimed that the fatality figure was the only one confirmed and I claimed to the contrary.
The death figure is easy to data fudge because the specific nature of the death certificate's/death data cause of death may not reflect the implication of COVID-19.
Therefore the fatalities associated with COVID-19 may be many orders greater than declared.

 

[billvon]

of course... duh!
I only mention the issue to prove my point. 7 deaths only and yet such a drastic set of responses from the Government tell you that data available for public digestion is chronically understated.

No, it doesn't. Intelligent people can learn from other's mistakes (like Italy and the US.) They don't need to make those mistakes themselves.

Also the inability to explain why testing is not being done more widely when such draconian restrictions have been put in place.

Do they have the test kits to be able to test everyone?

Rumor has it that there is a severe shortage of the chemicals needed to do the test kits . . . .

There ya go.

 

[Quantum Quack]

No, it doesn't. Intelligent people can learn from other's mistakes (like Italy and the US.) They don't need to make those mistakes themselves.

Do they have the test kits to be able to test everyone?

There ya go.

yep...there ya go...

 

[Quantum Quack]

No, it doesn't. Intelligent people can learn from other's mistakes (like Italy and the US.) They don't need to make those mistakes themselves.

are you suggesting that our politicians are intelligent? LOL....( falls over and has to pick himself off the floor)
Seriously though, the proof is in the pudding as to learning from past mistakes...

 

[billvon]

are you suggesting that our politicians are intelligent?

In this case, sounds like they might be.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Test Kit production and volume:

China[121] and the United States[122] had problems with the reliability of test kits early in the outbreak, and these countries and Australia[123] were unable to supply enough kits to satisfy demand and recommendations for testing by health experts. In contrast, experts say South Korea's broad availability of testing helped reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. Testing capacity, largely in private sector labs, was built up over several years by the South Korean government.[124] On 16 March, the World Health Organization called for ramping up the testing programmes as the best way to slow the advance of Covid-19 pandemic.[125][126]

"Testing has to happen, it is the priority. The problem is low-income countries are probably arriving on the third wave, after China, after Europe. Access to tests is going to be problematic," said Karl Blanchet, director of the Centre for Education and Research in Humanitarian Action. While many richer countries were currently focused on their own populations and economies, the humanitarian community would have to look at changing the way it works, by investing in the strengthening of worldwide public health systems rather than focusing on single-issue campaigns
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing​

In this case, sounds like they might be.

I am sure they are doing the best they can with in the complexity of all their priorities... In fact I am totally impressed by our Federal Government and State Governments (Au) behavior given the gravity of their decisions.
For example:
It makes sense to put the population in lock down ( shelter in place) while they get their act together regarding testing regimes.
This would only happen if they had data that suggested the tremendous need to do so.
Once they have a baseline to work with the isolation controls can be modified to be more sustainable, for surely they are unsustainable at present.
Mass production of low density cloth masks for the general population is one such priority. This would free up hospital grade masks for medical services.

 

[billvon]

It makes sense to put the population in lock down ( shelter in place) while they get their act together regarding testing regimes.
This would only happen if they had data that suggested the tremendous need to do so.

Agree 100%. They are probably looking at the same data we all are:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[Quantum Quack]

Agree 100%. They are probably looking at the same data we all are:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Thanks for the link and head up
The WHO sit rep has lost relevance due to the speed of change.
and JHU lacks regular updating and fails to provide the detail.

 

[arfa brane]

Along the lines of something not seen every day, a line of shoppers sort-of keeping away from each other outside the local gun shop, which will be closed tomorrow for four weeks.



I'd say this is what the guy in the blue sweater is thinking

 

[Quantum Quack]

"The pandemic is accelerating," Tedros said. "It took 67 days from the first reported case to reach the first 100,000 cases, 11 days for the second 100,000 cases and just four days for the third 100,000 cases."
​

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...tions-must-attack-as-pandemic-is-accelerating

That's
1st 100,000 in 67 days
2nd 100,000 in 11 days
3rd 100,000 in 4 days

How quick the next 100,000?

 

[Quantum Quack]

I wonder how societies that have a solid citizen ID card compare with those that do not regarding viral growth, tracking and testing etc?

 

[parmalee]

Some more... curious details on the Republican corporate bailout bill:

Also, the Republicans’ plan to divvy out checks has been criticized for screwing over low-income earners. Those who earn more than $ 2,500 will get, at minimum, $ 600. As taxable income increases, so will the amount of the check until it reaches $ 75,000. At that point, the amount decreases until it reaches $ 99,000, at which point a person gets nothing.

That means a person whose taxable income is $ 75,000 will get a larger check than someone who makes $ 30,000.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/coronavirus-us-bailout-what-you-need-to-know

So a 600 dollar checque is supposed to tide people over 'til... who knows when? What the fuck?! Whereas those in significantly less dire straits get more?!

And further evidence that obtaining a high school diploma in a Red State is roughly equivalent to graduating from preschool anyplace else:

“I want them to have a shot at the American Dream but right now there’s a virus which all the experts say that 98 percent of all people will survive... is killing our country in another way,” (Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick's) text continued. “It could bring about a total economic collapse and potentially a collapse of our society. So I say let’s give this a few more days or weeks but after that, let’s go back to work and go back to living. Those we want to shelter in place can still do so but we can’t live with uncertainty.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas...-willing-to-die-to-save-economy-for-grandkids

And finally, more wisdom from the Serial Rapist in Chief:

Trump expressed an openness to scaling back his efforts to combat contagion.Writing in capital letters in a tweet late on Sunday, the US president said: “We cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself. At the end of the 15-day period” – of White House guidelines to enforce physical distancing and other measures which began on 16 March – “we will make a decision as to which way we want to go.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...stancing-coronavirus-rules-guidelines-economy

Oh, yeah, and what happened to Dr. Fauci?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dr-fauci-coronavirus-white-house_n_5e794b6ec5b63c3b6495dc76

Has his employment already been terminated?

These... "people" are fucking garbage, but with any luck, perhaps the coronavirus will take care of a significant number of them? And sure, many undoubtedly find it gauche or antisocial to wish death upon so-called people, but these sorts--Republicans, to be clear--pose a genuine, and quite literal, existential threat (well, for some small percentage, at least). So, please kindly explain to me why I shouldn't wish a pox upon them. Actually, death by any means would be fine by me.

A serious question: What can be done about it? Speaking truth to power, countering lies-idiocy-and-bullshit with facts, and expressing one's disapproval come election time ain't gonna cut it here--we, literally, haven't the time. So?

 

[parmalee]

A woman from Arizona warned people not to trust President Donald Trump after her husband died from ingesting chloroquine phosphate, which shares an active ingredient with a drug the president has been touting.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/03/do...usband-dies-trying-to-take-drug-trump-touted/

Do we need a separate counter to chart the exponential growth of those specifically killed/murdered by Trump's idiocy?

 

[geordief]

but something new. Between lunch and dinner, my sense of taste and smell disappeared: anosmia. I noticed when cooking dinner that I had no idea how it smelled, even the raw garlic. Unusually, this has occurred in spite of no blockage or discomfort in nose or sinuses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0324/1126045-smell-taste-covid/
Seems like that is a weapon in the fight against infecting colleagues and others.Reduce the disease's potency to spread among hosts.

 

[Quantum Quack]

General info

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0324/1126045-smell-taste-covid/
Seems like that is a weapon in the fight against infecting colleagues and others.Reduce the disease's potency to spread among hosts.

regarding your questions about preventative oral measures ie. salt wash etc.
I received a video audio only file from a Australian nurse who received it from a colleague in Taipei who interpreted it from a message from another colleague in Wuhan China. I am unable to easily down load it as a file and would have to create an analogue play back copy if I wanted to share off face book. I have since validated it by checking in with other medical people and consider it's message to be credible.

My take:
The author stated that one of the most important preventative measures a person can take in a viral hot zone is to maintain mouth moisture ( increased salivation ) by using warm to hot water ( drinks ) sipped regularly every 20 minutes or so etc.
The ration-al is that the moisture ( saliva ) in the mouth traps the virus when it enters and swallowing of that saliva allows the virus to be digested ( consumed ) via the digestion system, thus killed.

So...
Anything that traps the virus in the mouth and prevents it getting access to the respiratory system ( including throat ) has proved very beneficial.

The other thing mentioned is that if the virus gains access to the respiratory system the throat is typically impacted prior to the virus making it's way into the lungs.
So....
If you experience a sore throat, then this needs to be attacked/treated with some urgency to prevent the virus from progressing to the bronchial tubes and lungs generally. ( time is of an essence)

Once the virus gets into the bronchial tubes and lungs, the tubes and lungs will start an immune response that produces mucus that due to the sore throat and failure of the overwhelmed bronchial cilia can not be expelled via coughing ( dry cough). The mucus then quickly solidifies in the lungs, preventing air flow and viral pneumonia becomes the issue. Forced opening the air ways implicated becomes necessary to provide treatment. ( the use of respirators and mechanical pumps etc.)

Summary:
As a way of minimizing the progress of the virus to the lungs it is highly recommended to maintain mouth moisture. A dry mouth at any time is a no no.
Sipping warm water often stimulates the flow of saliva and this moisture is digested upon swallowing.
Adding salt or other to the warm water is in itself ineffective but may stimulate saliva flow.

Key points:

• The virus is destroyed by digestion - swallow often
• Increase saliva flow into the mouth so that it can be swallowed and digested.

I hope this may be useful...

 

[Quantum Quack]

Do we need a separate counter to chart the exponential growth of those specifically killed/murdered by Trump's idiocy?

It's a good point even if a tad blunt...
It is utterly unbelievable that Trump has declared to the USA people in televised addresses that he intends to work to an Easter deadline for ending the crisis. Pure narcissistic BS.

The amount of confusion he has now generated undermines just about every message the medial profession has been attempting to get out.
The false hope that this fool has generated is grossly negligent.
He doesn't seem to understand that the nation or individual quarantine zones have to be new infection case free for at least 30 days before confidence to end the Q strategy can be gained for that Nation or quarantine zone. Any slip up means that the quarantine strategy must be extended.
What he has doing is virtually guaranteeing the ongoing economic implications. He is actually destroying any possibility of containment and will inevitably lead to almost total economic failure and countless deaths that he in his sheer stupidity is attempting to prevent.

Seriously mind boggling that he is being allowed to do this...

He just may have well signed the death certificate of the USA all because he wishes to talk up the stock market...and create a profit taking environment. ( fairy floss ) IMO
He has made a decision that money is more important than the lives that make the money.

Fortunately the individual states can totally ignore him.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is planning to abandon his post and seek asylum in Russia...

 

[geordief]

General info

regarding your questions about preventative oral measures ie. salt wash etc.
I received a video audio only file from a Australian nurse who received it from a colleague in Taipei who interpreted it from a message from another colleague in Wuhan China. I am unable to easily down load it as a file and would have to create an analogue play back copy if I wanted to share off face book. I have since validated it by checking in with other medical people and consider it's message to be credible.

My take:
The author stated that one of the most important preventative measures a person can take in a viral hot zone is to maintain mouth moisture ( increased salivation ) by using warm to hot water ( drinks ) sipped regularly every 20 minutes or so etc.
The ration-al is that the moisture ( saliva ) in the mouth traps the virus when it enters and swallowing of that saliva allows the virus to be digested ( consumed ) via the digestion system, thus killed.

So...
Anything that traps the virus in the mouth and prevents it getting access to the respiratory system ( including throat ) has proved very beneficial.

The other thing mentioned is that if the virus gains access to the respiratory system the throat is typically impacted prior to the virus making it's way into the lungs.
So....
If you experience a sore throat, then this needs to be attacked/treated with some urgency to prevent the virus from progressing to the bronchial tubes and lungs generally. ( time is of an essence)

Once the virus gets into the bronchial tubes and lungs, the tubes and lungs will start an immune response that produces mucus that due to the sore throat and failure of the overwhelmed bronchial cilia can not be expelled via coughing ( dry cough). The mucus then quickly solidifies in the lungs, preventing air flow and viral pneumonia becomes the issue. Forced opening the air ways implicated becomes necessary to provide treatment. ( the use of respirators and mechanical pumps etc.)

Summary:
As a way of minimizing the progress of the virus to the lungs it is highly recommended to maintain mouth moisture. A dry mouth at any time is a no no.
Sipping warm water often stimulates the flow of saliva and this moisture is digested upon swallowing.
Adding salt or other to the warm water is in itself ineffective but may stimulate saliva flow.

Key points:

• The virus is destroyed by digestion - swallow often
• Increase saliva flow into the mouth so that it can be swallowed and digested.

I hope this may be useful...

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/...drinking-water-keep-you-safe-from-coronavirus

Well the BBC has been saying this is more or less nonsense.

Mind you ,I expect I will try to avoid a dry mouth out of an abundance of caution (although that cannot be prevented at night unless you breathe through your nose at all times in your sleep,which I don't always do (esp if I have a cold or a blocked nose)

 

[billvon]

The author stated that one of the most important preventative measures a person can take in a viral hot zone is to maintain mouth moisture ( increased salivation ) by using warm to hot water ( drinks ) sipped regularly every 20 minutes or so etc.
The ration-al is that the moisture ( saliva ) in the mouth traps the virus when it enters and swallowing of that saliva allows the virus to be digested ( consumed ) via the digestion system, thus killed.

Great theory! No proof, but fun. Love to hear where the "hot water" thing came from, given that viruses evolved to live in 98 degree environments.

I heard one that stated that dogs can infect you, so if you want to stay healthy, get rid of your dogs. I understand there are lots of ways to put them down.