Conversion to atheist Judaism?
- Thread starter S.A.M.
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WTH is atheist judaism?
Flippant remark but great nonetheless.
Judaism is a religion with a god. Atheists do not believe in gods. So, atheist Judaism is a contradiction in terms.
The same cannot be said for "atheist Jew", of course. I'll leave you to ponder why.
Not all Jews follow Judaism?
I have always wondered why they made such a fuss of the holocaust ...
So if a person wants to convert to Judaism but remain an atheist, how would he go about that? Can he first decide to be religious, do the whole religion shebang, get the degree then once inside the clubhouse, drop the religious cover and announce atheism?
Is that person who adopted religious Judaism then became an atheist, still a Jew?
Is that person who adopted religious Judaism then became an atheist, still a Jew?
Google makes for an excellent servant.
Try "atheist Jew," and "atheist Christian"for comparison.
http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Jew
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Atheist Jew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
http://www.atheistchristian.com/
Try "atheist Jew," and "atheist Christian"for comparison.
http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Jew
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Atheist Jew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
http://www.atheistchristian.com/
If they don't believe in God, why do they insist on framing themselves by theistic beliefs?
You cannot follow Jesus teachings and not be a Christian. Jesus taught chiefly and mainly about God.
The problem of course is that atheism is an empty bucket, becoming an atheist means you have nothing to follow. So they simply make do with whats available from the religion they no longer subscribe to and claim it is an "identity". And thats fine, but its disingenuous to say I'm a cultural Jew or I'm a cultural Christian when their core beliefs are unpalatable to you but you still want to enjoy the benefits that go with belonging to the community.
These people are hijacking religion and pretending to be a part of the community, but essentially they are just people who have nothing else to call their own.
(I added some more links in the above post.)
They do not consider those beliefs to be theistic, I guess.
This is not true - in the sense that one cannot but have some position. Atheism theoretically claims to have "no beliefs in God", but practically, this is impossible.
From Wiki:
“We cannot identify anything which will count for or against the truth of our statements concerning ‘God’”. -- this is a position.
I myself am struggling with this. I'll have to ask for some help on this.
True. I think it comes down to common decency and philosophical skills.
Namely, I think the "death of God" movement and related have brought the philosophical questions concerning the nature of God and belief in God to a point where they could not answer them in a way that would satisfy them anymore, nor did they have the faith to put those questions aside as unimportant enough.
Peple in general have the tendency that when they reach the end of their wits in some matter, they declare the matter to be impossible to resolve, ever, by anyone, by any effort (like Van Buren above), or they declare the matter to be unimportant or irrelevant.
In my opinion, these are just impermanent positions, though, and that will shift in time.
In essence, there is an element of taking responsibility for one's philosophical reasoning as well, but it seems this is not as common as "taking responsibility for one's actions".
They do not consider those beliefs to be theistic, I guess.
This is not true - in the sense that one cannot but have some position. Atheism theoretically claims to have "no beliefs in God", but practically, this is impossible.
From Wiki:
“We cannot identify anything which will count for or against the truth of our statements concerning ‘God’”. -- this is a position.
I myself am struggling with this. I'll have to ask for some help on this.
True. I think it comes down to common decency and philosophical skills.
Namely, I think the "death of God" movement and related have brought the philosophical questions concerning the nature of God and belief in God to a point where they could not answer them in a way that would satisfy them anymore, nor did they have the faith to put those questions aside as unimportant enough.
Peple in general have the tendency that when they reach the end of their wits in some matter, they declare the matter to be impossible to resolve, ever, by anyone, by any effort (like Van Buren above), or they declare the matter to be unimportant or irrelevant.
In my opinion, these are just impermanent positions, though, and that will shift in time.
In essence, there is an element of taking responsibility for one's philosophical reasoning as well, but it seems this is not as common as "taking responsibility for one's actions".
That is a form of black and white reasoning, in Islam religion is whatever you say it is, generally, as long as God is in the picture somewhere. Some people disagree and immediately prove it by saying religion is what they say it is. And thats fine. There is no penalty for being obtuse.
But philosophically speaking the man who studies little of religion and is content with a heaven and a hell and just God knows esentially as much about God as the man who spends his life mulling the infinite possibilities. I think of religion as an exploration of life and to me it adds meaning colour and richness to life. So I can see why those who have no faith would still want some of the reflected glory of it.
But who are they fooling here?
But philosophically speaking the man who studies little of religion and is content with a heaven and a hell and just God knows esentially as much about God as the man who spends his life mulling the infinite possibilities. I think of religion as an exploration of life and to me it adds meaning colour and richness to life. So I can see why those who have no faith would still want some of the reflected glory of it.
But who are they fooling here?
Perhaps they are not trying to be mean. Perhaps they are just desperate, unhappy.
It can be quite a burden to be born with an above-average IQ ability in a society that does not have the means to satisfy the philosophical inquiries of such a person.
And Richard Dawkins is a human too.
Why not come up with an example, and see how they did it? It sounds like you are attempting to declare all atheists to be not Jews - if only Hitler had been so scrupulous, or Saudi Arabia these days.SAM said:
You can.SAM said:
No. And his teaching about God can easily be interpreted as heuristic or metaphorical or analogic - if desired.SAM said:
There is no place in "the community" for sincere and community supportive but unorthodox beliefs? Hardly seems Christian, or Jewish. Is that how Muslims think?SAM said:
One of the major objections to the Abrahamic religions is their tendency to produce people who think like that - and act on those opinions. A vicious and unprincipled bigotry inculcated in childhood is difficult to sway, later on.SAM said:
In the real world religion is a category of role-filling beliefs accompanied by ritual and practice, whether there is a God in the picture or not.SAM said:
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Perhaps they are not trying to be mean. Perhaps they are just desperate, unhappy.
It can be quite a burden to be born with an above-average IQ ability in a society that does not have the means to satisfy the philosophical inquiries of such a person.
And Richard Dawkins is a human too.
I didn't mean to imply they were being mean or that they cannot be desperate or unhappy, it must be hard to be without faith in a society based on one. I dislike the pretence
Take the Christmas tree for instance. Is it a requirement of Christianity? would one not be Christian if they did not put up a tree? I don't think so.
But look at all the stretches that atheists will go to, to justify putting up one. Its a pagan tradition, its got nothing to do with Jesus. Its blah blah blah blah blah
Who cares? You want to put up a fricking tree, put up the tree. Just don't call yourself a cultural Christian because you want to play Santa Claus too.
Similarly, the atheist Jew who's lighting the menorrah on Hanukkah? You don't believe YHWH saved the Jews from the Pharoah? No archaeological evidence of exile? Its all mythology? Guess what? No contest there. The issue is one of faith in God. You don't have it, fine, light the fricking menorrah and put it in your window. Just don't call yourself Jewish because you did it.
Correct. Not all Jews are religious. Especially the atheist ones.
Can't be done.
You mean a gentile who converted to Judaism in the past? I'd assume not.
You can follow Jesus's moral teachings, for example, without subscribing to his theology, or even believing he was the son of God.
No. It just means you don't believe in gods any more.
I think that most people who describe themselves as "cultural" Jews of Christians were brought up in those environments. They absorbed parts of the culture and ways of thinking and being. Often, they dropped the religious aspects later on.
Saying you're a cultural Catholic or Jew or whatever is really a sign of respect, SAM. The fact that you can't comprehend that, or that it doesn't even occur to you, is quite revealing about you.
Nonsense. Islam has quite explicit religious practices.
It sounds to me like you pick and choose the bits you like and ignore the rest.