Congratulations America - you got the president you deserve

[Tiassa]

I get it that many people have strong feelings about the US election outcome. But if you can't discuss it without getting inappropriately personal and insulting, this is a topic you might be better off avoiding.

Yes, James, but I also think you're taking the episode far too seriously. To the one, you used to advise staff members to lighten up about people's behavior because this is just a website. To the other, you have a long history of encouraging right-wing trolling: If they can't discuss it without fallacy, lies, and insults, well, you certainly wouldn't want to suppress their political views.

So, take your pick. Under normal circumstances, I agree the whole KYS thing is inappropriate, but in a circumstance when we're not supposed to be taking what people say seriously, it's a different measure.

(By the way, this wasn't about the election outcome itself, but hoping that a sex offender continues to harass his victim just for kicks. It's one thing if what Parmalee said was inappropriate, but there is no good to be found in misrepresenting the circumstance.)

 

[Trek]

By the way, this wasn't about the election outcome itself, but hoping that a sex offender continues to harass his victim just for kicks.

That’s not what I said, nor is it what I meant.
Ultimately the verdict was based on the testimony of one women against a man who denied even knowing, or even knowingly seeing this woman. No other evidence was brought forward. As a result he was accused of the heinous crime of rape. Appealing the judgement is not a form of harrasment.

Telling someone to go kill themselves because they are worthless and have no contribution to the world is a violent act, and harassment.

I myself have been warned and banned consistently because of posters who take offence to the most silliest of things.
Now you tell me if that isn’t harassment.

For all anyone knows I may be a person of low self-esteem, and go into a deep depression, even end up taking his advice.
Yet all he gets is a warning.

This type of bigotry and hate seems to be apparent behaviour on the left side of the spectrum which is probably why sober minded people question Caroll’s accusation of Trump at that particular time of h running for another term.

Her jubilant tour of breakfast tv after hearing of her victory, especially the interview with Anderson Cooper, plus the “coincidence” of a law and order tv show episode, a show she regards as her favourite.
Which included a very similar rape accusation scenario at the same exact store, put a lot of people off. Questioning her accusation.
So there is no harassment on the Trump team who feel that this is just yet another false accusation, to appeal the case, and investigate the judge.
When Kash Patel the new head of the FBI starts his draining of the bureaucratic swamp creatures, we will see

Tell Someone ‘How to KYS’ and You Could End Up In Jail

Michelle Carter was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter after telling boyfriend to kill himself

www.stompoutbullying.org

 

[Sarkus]

Trump wasn't convicted of "rape". If what he did would be called "rape" in some other jurisdiction, that's kind of beside the point as well. Maybe an unwanted kiss is called "rape" somewhere but so what? Trump was convicted of doing more than that but he wasn't convicted of putting his "member" in her.

This is the DoJ's current definition (as far as I can establish) under federal law:

"The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

An Updated Definition of Rape

This is archived content from the U.S. Department of Justice website. The information here may be outdated and links may no longer function. Please contact webmaster@usdoj.gov if you have any questions about the archive site.

www.justice.gov

Do you agree that what Trump was found liable for fits within that definition (specifically the part I have bolded)?

To put it in perspective, Clinton was in similar hot water and he still got elected and I'm guessing you preferred him at the time over the Republican (I may be wrong). In the days of Jack Kennedy we just wouldn't have the graphic details.

Clinton's case was consensual, at least per Lewinski at the time, although she has subsequently reexamined the power dynamics at play. Still not appropriate, of course, but certainly not "similar" to what Trump was found liable for - the non-consensual assault and battery.

When you have people who know each other, are probably drunk and heavy handed "groping" goes on, it is the crime of inappropriate sexual conduct or whatever the specific wording is.

You don't see a distinction between "inappropriate sexual conduct" and "sexual assault and battery"? You think inappropriately putting a hand on someone's butt is the same as inserting something into someone in a non-consensual manner??

It's not really accurate or appropriate or even a strong argument to keep labeling him as a rapist in every argument as to why he wasn't a good choice, IMO.

It is accurate to say that he was found, by a jury of his peers, to be liable for the sexual assault and battery of a woman, a charge that most people would accept to be within the definition of rape, and within the DoJ's federal definition of rape. It is one of many good reasons why he isn't a good choice for President, that speak to character flaws that one should not expect to find in the head of state.
To not raise it is to diminish it. The US should not be proud of having elected someone found liable of rape to be head of their state.

I do understand the emotions behind that kind of reply, I'm just suggesting that it isn't particularly logical or the strongest argument.

Noone is saying it is the strongest argument, but it is a logical argument: it speaks to character, and it speaks to the sorry state of US politics. One could keep mentioning his fraudulent activities, his 34 felony convictions, his efforts to overturn the 2020 election result, his inappropriate retention (and sharing?) of government documents and national secrets at Mar-a-Lago, or his narcissistic personality, or maybe his pathological lying. Or even his diminished mental decline, and his ignorance and stupidity. Or the risk that he will simply sell out one thing after another to the highest bidder.

 

[Seattle]

Yes, one could keep doing that.

 

[(Q)]

You’ve pretty much ruled out all of society.

More likely, you refer to the small bubble-like society you reside.

 

[parmalee]

That’s not what I said, nor is it what I meant.
Ultimately the verdict was based on the testimony of one women against a man who denied even knowing, or even knowingly seeing this woman. No other evidence was brought forward. As a result he was accused of the heinous crime of rape. Appealing the judgement is not a form of harrasment.

Read the documents, you imbecile. It was more than that. Then there's the small matter of his having raped and assaulted more than two dozen other women, dating back nearly 50 years.

Stop lying.

Telling someone to go kill themselves because they are worthless and have no contribution to the world is a violent act, and harassment.

I myself have been warned and banned consistently because of posters who take offence to the most silliest of things.
Now you tell me if that isn’t harassment.

For all anyone knows I may be a person of low self-esteem, and go into a deep depression, even end up taking his advice.
Yet all he gets is a warning.

Yeah, right, you're the victim here. (That's sarcasm, idiot.)

This type of bigotry and hate seems to be apparent behaviour on the left side of the spectrum which is probably why sober minded people question Caroll’s accusation of Trump at that particular time of h running for another term.

Nope. "Sober minded" people, assuming they are also rational and informed, did no such thing. Any evidence for this idiotic claim?

Tell Someone ‘How to KYS’ and You Could End Up In Jail

Michelle Carter was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter after telling boyfriend to kill himself

www.stompoutbullying.org

Wahhhh.

 

[billvon]

I pity you, and will pray for you.

To republican Jesus? No thanks.

"Cursed are the poor in the world, for they are worthless drains on society
Cursed are those who mourn, for they are loser liberal crybabies
Cursed are the meek, for they are SO easy to walk all over
Cursed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for that's a weaponized justice system
Cursed are the merciful, for they spend my tax money
Cursed are the pure in heart, for they don't like rapists
Cursed are the peacemakers, for they took away the Nobel Prize that Trump deserved
Blessed are those who are persecuted for their crimes, for they are all republicans."

 

[(Q)]

That’s not what I said, nor is it what I meant.
Ultimately the verdict was based on the testimony of one women against a man who denied even knowing, or even knowingly seeing this woman. No other evidence was brought forward.

That is a complete lie, ones you gleaned from Fox News. Of course, what happened in court is an entirely different thing of which you have no concept. You will only repeat the lies you hear on Fox News.

I myself have been warned and banned consistently because of posters who take offence to the most silliest of things.

Yes, we know you believe rules, law and order, justice... are "the most silliest of things" which is why you make a good Trump supporter.

For all anyone knows I may be a person of low self-esteem, and go into a deep depression, even end up taking his advice.

I think we all know what kind of person you are, dishonest, arrogant, delusional for starters.

This type of bigotry and hate seems to be apparent behaviour on the left side of the spectrum which is probably why sober minded people question Caroll’s accusation of Trump at that particular time of h running for another term.

Projection at its finest.

So there is no harassment on the Trump team who feel that this is just yet another false accusation, to appeal the case, and investigate the judge.
When Kash Patel the new head of the FBI starts his draining of the bureaucratic swamp creatures, we will see

Yes, that is a fine example of the type of person we know you are.

 

[parmalee]

Moderator note: parmalee has been warned for insulting another member and, more importantly, for suggesting that somebody here ought to commit suicide. This is highly inappropriate and breaches our site posting guidelines in a number of different ways.

I get it that many people have strong feelings about the US election outcome. But if you can't discuss it without getting inappropriately personal and insulting, this is a topic you might be better off avoiding.

Sure. I'll take your "advice" when you learn to recognize egregious racism as racism.

 

[billvon]

Ultimately the verdict was based on the testimony of one women against a man who denied even knowing, or even knowingly seeing this woman. No other evidence was brought forward.

Nope.

There was a dress with his DNA on it. He refused to provide a DNA sample before the trial for obvious reasons.

There were two women that E. Jean Carroll talked to right after she was raped - Lisa Birnbach and Carol Martin - one of whom advised her to not pursue charges. Thus demonstrating she had not just made it up after Trump was elected.

There was Trump's deposition. In it he claimed he never saw her before in his life, and that she "wasn't my type." Then he was shown a picture of the two of them together - and misidentified Carroll as his wife. Thus proving he was lying on both counts.

All that was considered by both juries.

He is a rapist.

 

[(Q)]

When Kash Patel the new head of the FBI starts his draining of the bureaucratic swamp creatures, we will see

Patel wants to eliminate the arm of the FBI that deals with terrorism, which will be an open invitation to every terrorist in the world to enact another 911.

 

[billvon]

Patel wants to eliminate the arm of the FBI that deals with terrorism, which will be an open invitation to every terrorist in the world to enact another 911.

Remember when Trump disbanded the US Pandemic Response Unit back in 2018? I mean, what's the worst that could happen?

 

[(Q)]

Now, we have Dinesh Dsouza, who was sued for defamation in his film '2000 Mules' admitting his film was garbage, that they were lying all along.

This is what Republicans are, saying one thing in public and the exact opposite when they are under oath in a court of law. Liars and grifters.

 

[Trek]

Read the documents, you imbecile. It was more than that. Then there's the small matter of his having raped and assaulted more than two dozen other women, dating back nearly 50 years.

Please feel free to show where he actually raped any woman, let alone the ones in question. Or are you ok with “she said it, so it must be true?
You woke person

Yeah, right, you're the victim here. (That's sarcasm, idiot.)

Nope. That’s your territory woke boy

Nope. "Sober minded" people, assuming they are also rational and informed, did no such thing. Any evidence for this idiotic claim?

I think you’ll find that you’re mistaken.
Sober people can see you.
Your shit is all out in the open and Trump isn’t even officially sworn in.
I’m okay to wait and see what happens in the next 2 years

Wahhhh

Why am I not surprised.

 

[Trek]

To republican Jesus? No thanks.

"Cursed are the poor in the world, for they are worthless drains on society
Cursed are those who mourn, for they are loser liberal crybabies
Cursed are the meek, for they are SO easy to walk all over
Cursed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for that's a weaponized justice system
Cursed are the merciful, for they spend my tax money
Cursed are the pure in heart, for they don't like rapists
Cursed are the peacemakers, for they took away the Nobel Prize that Trump deserved
Blessed are those who are persecuted for their crimes, for they are all republicans."

Aww!
Poor you!

 

[parmalee]

Please feel free to show where he actually raped any woman, let alone the ones in question. Or are you ok with “she said it, so it must be true?
You woke person

Nope. That’s your territory woke boy

I think you’ll find that you’re mistaken.
Sober people can see you.
Your shit is all out in the open and Trump isn’t even officially sworn in.
I’m okay to wait and see what happens in the next 2 years

Why am I not surprised.

Are you even capable of addressing anything specific, or saying anything substantive?

You say absolutely nothing. You contribute absolutely nothing. You are utterly and completely worthless. DO something about it.

 

[parmalee]

Please feel free to show where he actually raped any woman, let alone the ones in question.

Please feel free to demonstrate that you are an actual person--and I ain't suggesting you're AI. Rather I'm suggesting that you are a pile of flesh and fat that takes and takes. And nothing else. That's all you are.

 

[Trek]

There was a dress with his DNA on it. He refused to provide a DNA sample before the trial for obvious reasons.

Then he decided to cooperate.
Why didn’t the Judge take him up on it?
If Trump was really guilty that would have been the thing to utterly destroy his credibility. He would most certainly have lost the election.

There were two women that E. Jean Carroll talked to right after she was raped - Lisa Birnbach and Carol Martin - one of whom advised her to not pursue charges. Thus demonstrating she had not just made it up after Trump was elected.

How do we know these women didn’t make it up?
Are we supposed to believe them because they say so?
Maybe the reason for the lawfare was to stop Trump from being re-elected. Did you think about that?.

Serious question: Do you think it is possible that Carol could have made this up?

There was Trump's deposition. In it he claimed he never saw her before in his life, and that she "wasn't my type." Then he was shown a picture of the two of them together - and misidentified Carroll as his wife. Thus proving he was lying on both counts.

How does that show he was lying.
He made an error.

All that was considered by both juries.

Still not actual evidence.
When a woman can just say X raped me, and purely on the basis of her claim X is now a rapist without actual evidence…
We’re in a lot of trouble.
Thank God we put a stop to this nonsense thinking by voting the loonies out.

He is a rapist.

So if a woman who happened to be in a public photo with you, accuses you of raping her, taking you to court, and winning the case, would you be ok with that?

 

[billvon]

Please feel free to show where he actually raped any woman

Sure. Judge Lewis Kaplan explains:

"The finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was ‘raped’ within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump ‘raped’ her as many people commonly understand the word ‘rape.’ Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that.”

He is a rapist as determined by two different juries, based on the evidence presented.

 

[billvon]

Aww!
Poor you!

Fortunate me! I don't worship a rapist and a felon. I am very thankful I am not like you.