Congratulations America - you got the president you deserve

So, I've mentioned that I'm an Independent, but didn't vote for him. Why do you think he was able to swing more Democrats his way this time? Not being happy with Trump, I get it, but he was voted back in by not just ''MAGA'' Republicans. What do you make of it?
Fewer than half of voters are registered as Democrat or Republican. I'm not a Democrat and I don't think I really know any Democrats--maybe a few? Who knows? So it's less a matter of swinging Democrats than it is one of swinging the populace generally.

But, yeah, that's the question. Dozens of conflicting theories on that. Personally, I think that racism and misogyny are rampant in the US. Always have been, and, in many respects, the US was founded upon racist and misogynist ideologies. But obviously there's a lot more to it. Americans are a very poorly educated people--especially younger (under 35) Americans. Relevant here, they don't know shit about history or how government functions, and they sorely lack critical thinking skills--the ability to distinguish reliable information from garbage nonsense is crucial.

Additionally, Americans are a materialistic bunch--far more so than people pretty much anywhere else, from my experience. They eat cheap shit (that other countries either tax heavily or do not even allow in the marketplace in the first place), they buy cheap shit, they "consume" crap entertainment. They're more about having, or "owning", than they are about doing. So in the end, cheap shit--or the perception of such--rules the day.
 
So, those non-MAGA types who voted for him are of bad character?
No, many were just fooled by the misinformation that Trump and right wing media were so good at. They really believed that illegal immigrants were eating people's pets, and that democrats would destroy America. Despite the reality of what's happening with the economy, they believed that the US economy was in tatters.

Google Alfred Hugenberg to see how loud enough propaganda, propagated by a large enough media, can convince anyone of anything.
 
Fewer than half of voters are registered as Democrat or Republican. I'm not a Democrat and I don't think I really know any Democrats--maybe a few? Who knows? So it's less a matter of swinging Democrats than it is one of swinging the populace generally.

But, yeah, that's the question. Dozens of conflicting theories on that. Personally, I think that racism and misogyny are rampant in the US. Always have been, and, in many respects, the US was founded upon racist and misogynist ideologies. But obviously there's a lot more to it. Americans are a very poorly educated people--especially younger (under 35) Americans. Relevant here, they don't know shit about history or how government functions, and they sorely lack critical thinking skills--the ability to distinguish reliable information from garbage nonsense is crucial.

Additionally, Americans are a materialistic bunch--far more so than people pretty much anywhere else, from my experience. They eat cheap shit (that other countries either tax heavily or do not even allow in the marketplace in the first place), they buy cheap shit, they "consume" crap entertainment. They're more about having, or "owning", than they are about doing. So in the end, cheap shit--or the perception of such--rules the day.
This is really insightful, and it's this type of introspection that is required to change the strategy going forward. Being angry because a huge swath of voters went with Trump, and calling them names (not you doing this, just seeing this type of thing in general) is not a winning strategy for the next time. Trump does that too, however, calls people names, but I think it cost him votes. It also gains him votes, but I don't think the 'now Trump' voters who didn't vote for him last time but did this time, did so because he is so brash. Maybe, who knows. Of those I know who didn't vote for him the first time, but did now, they felt he conveyed something that Harris' campaign didn't.

But, you're right, it's not easy to dissect this one and say "ah-ha! This is why."
 
No, many were just fooled by the misinformation that Trump and right wing media were so good at. They really believed that illegal immigrants were eating people's pets, and that democrats would destroy America. Despite the reality of what's happening with the economy, they believed that the US economy was in tatters.

Google Alfred Hugenberg to see how loud enough propaganda, propagated by a large enough media, can convince anyone of anything.
Thanks, I’ll check it out. I don’t disagree in theory, however MSM seems to lean left, but Trump was front and center often during this campaign. I read he had been campaigning for well over a year. There has to be some blame for why the Democratic Party didn’t prepare her better and sooner, if they wanted her to run. If they had an inkling Biden wasn’t the right one. I can’t help but think if she had more time, a lot more time, this might have been a different outcome. There’s many reasons but I think Harris was set up to fail.
 
Thanks, I’ll check it out. I don’t disagree in theory, however MSM seems to lean left, but Trump was front and center often during this campaign.
This is patently false. This has been studied extensively, and the mainstream media is solidly centrist. As inadequate and ineffectual as it is, they generally adhere to reporting facts and do not report blatant falsehoods and conspiracies. Right and Left are not rigidly defined, but they do have meaning nonetheless. Unfortunately, the "failure" of the mainstream media to report untruths makes them left-leaning to a large number of Americans--people who, by and large, as so poorly educated that they don't even know what the term "authoritarian" means.

A left-leaning media would be expressly and explicitly socialistic, communistic and/or anarchistic--and anti-fascistic--to some extent in it's perspective. There is, in fact, a lot of that out there, but it is in no sense the mainstream media.
 
So, those non-MAGA types who voted for him are of bad character? This is what I’m talking about and what I’ve been hearing on CNN, etc. They are realizing that these blanket statements could be why he was able to sway some on the left. Not because those “new” voters think he’s amazing, but they liked his policies so overlooked his character. I don’t think Trump’s win is as easy to dissect as we’d like it to be. That’s just my observation.
It isn't complicated.We all saw what happened.

I am not prepared to get into a discussion of how "good people do bad things"

I feel sorry for those who did not ask for such shitty representation but not for the others.
 
This is really insightful, and it's this type of introspection that is required to change the strategy going forward. Being angry because a huge swath of voters went with Trump, and calling them names (not you doing this, just seeing this type of thing in general) is not a winning strategy for the next time. Trump does that too, however, calls people names, but I think it cost him votes. It also gains him votes, but I don't think the 'now Trump' voters who didn't vote for him last time but did this time, did so because he is so brash. Maybe, who knows. Of those I know who didn't vote for him the first time, but did now, they felt he conveyed something that Harris' campaign didn't.

But, you're right, it's not easy to dissect this one and say "ah-ha! This is why."
Yeah, I think for the gazillion-odd explanations out there, many of them have some merit--even when they are wholly contrary to another posited theory.

My pet-fave concerns the American diet and propensity towards inactivity. I'm a little obsessed with that shit, but I genuinely think that there is something there: more than 75 percent of Americans are overweight or obese and Americans are a notoriously inactive people.

(First off, caveats and some context: I've got a stupid, irrational bias and I aware of that. I'm well aware that the reasons for obesity are complex and multi-faceted and I'm also aware that there are quite a number of reasons for American inactivity. So I appreciate it and welcome it when people call me out for saying something stupid on these matters. That said, I'm 6'1" and 130 pounds and I'm neither unhealthy nor anorexic. I'm just gaunt or lithe or whatever, and always have been. But do you know how hard it is for someone like me to buy clothes? There are actually a number of weird challenges that really skinny people have to face on a daily basis. Doesn't excuse my bias, of course, I'm just sayin.)

Trump is really fat and is notoriously lazy--he doesn't walk anywhere. I don't think that's a huge factor, but I do think that a lot of Americans do see themselves in him in a weird sort of way. But more to the point, poor diet and inactivity does not make for healthy brain function. Funnily, I think RFK Jr would agree with me on this (and when he talks about that kind of stuff--food additives, ultra-processed foods, and the like--he's actually quite reasonable).
 
Do you think he’ll squander US tax dollars, in the same way? I’m cautiously optimistic, because the alternative is a bit gloomy.
What Trump, Elon and many of his cronies will do is find piles of cash in the government and begin funneling into their pockets. Then, they'll say there's no money for government programs and begin shutting them down.
 
So, I've mentioned that I'm an Independent, but didn't vote for him. Why do you think he was able to swing more Democrats his way this time? Not being happy with Trump, I get it, but he was voted back in by not just ''MAGA'' Republicans. What do you make of it?
It looks more likely that he didn't really swing more people his way, but instead the Dems just didn't show up to vote.
 
I really need to re-read Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism, but just going by memory, these guys are definitely more in the Hitler/Stalin camp than the Mussolini camp. (And Franco was practically a saint next to any of them.) The racial stuff, the terror, the propaganda methods--it's all there. Supplanting independent artistic and intellectual endeavor with mediocre hacks presents more of a challenge in the absence of state run media, and in an era wherein methods for disseminating such are sof diversified, but... they're probably looking into ways to rectify that.

As for the architects? Obviously Trump isn't terribly knowledgeable in these areas, to put it mildly. I suspect Stephen Miller (a Jew, incidentally) is behind a lot of this.
I don't know about that. I think Trump has an eerie gift for how far he can go and get away with it, coming back for a bit more each time. Let me quote a passage from "Defying Hitler", by Sebastian Haffner, a biographical account of life in Germany in the interwar years, which I read a year or two ago. (This passage describes the situation a little before Hitler took power):

"As nothing of the sort [Hitler being arrested for his cruel and threatening speeches] happened, and on the contrary the man surpassed himself, becoming ever more deranged and monstrous, and also ever more notorious, more impossible to ignore, the effect was reversed. It was then that the real mystery of the Hitler phenomenon began to show itself: the strange befuddlement and numbness of his opponents, who could not cope with his behaviour and found themselves transfixed by the gaze of the basilisk, unable to see that it was hell personified that challenged them.

Summoned as a witness before the highest German court, Hitler bellowed at the judges that he would one day come to power by strictly constitutional means and then heads would roll. Nothing happened. The white haired president of the supreme court did not think of ordering the witness to be taken into custody for contempt. In the presidential elections against Hindenburg, Hitler declared that the victory was his, in any case. His opponent was 85, he was 43; he could wait. Nothing happened. When he said it again at his next meeting, the audience tittered, as if it had been tickled. One night six stormtroopers fell on a "dissident" in his bed and literally trampled him to death, for which they were sentenced to death. Hitler sent them a telegram of praise and acknowledgement. Nothing happened. No, something did happen: the murderers were pardoned."

I feel we see a paler version of this playing out in the USA at present. The prosecutors and the courts have had four years to put this man on trial for subverting American democracy and various other crimes, but they have moved at such a glacial pace that he has been to get re-elected and wriggle out of his date with justice. And now he will subvert the justice process itself. (There is a passage about that too in "Defying Hitler": the writer was a clerk at the court and saw first hand the sacking of the judges and their replacement.) The USA seems paralysed, unable to see the danger Trump represents to everything noble that the country has stood for and everything that binds its society together.

Trump needs control of the judiciary, which he is well on the way to getting, and control of the military, which is his next move, courtesy of this Hegseth fellow. He can't afford another stand-off with someone of the rectitude of Gen. Mark Milley. (Milley himself is on record as saying he fears being called up out of retirement, to be court-martialled.) We've already discussed the likely attempts to cow the less sympathetic media organisations - and of course Musk's X is there already in plain sight.

Where I agree with you about a wider strategy is this Project 2025. Trump didn't invent that. It is the long-gestated product of Republican/plutocrat thinking about how to secure power permanently.
 
Dunning Kruger is about people who say they're smart when clearly they're not.
More importantly, it's a statement of the premise that someone needs a bare minimum of knowledge/experience with something before they can know how little they really understand about it.

I used to teach skydiving, and there was an effect we called the "100 jump wonder" effect - someone would get to 100 jumps (triple digits!) and figure he pretty much knew it all. He could do basic RV/VRW, could land well, could spot the plane, so how much more was there to know? They know it all!

The lucky ones made it to 300-500 jumps and then came to the realization "wow, this is really hard to do well." At that point they were usually fine - safer, more likely to grow into someone skilled in their particular discipline.

This is summed up pretty well by this graph:DK.png
 
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The problem with broad brushing what happened in this election, is that's not a wise ''strategy'' to winning future elections. Where I think Harris' campaign went wrong is she was too late into the race (not her fault), and her messaging wasn't strong enough. I actually feel bad for her, because she was thrown out there by her party. And, I also felt bad for Biden. He too was sort of pushed around and then out of the way.

There seemed to be no strategy, on how to improve the economy, etc. There were other reasons too, in that Democrats didn't bank on ''traditionally'' Democratic voters, or who they thought would vote that way, going to Trump. Or that all of his legal woes weren't problematic enough to overlook the economy and other challenges the US has been facing. Not an expert political strategist by any means, but just my novice perspective from observing this reality show we call a government. I understand where you're coming from, but Trump didn't win based on identity politics, in my opinion.

I truly believe that if Harris had more time to campaign, more time to strategize with her team, she would have won. Whoever was behind that last minute decision to not permit Biden to run, was partially to blame for her loss.
It read (to me) like a blanket statement as to why Trump won. I’d say it’s human nature to vote for candidates that you can somewhat identify with, so white, privileged wealthy men for example, are somewhat more likely to gravitate to Trump. That doesn’t mean that all privileged white men or women voted for him, though, But, he did well in traditionally Democrat states, so I’m not sure greed was a motivator for those who aren’t white/privileged/male, etc..
 
So, suppose someone couldn't decide, they didn't like either candidate, so they refused to vote. I have a few friends who refused to vote for Trump, for a number of reasons, and they also didn't feel that Harris presented a strong enough case as to how an administration under her, would be different from Biden. So they refused to vote but are angry that Trump won. Well, hello? I've read a few articles here and there, that suggest that Trump won because ''Democrats didn't show up.'' Are those who ''stayed home,'' to blame at all?
 
It's simply people who won't take responsibility for their lives. I absentee voted three times on active duty, because I planned to come back here.
 
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