they by no means treat them perfectly but a non muslim in muslim countries except for the worst has more rights legally enforced that a non jew does in Israel.
Compromising with apartheid [second try]
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
they by no means treat them perfectly but a non muslim in muslim countries except for the worst has more rights legally enforced that a non jew does in Israel.
On the books maybe, but not enforced.
And you're playing the role of the segregationists at the time?
S.A.M. is lying
There's been plenty of Arabs in the Knesset, in cabinet and elected alike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset
There's been plenty of Arabs in the Knesset, in cabinet and elected alike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset
Last edited:
Palestinians aren't citizens, therefore they can't be elected.
Arabs who identify as Palestinians and are also Israeli citizens can run for office and win, and also be hand picked for positions. Arabs historically have had opportunity. Thus it's their political positions being wildly out of step with the country that prevents them from winning positions. David Duke isn't elected in America because everyone hates his views.
It's no different.
Thus your claim of discrimination is a lie.
And where did I say anything about elections?
What is your response to the claims in this post, written by an American Jew?
http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/how-c...em-of-inequality-in-israelpalestine.html#hide
Which part is he lying about?
What is your response to the claims in this post, written by an American Jew?
http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/how-c...em-of-inequality-in-israelpalestine.html#hide
Which part is he lying about?
He didn't lie, he's not an Israeli.
Indeed.
And where did he say he was?
Which part of his claims was the lie you were pointing out to?
so an arab can buy land where ever he wants in palestine? An arab can with out reproach say the forcible dispossession of him and other like him buy Israel was wrong? are arabs/muslims treated as dangerous and a threat just for being what they are? the answer to these question is No its is you who is lying and twisting the truth.
Mod Hat - General notice
Mod Hat — General notice
While I much appreciate the generally-civil—albeit sometimes taut—participation of the majority of members partaking in this thread, I am obliged to note that moderator action has been taken regarding some posts made over the weekend. A suspension has been issued; I have not yet decided how to carve up the posts in question. For the rest of you, please continue, as you have, doing your best to work through the relevant issues of this thread.
Thank you.
Mod Hat — General notice
While I much appreciate the generally-civil—albeit sometimes taut—participation of the majority of members partaking in this thread, I am obliged to note that moderator action has been taken regarding some posts made over the weekend. A suspension has been issued; I have not yet decided how to carve up the posts in question. For the rest of you, please continue, as you have, doing your best to work through the relevant issues of this thread.
Thank you.
No I am not.
Does any Israeli law prevent Israeli Arabs from buying land in Israel?
(Interesting fact: Palestinians who sell land to Israelis are sentenced to death: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/29/2555843.htm)
Does any Israeli law prevent Israeli Arabs from saying what they like? Some of them mourn Israel's Independence Day every year, just like some Native Americans mourn America's Independence Day.
Is a Native American protected from reproach if he complains about America's land theft? Of course not - other Americans can respond however they like. It's called free speech.
Treated by whom? You can't legislate away feelings of racism, only some of their effects.
Does any Israeli law give Israeli Muslims fewer rights than Israeli Jews? Cite one if you can - otherwise your claims are empty.
(Palestinian Muslims who aren't Israeli citizens obviously have fewer rights in Israel than Israeli Jews and Muslims, just like Mexican Catholics who aren't US citizens have fewer rights in the USA than American Protestants and Catholics do. That's not religious discrimination, it's how nation states work.)
[citation needed]
Does the absence of Jim Crow laws mean that discrimination does not exist?
e.g. Imagine we are discussing the rounding up of Jews in WII pre gas chambers.
Was there a German law that indicated that Jews were to be rounded up and killed?
If not, does that mean it didn't happen?
Frankly I'm surprised that you would deny the system of apartheid in Israel. Aren't you South African? Haven't you read statements from prominent South Africans who have visited the Occupied territories and declared that Israeli policies are worse than apartheid [they include collective punishment which was absent in South African apartheid]?
Are you aware that Richard Goldstone has described Israeli policies as a "crime against humanity"?
Why would someone like you defend a system like this?
Last edited:
They're talking about the occupied territories, SAM. The situation there is indeed terrible and the sooner the occupation ends the better.
Of course it's worse than Apartheid - it's a war. They could say the same about the situation in Iraq, Darfur or Sri Lanka, but for some reason that's not politically expedient.
What I'm disputing is pjdude's claim that Israeli Arabs are legally worse off than non-Muslims in Islamic states. While there have been cases of discrimination, when taken to court the Israeli court has ruled in favor of the person facing discrimination. That's why laws matter.
People like pjdude are bad for the Palestinians, SAM. Mixing false claims with real ones doesn't help anyone.
Of course it's worse than Apartheid - it's a war. They could say the same about the situation in Iraq, Darfur or Sri Lanka, but for some reason that's not politically expedient.
What I'm disputing is pjdude's claim that Israeli Arabs are legally worse off than non-Muslims in Islamic states. While there have been cases of discrimination, when taken to court the Israeli court has ruled in favor of the person facing discrimination. That's why laws matter.
No, but it means that Apartheid does not exist. America has the KKK, the UK has the BNP and India has the Hindutva. The individuals who sympathize with those groups discriminate all the time. Does that make America, the UK and India Apartheid states?
People like pjdude are bad for the Palestinians, SAM. Mixing false claims with real ones doesn't help anyone.
Hmm so if the Germans rounded up the Jews from their homes and put them in a ghetto and denied them citizenship or statehood its not apartheid?
If they then proceeded to attack them with WMDs while they smuggled guns through sewers its not apartheid, its war?
So was the ANC at war with South Africa? Were the bantustans not apartheid?
If they then proceeded to attack them with WMDs while they smuggled guns through sewers its not apartheid, its war?
So was the ANC at war with South Africa? Were the bantustans not apartheid?
Not quite nihilist, but we're getting there
The KKK has very little political power left. India is inherently an apartheid state by its caste system. The BNP, of all things, would not be the tipping point that makes the UK an apartheid state; as British interests in South Africa and Ireland have largely resolved, the question in determining its apartheid status would be found in examining the rest of the Commonwealth, and while I'm certain we can find some inequity occurring, I'm not sure we'll necessarily find anything rising to the level of a caste system, South Africa, or the Israel/Palestine issue.
Zephyr said:
The KKK has very little political power left. India is inherently an apartheid state by its caste system. The BNP, of all things, would not be the tipping point that makes the UK an apartheid state; as British interests in South Africa and Ireland have largely resolved, the question in determining its apartheid status would be found in examining the rest of the Commonwealth, and while I'm certain we can find some inequity occurring, I'm not sure we'll necessarily find anything rising to the level of a caste system, South Africa, or the Israel/Palestine issue.
If Germany kicked out all the Muslims and then declared war on the Muslim states they fled to would that be Apartheid?
That's an interesting claim, considering that there are affirmative action laws in place to undo the effects of previous discrimination.
Only if being an Aryan was not a demographic threat.
If the Arabs were not attacking Israel and killing innocent people perhaps there would be less discrimination against them. One cannot expect one side to be pure and idealistic in the face of constant warfare. The Jews in Germany in the 30's were no physical threat to Germans, quite the contrary.