communication with other demensions

[FreedomCry75]

Blackwinded--I don't have the "voices", but I do have the dreams. I've been shown things, and they have come true. The Tsunami last year, and most recently, I've been dreaming of water...for months...water, and being around so much water and people hanging onto boards and floating debris...This was a month before Katrina. I do get messages, but they are just in the form of thought, when I am meditating. Just ask that you be clear on what is truly from another source, and what is from your own mind. You will know. Many people are becoming...multidemensional right now. If you want to know more, I can send yous some links, or just do your research, and find your own truth. That is what it is really all about.

People from other demensions have been communicating with me through telepathy for the last 2 years. Well, actually, it's been going on much longer than that, but i did not understand it all until recently. Does anyone else have experience with this? I'm not talking about dead people communicating with me, but living beings from seperate demensions. They have givin me all kinds of warnings about how horrible the world is and that it will soon end. They have informed me that the world is a big illusion set up to destroy me. They let me know when spies are following me and such.

I can hear their voices inside my head. Often, there are too many of them talking at once and i can't really understand. Sometimes, i hear them talking in strange languages i've never heard. I also see a lot of visions...of things i can't even describe because they are so strange. I believe these are also messages from the other demensions.

well, i just thought i'd put this out there to find out if there's anyone else around here with similar abilities. thanx for reading

 

[(Q)]

Blackwinded--I don't have the "voices", but I do have the dreams. I've been shown things, and they have come true. The Tsunami last year, and most recently, I've been dreaming of water...for months...water, and being around so much water and people hanging onto boards and floating debris...This was a month before Katrina.

Not that what you claim is unbelievable, but what exactly are the messages you're getting now, so that we may know when the next natural disaster occurs, and by your message, save many lives?

It's very easy to claim 'received messages' after the fact, but it is only relevant if you receive messages before the events take place.

 

[ozzie]

Ozzie,

The assertion is simply not true. The cause of schizophrenia is known. It's a defect in how the brain's electrical activity is governed. In unaffected people, brain cells link together at a single frequency of electrical activity. The schizophrenic brain has portions that are operating at different frequencies and this results in hallucination / unclear thinking (depending which part(s) of the brain are out of sync).

It's also pretty fucked up to promote the idea of psychic powers and drug therrappy to an 18 year old with schizophrenia. While I can't say how exactly the condition affects her, there are indications in her writing that it's only resulting in babbling audio hallucination and that's something she can probably train herself to ignore without the use of drugs (unneessary drugs in schizophrenic patients can otherwise really mess them up).

I do appreciate your concern Crunchy Cat. However just saying the cause is abberant brain activity does absolutely nothing to solve the problem.

The biggest problem is that Blackwinded is being told that her experiences are false, delusions and have no founding in reality. This places Blackwinded in no-mans land in a constant state of fear and insecurity.

To deny her experience leads to paranoia, it leads to further delusion and more fear based and incorrect interpretations simply because she naturally wants to conform with popular belief.
So what if it's psychic confusion, big deal.....if she can clear it up she has a belief about psychic pheno that a lot of people have and she has it in a sane way.

Just because there is a belief in the psychic does not necesarilly mean insanity. Shit man over half the world go to church an pray. And what is prayer?

It is not the belief in the psychic that is the problem. It is the doubt and fear of what ever she is imagining or experincing and stating that it is all false is only going to increase the problem and not offer any solution.

At first when I read this thread I wasn't going to respond as I have seen this sort of thing so many times before. But when I saw all the attempts to make her deny her experience as valid I couldn't help myself because what I see is an attempt to increase the fear and delusions already happening. Angry because this sort of advice will inevitably lead to a crisis in her sense of self. Thus hospital becomes a revolving door.

If I tell our so called "sane" readers that every thing they experience that is unusual is a delusion created by abberant brain activity how do you think they would feel.

After reading Blackwinded's responses I came to the conclusion that she is very sane and just trying to cope with the insanity of her circumstances. I see a potential that if she can deal with the skeptic/believer duality she may succeed in furthering her furture.

Better is it not to acknowledge the validity of her sensory experience and work on the interpretation than to deny her sensory experinence and place her in a prison of denial.

To Blackwinded:
From what I read you are quite sane, but you need to learn to cope with the insanity you experience. This involves getting help from all possible sources.

And remember one thing:

Your beliefs are not reason from the label of "insane" or even Schizophrenia it is only what you do with those beliefs that determines the difference.

 

[ozzie]

BTW Crunchy with all due respect I find its pretty fucked that someone can claim to know the answers yet offer no solution. Schizophrenia IMO can be cured once we get our heads out of the sand and allow for all possibilities.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

What problem are you trying to solve? Schizophrenia? If so, there is no solution yet. If it's symtom management then if a patient can ignore the hallucination then that is the best way to go (big risk begin when drugs are introduced - ask any doctor about that-). If it's emotional management then there are far better substitutes than pure fantasy.

Seriously, if someone is born without a hand, are they told the hand is not really missing so they don't end up in "no-mans land"? Do we give them drugs that makes them feel like they have that missing hand? No, they're put face to face with the truth and then encouraged to adapt.

 

[ozzie]

What problem are you trying to solve? Schizophrenia? If so, there is no solution yet. If it's symtom management then if a patient can ignore the hallucination then that is the best way to go (big risk begin when drugs are introduced - ask any doctor about that-). If it's emotional management then there are far better substitutes than pure fantasy.

Seriously, if someone is born without a hand, are they told the hand is not really missing so they don't end up in "no-mans land"? Do we give them drugs that makes them feel like they have that missing hand? No, they're put face to face with the truth and then encouraged to adapt.

The reason I can be so confident about what I say is that I have had similar experiences to Blackwinded but have never been considered as schizophrenic or mentally ill.
The experiences she talks about are rooted in psychic development. Her actual problem is that every one she sees as authority is denying the existance of the psychic realm. I can not deny what I know is true either, no matter how much logic and so called rational you place on it.

If I beleived for a minute that the psychic realm is a delusion then I would go crazy....as it is a constant part of who I am

..just because someting can not be proved to your satisfaction doesn't mean it is false. It just means that it can't be proved to your satisfaction and that is all, nothing more or nothing less.

There are many people who have had similar experiences in fact we have institutions full of them, but because we refuse to accept the possibile validity of psychic pheno they are trapped between the truth of their experience and the falsehood we are forcing upon them.

If Blackwinded is offered therapies that recognise the reality of the psychic in a proffessional manner she has potential to live and live comfortably with her uncontrolled abilities by learning to control them. If no therapies are offered she will have to deal with the prison that a skeptics beliefs places her in.

If the only reason you rule out the possibility of Psychic pheno as real is the lack of evidence then maybe it's worth knowing why that evidence is unable to be scientifically shown rather than telling nearly every person on the planet that they are deluded.

The nature of the mind body relationship has been an ongoing debate for thousands of years. No one yet has been able to solve the issue properly. To assume you can tell someone the nature of the mind with some sense of authority is in itself quite delusional.
To assume that schizophrenia is incurable is only stating the limitations of your own belief systems.

It can be cured ........if only we discover ways to do so.

For example:
The voices she is hearing are not actually someone else voices directly. They appear so because they are a reflection of what she is sensing that her imagination is generating. That reflected imagination is very suseptable to fear thus the interpretation of those voices is confused.
So it is true that the voices are imaginary but what isn't imaginary?

When she realises that her imagination is reflecting the voices she senses she will realise that yes they appear to be coming form external sources but are in fact a rendition of those sources and not a direct communication from those sources.
Because it is her imaginations reflection and an essential part of her mental make up she can not ignore those voices as to do so is to ignore your own thinking. Thus impossible to solve.
However once it is understodd that those voices are distorted by her own fears and subjective understandings she will be able to learn to control her reactions to those voices and eventually they will return to what every one else takes for granted. [ back ground noise [white noise or relative silence]]
It is her fear premised in a lack of understanding that drives the problem.

To deny the psychic realm is to tell her to reject her own thinking and at this level causes intense suffering.

Rather she needs to understand that it is her thinking [ reflected thought] and that it is distorted because of her fear.

So therapy starts with the issue of her fears and with medication as an aid she can make great progress.

You have got to remember that there is great fear of the paranormal inherant in nearly every one. Horror movies and stories etc get their money off of this fear.
In another thread about lucid dreaming currently running you can see how the fear of the paranormal can be very intense so much so that it mortifies and paralyses the person experiencing it.
Psychic pheno is a paranormal experience, thus fear is always there to distort the operants imagination.
It is fear that prevents the Pschic pheno from being any more than a reflexive ability. To gain control so as to use at will is extremely difficult because of the inherant fears associated. At the moment Blackwindeds abilty is a pseudo deliberate, mostly reflexive but partially deliberate. It is this fear reflex that has to be learned to be goverend and controlled.

I am currnetly running a thread about tensing if you care to take a look.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Ozzie,

If the "psychic" reference is removed from everything you said then there are some really good points that are made and I see a strong focus towards symptom and emotional management.

The moment statements like this:

If I beleived for a minute that the psychic realm is a delusion then I would go crazy....as it is a constant part of who I am

enter the game it shows something important. Reality is being substituted with fantasy because the truth is not interpreted as attractive whereas the fantasy is.

I don't see evidence that yourself or BlackWinded are mentally ill. There is evidence that a similar brain defect exists for both of you that results in hallucination. Most people hallucinate on almost a daily basis (dreaming and hypnogogia). Yourself and BlackWinded most likely experience hallucination alot more persistently and I would have to ask you is there a better way to handle it than accepting fantasy as truth?

P.S. I very likely 'suffer' from mild form of audio hallucination myself. I do find that I'm frequently listening to songs that are involuntarily and asynchronously being generated compared to what I am actually concentrating on. In fact as I am writing this, I'm listening to the dream theatre CD 'Images and Words' without a CD player . I can tune it out when needed and don't ascribe it's presence to Metallica's Ghost or the Psychic Sungod. I have turned it into quite a strength however as my aptitude for memorizing and creating music is very high. If I had a good stage personality and the music industry was less risky I might have chosen a music career.

 

[ozzie]

enter the game it shows something important. Reality is being substituted with fantasy because the truth is not interpreted as attractive whereas the fantasy is

So i read from this that you think the voices are more attractive than reality....OMG. you are crazy.....
The psychotic patient is terrified of those voices and will do almost anything to make them stop, from suicide, to doing what they tell him to do.
Claiming them as being fantazy does nothing to solve the problem in fact it exsaperates it.
In a way though it is an outcome of imagination so in a way you are correct but the geneisis of those imaginings is very firmliy present in reality by way of sensory preception.
To deny the genisis as real there is no way you can offer help. Once the source of these frantic imaginings is realised as being real tyou have a way of offering therapy and assistance.

Just for example:
Imagine if you will that people can smell pheromones in the wind and from people they are close to in proximity. Lets forget the phsycic for a moment.

A person reacts to those subconscious smells, instinctivly. Ok no need to bring the psychic realm in here at all. Just phereomones and instinctive interpretations gone crazy.

The voices are created as a result of smelling pheromones. Imagining a voice is very easy to do. Most people can do it with out a problem. But what is a problem is that most people have control of this ability and depending on intensity most poeple can turn it of and on as the will. But when the intensity is so strong that ability is lost and the voices become involuntary.
Instinctively fear rises and perpetuates the symptoms. Of course you can smell your own fear in the form of pheromones....but most importantly you can smell other peoples fear [pheromones again]

So even if we remove conceptualy the notion of the psychic realms we can still explore the potential of wayward pheromone reactions.
Assume for a moment that most of our intuitive and instinctive reactions are driven by the scent of pheromones. [ that can be carried great distances by the wind..... just as an example]
But alas this is not even considered by the medical profession as a potential causation for psychosis. why not do you think?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I don't think the interpretation of the original message is the intended one. I'll try to break it down in more detail and it only applies to BlackWinded and yourself if what has been asserted by both of you about yourselves represents the truth.

* Both of your brains have one or more sections that are slightly out of sync with regards to electrical frequency.
* As a result, involuntary experiential information is being generated exclusivly by the brain and delivered to the perception center.
* The content of the involuntary experiential information IS hallucination (no matter how intense) and can be influenced by emotion and external stimulus.
* The human brain and body have no ability to perceive the future, read other people's thoughts, send thoughts to other people, etc. In other words, no psychic ability.
* In both of your cases, the content of the involuntary experiential information is being accepted as "telepathy, clairvoyance, etc." (very attractive fantasy ideas) rather than "hallucination" (reality).

My question, is whether or not you can think of better ways to manage the symptoms and your emotional health without accepting as truth the fantasy that the symptoms are really "telepathy, clairvoyance, etc."?

The pheromones example is cool. It demonstrates the external environment can influence the content of a hallucination and doesn't take into account the source of the hallucination (which is completely internalized). Let's not forget the cause of schizophrenia, it's erroneous electrical frequency governance in the brain.

Ever seen a video card in a computer get a little too hot? The computer tends to work fine and the video card gets a little out of sync (electrons are not flowing in the desired manner) and garbage graphics get rendered.

 

[Ophiolite]

ozzie, I am at a loss to understand why
a) hearing voices should be disturbing
b) why learning that they are a fabrication of ones own mind should be disturbing
Please explain. [For the record, I have probably not heard voices.]

 

[ozzie]

ozzie, I am at a loss to understand why
a) hearing voices should be disturbing
b) why learning that they are a fabrication of ones own mind should be disturbing
Please explain. [For the record, I have probably not heard voices.]

Before I comment firstly I must state that I am Quantum Quacks Brother in law. His work in this field has been a tremendous help to me and others in developing strategies to help develope the psychic confusion into workable solutions.

Why are hearing voices disturbing?

A very good question indeed.

It takes a lot of telling to make sense but I shall try.

If one thinks of the self as a mirror, that everything one is is in someway a reflection of all that surrounds you. Your self is contructed of what you sense. This sensing is reflected and becomes your inspiration for thought.
Thinking is and act of creation. By thinking we create ideas and notions and cogitations. Most often our thoughts are premised in fear , most of the time it is very subtle fears that drives thoughts such as worrying, speculations etc.

We are aware of our thoughts because we are aware of their reflection. The mirror that reflects our thoughts is our imagination or as some would call it our "white board" in our minds. It is on this white board we construct our thoughts.

Now this whiteboard is our most intimate reflection of who we are.

There is nothing more precious to our self than our thoughts in reflection.

The content of our thoughts is generated by what we sense as we extrapolate what we know with what we sense and generate those thoughts.

Hearing voices is hearing our selves or hearing our thoughts. It is iimpossible to separate the self from it's reflection regardless of how seeminly false the reflection becomes.

You find yourself listening to your thoughts and realise that they appear to be someone elses. Immediately a state of terror prevails. Your most intimate reflection where no secrets are kept is now infiltrated by what seems to be someone elses content.

They are compelling and unable to be escaped from simply because they are you and everything you thought you were. But they are now distortion of you. So hearing voices that are not directly your own is terrifying to most people.
In a previous post I explained how whilst the voices appear to be coming from external sources that is not the case directly but only in reflection.

The person has acquired the ability to pick out a voice or voices from the reflected whitenoise in his head and reflect it in the form of a voice that attempts to emmulate the voice he has tuned into.
So the victims reflective imagination is now reflecting something that is alien to the victim but because it is his most intimate companion and usually his own self his sense of identity and integrity of self is diminished.

Because this is reinforced by regular evidence in our peoples behaviour, for some this evidence may be words spoken and actions made by others, it may be reinforced by other so called coincidences that the now paranoid victim exagerates and amplifies in there minds thus driving the peron into a state of extreme anxiety.

How ever once a person is informed as to the nature of his experience his ability to deal with it increases dramatically. But to do so the reality of the telepathic mind must be included in that explanation. Because the source of the reflection is external, usually picking up on other peoples subconscious thoughts and with a heavy does of fear turning them into the nightmare of amplified auditory perception.

It is by accepting the reality of the telepathic mind that allows the victim to improve his condition. By denying the reality of the telepathic mind places the victim in a non productive and eventualy self destructive position.

b) why learning that they are a fabrication of ones own mind should be disturbing

Another very good question and thanks for the opportuntity.

The victim is caught between at least two very strong belief systems.

He knows that what he is experiencing is very real he knows that his imagination is distorting what he senses, but most importantly he knows that the source is external.

So the victim will on one hand agree that it is in part a fabrication but will be unable to agree no matter how much denial he struggles to create that the voices are entirely a fabrication.

To deny the reflection of your own thoughts is to effectively destroy any integrity that you have left.

You must realise that the victim is well aware of what the word "self-delusion" means. They have in most cases already had to deal with the notion that their lives are going to end up in a hostel for the homeless or walking joke for most people to play with. They know that the diiagnosis of schizophrenia means statistically they have not long to live. [suicide]
For most they spend most of the waken life attempting to convince themselves that they are self-deluded. Some succeed but most don't. However telling yourself you are deluded does not alter the truth.

So a victims greatest chalenge is to deal with the duality that society has forced upon him. All a fabrication and not a fabrication. Even if his voices are a distorted reflection of himself they are still a part of who he is.

His voices are everything he fears about himself and other people. The fear is in his face so to speak.

I am not denying that there is an element of fabrication. Certainly the imagination is playing up. Certainly the imagination is distorted by the persons own fears. So it is easy to simply claim they are an entire fabrication. But to achieve success one has to understand why this fabricating is going on. What causes this imagination to reflect such things?

Once the source of inspiration is recognised as being external as already realised, the victim can now reconcile all the beliefs his fear has been generating. If one removes the validity of external stimulous triggering the imagination the victim can not reconcile those beliefs.

As I said earlier even if the medical profession allowed for the possibility of pheromone stimulous the victims situation improves dramatically. As those pheromones are already accepted as external and possibly alien. It is the undeniable realisation that the voices have an external origin that is so hard to accept by the victim who can not deny it's truth and the medical profession who must by vrtue of a lack of scientific evidence deny it's truth.

 

[ozzie]

I don't think the interpretation of the original message is the intended one. I'll try to break it down in more detail and it only applies to BlackWinded and yourself if what has been asserted by both of you about yourselves represents the truth.

* Both of your brains have one or more sections that are slightly out of sync with regards to electrical frequency.
* As a result, involuntary experiential information is being generated exclusivly by the brain and delivered to the perception center.
* The content of the involuntary experiential information IS hallucination (no matter how intense) and can be influenced by emotion and external stimulus.
* The human brain and body have no ability to perceive the future, read other people's thoughts, send thoughts to other people, etc. In other words, no psychic ability.
* In both of your cases, the content of the involuntary experiential information is being accepted as "telepathy, clairvoyance, etc." (very attractive fantasy ideas) rather than "hallucination" (reality).

My question, is whether or not you can think of better ways to manage the symptoms and your emotional health without accepting as truth the fantasy that the symptoms are really "telepathy, clairvoyance, etc."?

The pheromones example is cool. It demonstrates the external environment can influence the content of a hallucination and doesn't take into account the source of the hallucination (which is completely internalized). Let's not forget the cause of schizophrenia, it's erroneous electrical frequency governance in the brain.

Ever seen a video card in a computer get a little too hot? The computer tends to work fine and the video card gets a little out of sync (electrons are not flowing in the desired manner) and garbage graphics get rendered.

The main cause for erronaous electrical frequencies is due to the state of hyper tension in teh amount of brain signalling that is occuring.

The brain is a very senstive and precarious organ. It is like a crystal glass in its' fragility.
It is not all that hard to imagine what it is like to have a brain that is overloaded. Shit.....after spending 11 hours running a business every day it is easy to see how the brain can become hyper electric. The excess tension in a schizophrenic person is probably 7 to 8 times the tension I experience in running a business or you experience over a heavy day.
The amount of anxiety determines the psycho accelleration. But every thing has it's limitations. The brain will misfire, neurons will fail and synaptic messaging will get confused. This is entirely understandable.
So the question is how do we lower the hyper state of the brain?

Medications are a great help, but do they have any chance of solving the issue of external stimulous that triggers these psychotoc events?
Possibly by lowering the demand on the brain by slowing the synaptic functions, then allowing for therapy to commence. [ this is normal procedure unfortunately also normally underfunded as well]

However once external sources are recognised the brain demand diminsihes dramatically, synaptic firing become more stable, the fear factor decreases and over time [ normally many years ] the victim can get back to leading a normal life even if he has the belief in psychic pheno he is still capable of funtioning. The belief of psychic pheno is irrelevant to the issue. Just believing and experiencing the psychic pheno does not immediately gain the label of schizophrenia. May be the label or mystic eccentric would be more appropriate. [ better to be an eccentric mystic than to be locked up in a padded cell ]
It is at the moment an unproven and in many ways an unprovable pheno and until it is proven conclusively the mystic will always be considered as an eccentric.
As I said I live all my time experincing psychic pheno, I may have a thousand events in any given day. But to me it is no longer important to worry too much about it. I devote my time to finding a way to proving it's validity because once this is done the rest is easy.
I am already getting near 80% success in a double blind psychic task when it is a comfortable 100% I'll go public.
Take the money it gains and devote it to therapies for these so called schizophrenics and other serious mental illnessess of the psychotopic genre.

Once it is proven in a way that is irrefutable the medical profession will change it's approach to the issue of mental health and it's treatments.

So sure I experinence events that may be considered as symptoms of schizpophrenia but they are not schizophrenic.

Any way what the hell is of value in the term schizophreinia to start with.

QQ's use of Acute Sensory Disorder I think is a much better and useful diagnosis term.

 

[ozzie]

Just an example of the feedback recieved when this issue is apporached in a more constructive way:

A Response by M C, California USA


"WOW. I like this. Particularly from a sufferer’s point of view..



I can’t tell you how much comfort it gave me to hear from you that I wasn’t just stupid and/or crazy to be thinking the thoughts that I was thinking.

In our overactive minds, we create connections and find significance in insignificant, unconnected events. And this was (sometimes is) my reality. And I found it utterly frustrating to hear from people that I should just not believe what I already believed. It was liberating, and yet scary, to think that I might be right.



You’re right in recognizing the person’s ability to perceive as being real, because it is real, and then your next question to me was “Why?”. This caused me to look deeper into what I was experiencing. It gave me comfort and strengthened my belief in and view of God and helped me to give purpose and meaning to what I was experiencing.



The similarity to this approach is striking to a form of therapy that exists for Borderline Personality Disorder. Are you familiar with that? It’s also called emotional intensity disorder and it affects about 1-2 million Americans. It causes the person to experience each situation to a fully charged emotional level, and they frequently are very frightened people who act in harsh, angry ways. It’s hard to treat but the recommended treatment today is called Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT). It consists of accepting the patient the way they are and also accepting the need to change (thus the term Dialectical, accepting two seemingly opposite themes).



Your idea seems revolutionary to the field of schizophrenia and also interestingly similar to this field’s approach. The thing that I like about your approach is the respect that it gives to the individual. You hit the nail on the head when you said society’s reality does not accept the other person’s. By recognizing the person’s reality as real, you’re recognizing the person as significant.



It was an extremely exciting proposition when you said that my perception was founded. I felt like for the first time someone was saying I wasn’t stupid, or self-absorbed, or just crazy. Because according to my perceptions, the delusions I was experiencing were real.



I think you should also recognize society’s reality as being real. You didn’t say it wasn’t, but I think to be fair you should say that both realities are real in a sense. I mean perception is relative anyway.
C/o A new Approach to Mental health
http://www.paygency.com/anewapproach.htm
web published by my Brother in law QQ

 

[Ophiolite]

Ozzie, thank you for your detailed response to my earlier query. There are several things you say which make good sense, but others which I find difficult to accept, and which seem uneccessary to your central thesis. However, before raising these points I want to reflect on the totality of your post more thoroughly. Thanks again.

Oh, one statement that simply did not ring true: "Most often our thoughts are premised in fear ." Did you mean this to apply to all people, most of the time, or to those who 'hear voices'. I will readily accept the latter if you tell me it is so, but the former does not square with my sense of reality.

 

[ozzie]

Ozzie, thank you for your detailed response to my earlier query. There are several things you say which make good sense, but others which I find difficult to accept, and which seem uneccessary to your central thesis. However, before raising these points I want to reflect on the totality of your post more thoroughly. Thanks again.

Oh, one statement that simply did not ring true: "Most often our thoughts are premised in fear ." Did you mean this to apply to all people, most of the time, or to those who 'hear voices'. I will readily accept the latter if you tell me it is so, but the former does not square with my sense of reality.

Thanks for your constructive assessment.
Thoughts premised in fear......
Let me ask this question:
When we worry what is the purpose of worrying?

When you worry about keeping your job or your performance at work, or what TV program to watch or which club to go to or what are you going to do in your spare time?

What do think is the genesis of this thought or thinking?
self concern is premised in fear. Things that are of self interest like for instance "not making a mistake" or "wanting to put on a brave face" or "wanting to make a good impression". Self esteem issues about harming our own vested interests by wrong action or wanting to please others.

It could even be said that what keeps people sane is the fear of insanity.
Fear is our primary motivator and it is inherant in all our activities.
Our adrenal system responds automatically to fear. Our adrenal system is our primary energy trigger.
In a person suffering the confusion as I described the adrenal system is in over load. Hyper anxiety is present leading to brain dysfunction and in some cases catatonia and extreme paranoia.

Hightened vigilence and intolerance to external pressures.
Not unlike someone living in a war zone. Contantly in fear of their lives.

When fear is at a normal level it hardly is noticed by the thinker but once it is heightened it becomes very prevalent in driving our thinking.

 

[Ophiolite]

Sorry, ozzie, I simply do not accept your premise here. While I acknowledge that fear can be an important element in our psychology I cannot accept its universal presence that you propose.
I find Maslow's work, although old, to be a very helpful way of looking at what drives our thinking. You are probably familiar with it.
For those who are not Maslow defined basic human needs that underpin out behaviour. He set these in a heirarchy, noting that until the most fundamental need was satisfied, the next would be ignored and so on. This is the heirarchy, from highest to lowest:

Self Actualisation - Achieving your own individual potential
Esteem - Valuing yourself and receiving recognition from others
Belonging - Love, affection, being part of groups
Safety - shelter, housing, removal from danger
Physiological - Food, health, sleep

I have no doubt that fear plays a key role in the lower levels, but it is effectively absent from the higher levels. You appear to be describing the mental life of individuals who are trapped in the middle or lower level. Yes. Here fear could be an integral part of their mental life. It does not apply at the levels of Esteem and Self Actualisation.
I agree that adrenalin can be a powerful energy trigger, but it need not be associated with fear. Quite the reverse.
I often teach. I am good at it. On those occasions when I am great (and my self actualisation is directed towards making those occasions common, not rare) I experience a massive adrenalin surge. There is no fear associated with this- it is pure triumph.
I understand what you are saying, I shall even presume to say I may understand why you are saying it. However, I do not think it is a comprehensive description of what directs the tenor of our mental life. By ignoring the mental states possible when the lower levels of the heirarchy are satisfied you seem to be depriving yourself, and those who you counsel, of a hugely positive experience.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

The main cause for erronaous electrical frequencies is due to the state of hyper tension in teh amount of brain signalling that is occuring.

The brain is a very senstive and precarious organ. It is like a crystal glass in its' fragility.
It is not all that hard to imagine what it is like to have a brain that is overloaded. Shit.....after spending 11 hours running a business every day it is easy to see how the brain can become hyper electric. The excess tension in a schizophrenic person is probably 7 to 8 times the tension I experience in running a business or you experience over a heavy day.
The amount of anxiety determines the psycho accelleration. But every thing has it's limitations. The brain will misfire, neurons will fail and synaptic messaging will get confused. This is entirely understandable.
So the question is how do we lower the hyper state of the brain?

Medications are a great help, but do they have any chance of solving the issue of external stimulous that triggers these psychotoc events?
Possibly by lowering the demand on the brain by slowing the synaptic functions, then allowing for therapy to commence. [ this is normal procedure unfortunately also normally underfunded as well]

However once external sources are recognised the brain demand diminsihes dramatically, synaptic firing become more stable, the fear factor decreases and over time [ normally many years ] the victim can get back to leading a normal life even if he has the belief in psychic pheno he is still capable of funtioning. The belief of psychic pheno is irrelevant to the issue. Just believing and experiencing the psychic pheno does not immediately gain the label of schizophrenia. May be the label or mystic eccentric would be more appropriate. [ better to be an eccentric mystic than to be locked up in a padded cell ]
It is at the moment an unproven and in many ways an unprovable pheno and until it is proven conclusively the mystic will always be considered as an eccentric.
As I said I live all my time experincing psychic pheno, I may have a thousand events in any given day. But to me it is no longer important to worry too much about it. I devote my time to finding a way to proving it's validity because once this is done the rest is easy.
I am already getting near 80% success in a double blind psychic task when it is a comfortable 100% I'll go public.
Take the money it gains and devote it to therapies for these so called schizophrenics and other serious mental illnessess of the psychotopic genre.

Once it is proven in a way that is irrefutable the medical profession will change it's approach to the issue of mental health and it's treatments.

So sure I experinence events that may be considered as symptoms of schizpophrenia but they are not schizophrenic.

Any way what the hell is of value in the term schizophreinia to start with.

QQ's use of Acute Sensory Disorder I think is a much better and useful diagnosis term.

Ozzie,

You've presented alot of great information and have basically answered my question by asserting that psychic phenomonea is real and you can achive nearly an 80% success rate with some psychic ability.

Now you've really got my interest and I would like to know a little more about the ability.

Thanks.

 

[Ericc]

Has anyone noticed that Blackwinded is no longer posting to the thread, hope your ok girl!

 

[ozzie]

Sorry, ozzie, I simply do not accept your premise here. While I acknowledge that fear can be an important element in our psychology I cannot accept its universal presence that you propose.
I find Maslow's work, although old, to be a very helpful way of looking at what drives our thinking. You are probably familiar with it.
For those who are not Maslow defined basic human needs that underpin out behaviour. He set these in a heirarchy, noting that until the most fundamental need was satisfied, the next would be ignored and so on. This is the heirarchy, from highest to lowest:

Self Actualisation - Achieving your own individual potential
Esteem - Valuing yourself and receiving recognition from others
Belonging - Love, affection, being part of groups
Safety - shelter, housing, removal from danger
Physiological - Food, health, sleep

I have no doubt that fear plays a key role in the lower levels, but it is effectively absent from the higher levels. You appear to be describing the mental life of individuals who are trapped in the middle or lower level. Yes. Here fear could be an integral part of their mental life. It does not apply at the levels of Esteem and Self Actualisation.
I agree that adrenalin can be a powerful energy trigger, but it need not be associated with fear. Quite the reverse.
I often teach. I am good at it. On those occasions when I am great (and my self actualisation is directed towards making those occasions common, not rare) I experience a massive adrenalin surge. There is no fear associated with this- it is pure triumph.
I understand what you are saying, I shall even presume to say I may understand why you are saying it. However, I do not think it is a comprehensive description of what directs the tenor of our mental life. By ignoring the mental states possible when the lower levels of the heirarchy are satisfied you seem to be depriving yourself, and those who you counsel, of a hugely positive experience.

A very interesting post, Ophiolite.
I guess you are quite correct when you say that persons suffering Schizophrenia are caught up in the lower levels of the suggested Hierachy.
Certainly there is no doubt that food, shelter, survival and the need for self protection are paramount in their minds. Fears of not belonging, of not being accepted by the group, of being humiliated, of not being loved or lovable, of not achieving your potential are also present. Asking a "bag lady" about self actuation and personality development is like speaking Chinese to a native from the planet Mars.

At this level of existance they unfortunately due to years of conditioning and living n the fringe of society have not the luxury of the calmness neccessary for higher forms of personal development. Sure you can meet with them over a coffee and discuss self esteem issues but all they are there for is the free coffee and if they are really lucky a botted cigerette.
However most can recount how they first experienced exrtreme perceptions, and how a life tme of high anxiety followed.
I personally know of 3 people [ all under the age of 30] who have suicided in the past 4 years due to the paranoid ramblings of their lives. All claiming governement conspiracy and the futility of their lives as significant. A bag lady or a bag man are survivors, they have managed to avoid suicide at an earlier age.

Ophialite, you do of course know the benefits of listening and how listening is one our greatest abilities that if we stopped just long enough to listen properly to a psychotic person we might just hear what they are trying so desparately to say.
Blackwinded is attempting to say something. We can either listen to what she is saying, or we can tell her that what she is saying is all wrong. I vote for listening.

The thing that is often over looked is that victims of paranoid schizophrenia all share similar symptoms. The description of their behaviours both metaphysical and physical all have a common theme to them.

Fear of harm by unknown sources. [ conspiracy theries]
Florid self justfications for those fears.
And a compelling belief that what they are sensing appears to be external to them.
and no dount others.

Now I can fully relate to all these complaints. As a normal part of every day I can see how these fears can so easilly be manifested in people. in fact these things are present in every ones lives to some degree.
I have come to the conclusion that the victim is actually a composition of all the things in society that makes society what it is.

All the symptoms are simply exagerations of what normally occurs in society but seem to be occuring all at the same time in that victim.

Fortunately in my early days of psychic exposure I always allowed for the possibility of phsychic pheno as being a reality. At first I tried to reject my expereinces as nearly every one around me attempted to ground me by saying that they where all delusions or halucinations. Funnilly enough they invariabley went to church and prayed for my acceptance that prayer was a delusion. [the dichotomy of belief is astounding]

In this state of rejection my life was absolutely hell on earth. A proverbial nightmare, however once I accepted the reality of my experiences and even though I could not prove them to the satisfaction of the skeptic I sort out ways of sanely dealing with thsoe ongoing experiences.
My motto was and is "Truth is not a question of belief"

So I know what rejecting your own reality does to you.

 

[ozzie]

Ozzie,

You've presented alot of great information and have basically answered my question by asserting that psychic phenomonea is real and you can achive nearly an 80% success rate with some psychic ability.

Now you've really got my interest and I would like to know a little more about the ability.

Thanks.

The thing is as I have already have said, the brain is like a bell it is so sentitive to it's ambience [ via the senses.] The brain is also capable of sensing directly. Possibly you have heard of experiments of persons living brains with part of the skul removed. There is no doubt that we are very receptive to external stimuli. The Meninges [membrane that surrounds the brain] is responsible in the main for filtering these stimuli. However in this field of endevour it suffers from a certain inflamation, a sort of low level of meningitis. The symptoms are like a dull "woozy" headache. Tending to give the perception a surreality to it.

The 12 years of study and disciplined self therapies have only just now been able to return a 80 % average success rate. And this in the comfort of home and not on some stage in front of a super critical audience. Psychic distraction is a huge problem.

If we accept the reality of the psychic for just a moment, we have to accept that there are many facets to it. In fact as you already know there is a plethora of attributes. Ranging from fortune telling to clairvoyence, clairaudience, precog, tarrot readings, soul journeys, astrology, numerology, isometrics, telekenisis, mind reading, cohersion, possessions, exorcism, religion, santanism, witch craft, [wicca] sharmanism, uegy boards, cross dimensionalism, talking to dead people, aliens, and the list just goes on and on.
So even if we assume just for a moment that there is an element of truth to all of these past times, you can gather that the realm of the psychic can be a very confusing realm in deed.

Just the issue of aliens or extraterrestrials fills many a book and TV program.

So the psychic realm is full of fantasy and vivid imaginations as well as areas that are less imaginary.
To get to even 80% is a major achievement 80% average on a task list of over 5000 set tasks. [involving two sealed rooms and two people]
But even this is tenuous. Tensing and anxiety play a very significant role. Empathically picking up on all the interests and fears of other persons silently witnessing the tests from where ever they are, Earth bound or extraterrestrial. [ the uiverse is an awfully big place but as QQ would say it can fit on the end of pin] in the psychic realm distance is an illusion. The universe exists inside your head with out distance but out side your head with distance.

So the issue of sustainable proof is a big issue and a very difficult issue to solve.