Christlam?

jus... i found this info on a different thread in this forum... it explains some of what you were sayin in your last post... this is mainly for jenyar and new life... check it out.. id post a link to this thread but LIGHTBEING has a ton of posts in it and id have to direct you to a particular post.. instead, its copy and paste :D
this is thanks to LIGHTBEING..

Haru “Horus” is symbolic of the Rising Son. Jesus is also symbolic of the rising son. Jesus was the son (sun) who died (set) on the cross by crucifixion and he will resurrect (rise) according to the Christians. When the son came down and apparently sets or dies into the darkness and he raises or resurrects back to life. It is the story of the Christian’s God Jesus.

What religious fanatics don’t realize is that if the sun shuts down that would be the end of life as you know it. This is what Egipt teaches about the sun: If I say I worship the sun, people say oh that’s sun worship. I know that. The reason why I say worship the sun, s-u-n and laugh at you who worship the son, s-o-n is because my sun is an obvious provider. If my sun doesn’t come up in the morning, we can chalk it. Jesus (the son) went to sleep 2,000 years ago, has not gotten up yet, and you all are still doing fine. Yet you are still waiting for your son to rise. If my sun doesn’t rise each day, it’s over for Jesus and you. Now with this reasoning, I can live without your son. Can you live without your son? Can you live without my sun? The answer is simply NO.

If you look throughout Egyptian history, you see that many of the characteristics of Horus existed long before 2,000 years ago, and parallels that of Jesus of 2,000 years ago. For instance it is said:


Jesus performed the miracle of turning five loaves of bread in one case and seven in another to feed the many multitudes of people.
to
This ties in with Horus who makes seven loaves of bread for Osiris to live by.

Yashua is in the desert and being tempted by the Devil, who said to him, “If he was the son of God, turn a stone into bread.”
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The stone of the desert is symbolic of Set.

As the child Horus comes to the Earth, then enters matter or becomes flesh. He is born as the word of his father who becomes Seb, who consort is Nu whose other name is Meri.
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Which is the same as Jesus coming down to Earth as the word of God in the flesh having and adopted father of Joseph (Seb) and Mary his mother.

Jesus said “I and the father are one. He that seeth me, seeth him that sent me.”
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Horus is the father seen in the son.

Jesus claims to be the son in whom the father is revealed.
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Horus was the light of the world. The light that is represented by the symbolic eye. The son of salvation.

Yashua is called the ‘Good Sheperd’ with the lamb or kid on his shoulder.
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Horus was the good shepherd who carries the crook upon his shoulder.

Jesus is called the Lamb of God, the bread of life, the truth and the light.
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Horus is called the Lamb of God, the bread of life, the truth and the light.

Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
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Horus is was baptized by Anupp the Baptizer.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the ‘House of Bread.’
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Horus was born in Annu, the ‘Place of Bread.’

Jesus the Christ.
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Horus the Krist.

The star in the east that indicated the birthplace of Jesus.
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The star, as announcer of the child Horus.

The blind man given sight by Jesus.
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The blind mummy made to see by Horus.

Jesus walking on water.
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Horus walking on water.

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON. This is just to give you clear overstanding that the Jesus of your bible came from the Egyptian diety of Horus, and Christianity came from the various stories from Egypt. The story was just reiterated as most stories in your bible are. They are stories from old tablets such as the Enuma Elish, and the Giglamesh Epic. The names were just changed, in different cultures. In fact, the names of the bible aren’t even names, they are titles. For example the story of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar in the bible is just the story of ANU, Antum, and Iyd in the Enuma Elish. The story of Cain and Abel in the bible is just the story of Osiris and Set in the Egyptian records.

source: The Body Parts Of God
by Kayti - Sent Hotep known as Shandra Stubbs
student of Egipt


The name Horus is mentioned in the Bible. If you look in Matthew 4:3 where you find the statement “the Son [huios] of God [theos]” referring to Jesus, in the Greek language, you will see Huios Theos. It is not that it is not there. It is just for those who will take the time to research and find it because they want the facts. The Greek word Huios is from the Egyptian word Horus or Haru.

Source: Jesus Found In Egipt


Probably the most obvious is the story of Osiris, Isis, Horus and Set, or at least their final positions, along with some of the surrounding icons. I will not repeat the story itself, but in the end, Osiris becomes the god of the heavens while Set is outcast as the evil lord of the underworld. Isis is the mother of Horus, who in tern becomes a living god in the form of the pharaoh. The associations of Osiris and the Christian supreme being, Isis as the Mother Mary Horus as Jesus and Set as the devil are obvious, and ancient icons depict Isis suckling Horus almost exactly as Mary would later be shown suckling the baby Jesus.


One of the main reasons why I don't believe in Christianity is because they stole ideas and stories from earlier religions and civilizations.
 
Originally posted by jusmeig
Hi NewLife,

I will have a go again at explaining myself:

Basically I would argue that religions are not founded on the stories of the prophets, Saints etc.... These tools were employed as a delivery method. Names, places and events were used to deliver messages. Such as:

The 10 commandments. If a member of christianity wants to believe that Moses brougth the tablets down from a mountain....then so be it. All the information contained on the tablets was already well known in Rome 1000 years before.

In Roman culture there was a republic based on rules and similar values..ie Do not murder, do not sleep with your neighbours wife etc....I assure Christianity and Islam have similar rules and values, therefore how can it be divine if it was known 1000 years before.....thought to the Romans by their own gods. Can you see were I am comming from?

Therefore my point is this, the information is not divine. It is by no means divine. The information recieved helps people co-exist peacefully. Islamics live in peace with each other, as do Christians (Usually). The fundamental beliefs they have, which is known as their divine religion...are facts discovered over 3000 years ago. Not by Jesus, god, Budda, Alla or any other such being. They were discovered by man.

in regards to where these laws (that are universal to every culture) came from, it is my belief that when God created us He instilled these 'morals' (for lack of a better word) into us, naturally when we started making laws we got them from this inherint sense of right and wrong

New Life



quote:
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what stuff do you mean exactly? if you mean sex, God gave it as a gift to married people so we are allowed ot indulge it, in fact it is encouraged, so long as it is within a marriage (i think i said this in another thread too)
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why? why not outside marriage?


quote:
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drugs are prohibited b/c they are mind altering substances that are not healthy for your body (and the body is supposed to be a temple to the living God)
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how is the body a temple to god?

*as i understand it, it is b/c He created you so your body and the simple fact that you have life are displays of Gods power and when you become a christian you become 'His child' and 'your body is no longer your own' it is Gods so you need to treat it with respect......also christians are not to be of this world (we're on VISA's here, visting) and so we're kinda renting our bodies till we go home (like a car)


quote:
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and chastity is to keep you pure and honouring to yourself, your prospective spouse, and your god, as well as to keep you outta trouble
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i think this one takes you back to the first question i asked..

*yes


quote:
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when adam and eve took the apple from the snake they introduced sin
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who put the apple there?

*God........i believe that everything needs balance and the apple was the balance to His paradise
 
sycoindian,

Thank you for that excellent post. If that does not make people question the very foundations of religion then nothing wil. I had no idea at all that Egyptian religion was so strikingly similar to Christian/Muslim belief......makes you wonder.

To New Life,

I am going to rap this up, as it appears we have hit an empass. You believe in Jesus as god or our lord etc... I believe that no man or religion can possibly hope to explain who "god" is. I believe that something started it all off, but I know that we will probably never know!

But the point still stands, and many new ones have opened up.....so heres a few to get you all thinking.

I saw this on another post: The beliefs of a religion tend to coincide with the beliefs of its followers. (ie God wants us to invade this country and do what is "right"). Therefore religion can be viewed as dynamic, constantly changing to suit the needs of its followers.

The gods of every religion did not give there followers the great insight of common simple law.......People worked this out themselves. Did god send man to the moon. No, people did. This is the main point I want to stress.

NO RELIGION HAS A PERFECT ANSWER TO THE HUMAN CONDITION, BECAUSE EVERY RELIGION CAN BE EASILY DECONSTRUCTED AS SHOWN ABOVE.
 
Then why do we have Christianity all over the world, and Egyptian deities such as Horus aren't even worshipped in Egypt anymore? The similarities are interesting, but if they predate Christianity they seem to predict Jesus' life rather than invalidate it - Christianity grew from followers of Jesus, Jews who had Moses and Egypt fresh in their memories. The Israelites who worked as slaves in Egypt for hundreds of years must have had knowledge of the Egyptian gods.

Remember that Moses was also thought to be a god by the Egyptians. Why did he disown his Egyptian upbringing, sided with the slaves, and write down the ten commandments?

jusmeig,

The God of the Bible has His own will and plans. Very frequently His own people did not do what He wanted them to. Therefore your "deconstruction" doesn't hold. The Israelites, Jews and Christians do not serve a God who submits to them, but a God who want them to submit to Him in certain ways. In the Old Testament His people had to fight agsint invading armies and defend themselves, much like America is fighting against terrorism now. Are you saying that if God existed, no wars would have been fought, and we wouldn't have been able to go to the moon? Maybe then those seven astronauts wouldn't have died. Did God send them to the moon? No people did. Why then did they die? You can't blame God and religion for everything that goes wrong or that is unanswerable anymore - those days are over. Now you have to start looking at what happens in the world and ask yourself whether we do not, after all, need salvation from our "human condition".

God created both the sun and the moon. Whether you fly up to them, worship them or merely look at them through telescopes is your own business.

Happy deconstructing.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
In the Old Testament His people had to fight agsint invading armies and defend themselves, much like America is fighting against terrorism now.
Actually, I think that the story has them pilfering the Egyptians, and then wandering around the area smiting whoever got in their way.
 
Originally posted by jusmeig
To New Life,

I am going to rap this up, as it appears we have hit an empass. You believe in Jesus as god or our lord etc... I believe that no man or religion can possibly hope to explain who "god" is. I believe that something started it all off, but I know that we will probably never know!

But the point still stands, and many new ones have opened up.....so heres a few to get you all thinking.

I saw this on another post: The beliefs of a religion tend to coincide with the beliefs of its followers. (ie God wants us to invade this country and do what is "right"). Therefore religion can be viewed as dynamic, constantly changing to suit the needs of its followers.

The gods of every religion did not give there followers the great insight of common simple law.......People worked this out themselves. Did god send man to the moon. No, people did. This is the main point I want to stress.

NO RELIGION HAS A PERFECT ANSWER TO THE HUMAN CONDITION, BECAUSE EVERY RELIGION CAN BE EASILY DECONSTRUCTED AS SHOWN ABOVE. [/B]

I agree to disagree with you, however I must comment on your points here....

first, if I think God wants me to go somewhere and do something, that is not a belief of my religion, that is a belief of myself... a belief of my religion would be that Jesus died and rose again......and often times there is something we want to do that isnt 'right' but we justify doing it by saying God wants us to so just b/c someone says they are doing something b/c God wants them to doesnt make it so......especially if it is 'wrong'


second you are correct that no religion has a PERFECT answer, however some are on the right track and just because we (as humans) cannot understand everything doesnt make it false or deconstuctable!
 
TO CONCLUDE, as DEBATE IS LOST

Firstly, I believe Sciforums to be an excellent service. However I would like to see a forum where members of a religion do not refer to ancient, unprovable, irrelevant texts.

Can we all agree on just one point. The bible and the Koran were written a very long time ago. They were written based on apparent eye withness accounts.

Can we all agree as one that man wrote these books, hence the reason they are in material form?

Can we all agree that man is falliable?

Can we therefore conclude that the bible/koran were written by beings that make mistakes, have a tendency to drastically overexagerate and bend truths to suit there own needs?

HISTORY IS WRITTEN BY THE VICTOR MY FRIENDS. THE STORIES UNDERLYING YOUR religions ARE DRASTICALLY PREVERTED VERSIONS OF THE ORIGINALS. NO PERSON SHOULD DEBATE THIS AS WE HAVE ALL PLAYED CHINESE WISHPERS!

People need to see religion for what it is. A set of guidelines so we can live in peace and avoid conflict. This is not divine.....IT IS COMMON SENSE!
 
Originally posted by jusmeig
It appears to me, from reading the many posts on this site. That Christians and Islamics seem to use this site as a resource for attacking each others faith.......please refrain from telling me how bad I am and how much I will suffer for posting this!
If we were to discuss the good side of each religion, there would be no much of controversy since we will find that there are lots and lots of parallels. Advocacy for love, respect, do not commit murder, do not steal, etc, etc. In fact, on the good side, any religion will do.
The controversy starts when an individual whats to translate his faith in his own terms, avoid and ignore facts, as shameful as they may be or to pretend that one religion is better or above the rest.
….That’s when we begging to have controversy. There’s no winning battle in religion, religion followers and practitioners have committed barbarities and all sorts of abuses for many hundred years, all against the same laws of own religions.
:m:
 
Justmeig

The manuscripts we use today ARE the originals insofar as they haven't been changed since they were first accepted by the church. The emphasis is on the message and meaning of Christ's life, death and resurrection. No amount of spelling, grammar or textual differences could change this message - or it's application to your life. The different gospels in the Bible are different applications of the same message.

Galatians 1:6-10 (NASB)

1.I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
2.which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
3.But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
4.As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
5.For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

The message was sacred to everybody involved. It would not be changed to follow individual agendas, and there were many safeguards to prevent this from happening. To strengthen the case: The Scrolls found at Qumran were in agreement with the texts already in use. Mere coincidence?

I won't go further into the writing and copying of manuscripts. There are about 24 000 manuscripts to compare, and if you are worried about canonization - the protestant selection is the most conservative one, i.e. you have less chance of missing the point.

If you are interested in the integrity of the Bible, you can go here for an introduction: http://www.gospeloutreach.net/bible.html
 
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Originally posted by Jenyar

The manuscripts we use today ARE the originals insofar as they haven't been changed since they were first accepted by the church.
Two quick points:
  1. All you've said is that, after 3 centuries if internal clique fights and purges, after 3 centuries of interpretation, harmonization, interpolation, and redaction, the church victors finally settled on a party line.
  2. Unfortunately, even this underwhelming assertion is inaccurate. Is your bible based on the Septuagint, the Peshitta, one of the variants of the Massoretic text, or perhaps one of the Targums? Is its New Testament simply a translation of the Codex Vaticanus or Codex Sinaiticus, or does it include later additions/modification?
I suggest that you curl up with your favorite copy of the Sophia of Jesus Christ or the Gospel of Mary, and ponder what your Christology would look like if one of those early votes or purges had turned out differently. You might then give some thought to 1 John 5:7-8:
Before toV pneu'ma kaiV toV u{dwr kaiV toV ai|ma, the Textus Receptus reads ejn tw'/ oujranw'/, oJ pathvr, oJ lovgo", kaiV toV a{gion pneu'ma, kaiV ou|toi oiJ trei'" e{n eijsi. 5:8 kaiV trei'" eijsin oiJ marturou'nte" ejn th'/ gh'/ (“in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 5:8 And there are three that testify on earth”). This reading, the infamous Comma Johanneum, has been known in the English-speaking world through the King James translation.

However, the evidence—both external and internal—is decidedly against its authenticity.

- see Comma Johanneum - emphasis added
 
Aah... What could have been - but is not. Why didn't those votes turn out differently? Questioning John 1:1 does not change what the other scriptures say:

Numbers 11:17
I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take of the Spirit that is on you and put the Spirit on them. They will help you carry the burden of the people so that you will not have to carry it alone.

Numbers 24:2
When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him ...

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to me, O Jacob,
Israel, whom I have called:
I am he;
I am the first and I am the last.

...
15 I, even I, have spoken;
yes, I have called him.
I will bring him,
and he will succeed in his mission.
16 Come near me and listen to this:
"From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
at the time it happens, I am there."
And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me,
with his Spirit.


Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.[ 8:15 Or adoption] And by him we cry, "Abba,[ 8:15 Aramaic for Father] Father."

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

Acts 2
32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. 33Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
35until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."


Rev.1
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the sevenfold Spirit 5 before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
6To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
7Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
...
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.


Jesus Himself said:
Mark 12:29
"The most important one [commandment]," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

but Jesus' life was through the Spirit, who was his Father:
1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
 
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Originally posted by Jenyar
Aah... What could have been - but is not. Why didn't those votes turn out differently? Questioning John 1:1 does not change what the other scriptures say:

Numbers 11:17
I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take of the ........bla......bla......bla......bla.....en knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

was there a point to this or do you get paid 10 cents for every bible quote you post?
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
You apparently believe that if you splatter your post with snippits of speculation and fiction no one will notice that you've changed the subject. As you wish, but at least be thorough. For example:
  • Mt 28:19
    Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
and:
  • Mt 10:5-6
    These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.
  • Mt 15:22-24
    A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
  • Acts 16:6
    Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
BTW, I noticed that you offered no quotes from the Sophia of Jesus Christ or the Gospel of Mary. Too bad ...
 
Changed the subject? From what? You quoted the comma Johanneum as if it represented the whole Bible. In your context I understood it to be an attack on the dogma of the Trinity, and I showed you where we got it from - and not only from the NT.

I do not own or read the Sophia of Jesus Christ or the Gospel of Mary any more than I read the Gnostic gospels of Nag Hammadi. They are not the Word of God as it came out of Jesus mouth. They might be about Jesus and Mary, but they weren't included in the canon for a reason.

By the way: your last three quotes states the authority God has over the preaching of His message - and that people didn't go out willy-nilly and interpreted His words as they saw fit. They were directed.

Acts 19:10
This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.
Acts 19:26
And you see and hear how this fellow Paul has convinced and led astray large numbers of people here in Ephesus and in practically the whole province of Asia. He says that man_made gods are no gods at all.

After the Jews wanted Paul killed, he went on and told them his mission:
21"Then the Lord said to me, 'Go; I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'
 
Hi,

Just a few points. Putting up huge bible or Koran quotes is a cop out. This is the reason why. Firstly you are not viewing them objectivly, as they are usually the texts of your religion of choice. Secondly, they are over 1000 years old, and have changed since they were written.

To Jenyar,

You are not reading my post correctly. In it I clearly state that the teachings of Christ are good. They teach us basic right wrong values which is a "good" thing. I question Jesus and Moses and all the other names you have fired at me. I believe them to to fictional creations used to deliver these messages. I believe the texts are not divine. Just well written. My belief does not change the meaning at all, I am simply saying that the words are of man and not a divine gOd. There is nothing in any holy book that is not the creation of man. What is more, there is nobody that can prove it otherwise.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE refrain from quoting large bodies of biblical text etc.... As I basically skip it to read your conclusions. IF you need to justify your faith by using 2000 year old books then I think you need to look inside yourself for some answers. I am not attacking your religion Jenyar, I am just presenting it and all other religions in a different context, there is nt right or wrong here....so stop bible bashing me!

Jus
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
Changed the subject? From what? You quoted the comma Johanneum as if it represented the whole Bible. In your context I understood it to be an attack on the dogma of the Trinity, and I showed you where we got it from - and not only from the NT.
I could care less how you derive your polytheism. I was explicitly responding to your claim: "The manuscripts we use today ARE the originals insofar as they haven't been changed since they were first accepted by the church. " The claim is absurd. You simply haven't a clue what your talking about.
Originally posted by Jenyar
I do not own or read the Sophia of Jesus Christ or the Gospel of Mary any more than I read the Gnostic gospels of Nag Hammadi. They are not the Word of God as it came out of Jesus mouth.
You have zero evidence as to what, if anything, "came out of Jesus mouth". What you have is heavily edited 3rd hand hearsay at best, and sloppy fiction at worst. Remember that wonderful admonition in John about casting the first stone? In the earliest extant Bibles, the Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus, it is nowhere to be found.
Originally posted by Jenyar
They might be about Jesus and Mary, but they weren't included in the canon for a reason.
No doubt. :rolleyes:
 
Aburd why? Show me what evidence you have that they have changed significantly in content or message since they were first introduced? You gave me one quote - one - questioning the authenticity of one verse. I'm not stupid. I know your eventual aim is to question the authenticity of a god, or The God, based on the scripture we follow. Bad news. My belief is not dependent on the Bible, but it confirms it. It is the root that grew from the seed of truth God planted, Jesus watered, and all Christians since have believed. I cannot tell you what I believe without the Bible, because everything I believe is in the Bible. I believe in God, His creation and His plan for salvation.

Polytheism means 'more than one god'. There is only One God. The God of Adam, Abraham and Jesus. Therefore I am a monotheist.

As for casting the first stone... I presume you don't want me to quote other verses from the Bible confirming that message?
 
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