c20H25N3o: I do not rejoice in death. Please let me state that for the record. I too like you welcome this life for the love that is in the world, the love of my children, the love of my wife.
*************
M*W: So what? We all strive to love and be loved. Do you think YOU are the only member on sciforums who wants and gives love?
*************
c20: But I am not a fantasist as you would have me be. The human being begins as a seed. There is no need to tinker.
*************
M*W: Don't quit your day job. You have no idea what you are talking about. We now understand biomedical technology enough to perform prenatal ultrasonography, amniocentesis, intrauterine corrective surgical manipulation of the growing fetus, and more.... There is plenty need to 'tinker' when tinkering would
ensure a healthy baby. But that's not all. We know how to use stem cells to rejuvenate damaged heart muscle that is in end-stage congestive heart failure. We can now repair motor and sensory neurons in the brain to cure Parkinson's disease as well as schizophrenia and depression. We can now implant stem cells into the diseased pancreas to cure diabetes. Tinkering with the cells of the human body (and our pets) life is becoming longer, and we are challenging death. Research is currently being done to transplant stem cells into the face and neck to rejuvenate our youthful appearance without going under the knife. I foresee that stem cells will be used to cure arthritis and bone disease without invasive surgeries. The best part of this new biomedicine technology is we don't have to kill embryos to do it. In the USA, scientists who received NIH grant funding are not allowed to use embryonic stem cells. However, private organizations such as GlaxoSmithKline and private hospitals CAN and DO utilize embryonic stem cells. The wonderful thing is that we can grow them right in the lab from scratch utilizing one's own bone marrow for stem cell transplantation. Only the ignorant believe this is a sin. Didn't Jesus promise 'everlasting life?'
*************
c20: You will never understand the code of life. Do you not see that for every thing you discover, it will open up new discoveries? For each unit of the code you discover, you will see that even that code is made up of another code and so on and so forth. As clever as you are you cannot begin to understand the mysteries of the human seed. You are scratching the outer layer of an onion, but if you keep chopping away at the onion you will just start to cry.
*************
M*W: Do you understand the code of life? What's wrong with discovering things that prompt further scientific research? Understanding the mysteries of the 'human seed' is what I do for a living. You only show your ignorance. Science is discovered without using religion. I feel certain that Cris is not just scratching an onion. Your analogy is childish.
*************
c20: Your intellect will not allow you to give up. Pride will not allow you to say "This is too complicated for us. Some greater force must be at work here"
*************
M*W: Our intellect and our pride are two different concepts. The only greater force in science is the intellect. The definition of 'pride' is broad. Some people may be proud they lie and steal from others. Pride in science is honorable.
*************
c20: I tell you the truth, man will not discover the code of life for it is not permitted you.
*************
M*W: Man has already discovered the code of life, and it is definitely permitted to be known by all.
*************
c20: You hate the Christian scientist (David F for example) because they say "As amazing as the things are that we know, they all point to the fact that some higher intelligence is at work here"
*************
M*W: No one hates David F. You are putting words in our mouths. You are an evil person, because you spread hate.
*************
c20: Come on Cris, I am sure you are an academic genius but even you have to step down from your fantasy at some time.
*************
M*W: Scientists never step down from their fantasy, because fantasy becomes reality. Cris is more qualified to discuss such matters, but you simply cannot understand anything beyond your religion. You're still living in the Dark Ages. I pity your children.
*************
c20: Can even the most prestigous scientist in the world create a butterfly from scratch? Could you have designed the ribosome from scratch? You want to say "But we are a part of Nature and Nature just is" and then you say "We are a part of nature and must change it to make it stronger". But it is a terrible arrogance and I mean that in a non personal sense. We Christians call that arrogance 'The spirit of the world'.
*************
M*W: You 'christians' are what's wrong with the world.
*************
c20: Let's just hypothesise for one moment that you did indeed manage to tinker with the human seed and reversed its will to die. Of course there would become a terrible population problem so you would then need to expand into the Universe. This is your plan. To boldly go etc etc. But what of those who have gone before you? Those lives that did die? Were those peoples lives for nothing? What of all the injustices done in the flesh? Do you just forget their names? Tell them it's unlucky for them? Do you not see that this is arrogance? To write off humans who have walked before you? And let's suppose you do master cold fusion or some other technology to perform space travel so that you can populate the Universe. What of law and order? Or will you change the human seed to produce flesh made from titanium or some other indestructable substance?
*************
M*W: Tinkering with the human seed has been done since the beginning of time. It's not just new science. The 'oldest profession' was not prostitution. It was midwifery. When Moses was on the Sinai, the Habiru prevented pregnancies in their camels by inserting a pomegranate pit into the camel's uterus so the camel wouldn't be pregnant in the caravan. In the ancient world contraceptives were used in women and men. Ointments made of olive oil, honey, cedar resin, balsam tree juice, lead, myrtle salve, alum, gums, resins, oil of roses and figs were used to prevent pregnancy. In men, the concoction of the above was rubbed on the tip of the penis as well to kill the sperm upon exit.
Abortions were also common in those days. Ox bile, cow parsnip, myrtle, wallflower, bitter legumes were molded into seeds the size of pomegranate pits and inserted into the vagina. Linseed, fenugreek, mallow, marsh mallow, wormwood, absenthium, pepper, honey and myrrh in a long bath inserting this concoction into the vagina while drinking sour wine and eating pungent foods was sure to expel the fetus from the vagina.
Back in ancient days, women had as many babies as they could to help with growing crops and cultivation of the land. It was expected of them. But, they also had these concoctions the midwives used to prevent pregnancy or induce abortions. In the Dark Ages, European midwives placed twigs into the uterus as an abortificant. They soon discovered that seaweed (kelp) called Laminaria worked best, especially if the fetus was more than 12 weeks of age. Believe it or not, laminaria is still used today! There was no 'overpopulation' then, and there is no 'overpopulation' today. The world is not settled evenly.
*************
c20: I love Star Trek, dont get me wrong but I know it's just a cool TV program for kids developed from fantasy.
*************
M*W: I'm not a Trekkie, but I have seen some of the programs, and they were not made just for kids. The stories have morals, and I know plenty of adults who follow Star Trek.
*************
c20: when the program is over, I have to go and make dinner and get my kids bathed and dressed for bed. I read them a story and kiss their little noses. They say "Gudnight dad" and I kiss them again giving them a little squeeze so they know how much I love them. Love is the greatest thing here Cris. Love is, was and will be. God is love and the spirit of love says "Thou shalt have no other gods but me".
*************
M*W: How arrogantly you think that those of us who are atheists don't have love in our lives nor can give love. That's absurd! And we definitely DON'T have any gods we worship! Christianity teaches arrogance like an adrenaline rush. You're not experiencing the truth, but you're arrogantly trying to convince us that you are the only one who is loved or who can love! Give it up! There is no true love to be found in christianity! christianity requires conditional love. All religions require conditions for love. It's only atheists who give love and receive love genuinely without any conditions. If you think atheists do not deserve the cycle of love, then you are a hypocrite, and a lost one, at that.
Why don't you just stick to the things you know. Christianity is NOT your strong suit. You are less educated in christianity than everybody on this forum.
*************
M*W: So what? We all strive to love and be loved. Do you think YOU are the only member on sciforums who wants and gives love?
*************
c20: But I am not a fantasist as you would have me be. The human being begins as a seed. There is no need to tinker.
*************
M*W: Don't quit your day job. You have no idea what you are talking about. We now understand biomedical technology enough to perform prenatal ultrasonography, amniocentesis, intrauterine corrective surgical manipulation of the growing fetus, and more.... There is plenty need to 'tinker' when tinkering would
ensure a healthy baby. But that's not all. We know how to use stem cells to rejuvenate damaged heart muscle that is in end-stage congestive heart failure. We can now repair motor and sensory neurons in the brain to cure Parkinson's disease as well as schizophrenia and depression. We can now implant stem cells into the diseased pancreas to cure diabetes. Tinkering with the cells of the human body (and our pets) life is becoming longer, and we are challenging death. Research is currently being done to transplant stem cells into the face and neck to rejuvenate our youthful appearance without going under the knife. I foresee that stem cells will be used to cure arthritis and bone disease without invasive surgeries. The best part of this new biomedicine technology is we don't have to kill embryos to do it. In the USA, scientists who received NIH grant funding are not allowed to use embryonic stem cells. However, private organizations such as GlaxoSmithKline and private hospitals CAN and DO utilize embryonic stem cells. The wonderful thing is that we can grow them right in the lab from scratch utilizing one's own bone marrow for stem cell transplantation. Only the ignorant believe this is a sin. Didn't Jesus promise 'everlasting life?'
*************
c20: You will never understand the code of life. Do you not see that for every thing you discover, it will open up new discoveries? For each unit of the code you discover, you will see that even that code is made up of another code and so on and so forth. As clever as you are you cannot begin to understand the mysteries of the human seed. You are scratching the outer layer of an onion, but if you keep chopping away at the onion you will just start to cry.
*************
M*W: Do you understand the code of life? What's wrong with discovering things that prompt further scientific research? Understanding the mysteries of the 'human seed' is what I do for a living. You only show your ignorance. Science is discovered without using religion. I feel certain that Cris is not just scratching an onion. Your analogy is childish.
*************
c20: Your intellect will not allow you to give up. Pride will not allow you to say "This is too complicated for us. Some greater force must be at work here"
*************
M*W: Our intellect and our pride are two different concepts. The only greater force in science is the intellect. The definition of 'pride' is broad. Some people may be proud they lie and steal from others. Pride in science is honorable.
*************
c20: I tell you the truth, man will not discover the code of life for it is not permitted you.
*************
M*W: Man has already discovered the code of life, and it is definitely permitted to be known by all.
*************
c20: You hate the Christian scientist (David F for example) because they say "As amazing as the things are that we know, they all point to the fact that some higher intelligence is at work here"
*************
M*W: No one hates David F. You are putting words in our mouths. You are an evil person, because you spread hate.
*************
c20: Come on Cris, I am sure you are an academic genius but even you have to step down from your fantasy at some time.
*************
M*W: Scientists never step down from their fantasy, because fantasy becomes reality. Cris is more qualified to discuss such matters, but you simply cannot understand anything beyond your religion. You're still living in the Dark Ages. I pity your children.
*************
c20: Can even the most prestigous scientist in the world create a butterfly from scratch? Could you have designed the ribosome from scratch? You want to say "But we are a part of Nature and Nature just is" and then you say "We are a part of nature and must change it to make it stronger". But it is a terrible arrogance and I mean that in a non personal sense. We Christians call that arrogance 'The spirit of the world'.
*************
M*W: You 'christians' are what's wrong with the world.
*************
c20: Let's just hypothesise for one moment that you did indeed manage to tinker with the human seed and reversed its will to die. Of course there would become a terrible population problem so you would then need to expand into the Universe. This is your plan. To boldly go etc etc. But what of those who have gone before you? Those lives that did die? Were those peoples lives for nothing? What of all the injustices done in the flesh? Do you just forget their names? Tell them it's unlucky for them? Do you not see that this is arrogance? To write off humans who have walked before you? And let's suppose you do master cold fusion or some other technology to perform space travel so that you can populate the Universe. What of law and order? Or will you change the human seed to produce flesh made from titanium or some other indestructable substance?
*************
M*W: Tinkering with the human seed has been done since the beginning of time. It's not just new science. The 'oldest profession' was not prostitution. It was midwifery. When Moses was on the Sinai, the Habiru prevented pregnancies in their camels by inserting a pomegranate pit into the camel's uterus so the camel wouldn't be pregnant in the caravan. In the ancient world contraceptives were used in women and men. Ointments made of olive oil, honey, cedar resin, balsam tree juice, lead, myrtle salve, alum, gums, resins, oil of roses and figs were used to prevent pregnancy. In men, the concoction of the above was rubbed on the tip of the penis as well to kill the sperm upon exit.
Abortions were also common in those days. Ox bile, cow parsnip, myrtle, wallflower, bitter legumes were molded into seeds the size of pomegranate pits and inserted into the vagina. Linseed, fenugreek, mallow, marsh mallow, wormwood, absenthium, pepper, honey and myrrh in a long bath inserting this concoction into the vagina while drinking sour wine and eating pungent foods was sure to expel the fetus from the vagina.
Back in ancient days, women had as many babies as they could to help with growing crops and cultivation of the land. It was expected of them. But, they also had these concoctions the midwives used to prevent pregnancy or induce abortions. In the Dark Ages, European midwives placed twigs into the uterus as an abortificant. They soon discovered that seaweed (kelp) called Laminaria worked best, especially if the fetus was more than 12 weeks of age. Believe it or not, laminaria is still used today! There was no 'overpopulation' then, and there is no 'overpopulation' today. The world is not settled evenly.
*************
c20: I love Star Trek, dont get me wrong but I know it's just a cool TV program for kids developed from fantasy.
*************
M*W: I'm not a Trekkie, but I have seen some of the programs, and they were not made just for kids. The stories have morals, and I know plenty of adults who follow Star Trek.
*************
c20: when the program is over, I have to go and make dinner and get my kids bathed and dressed for bed. I read them a story and kiss their little noses. They say "Gudnight dad" and I kiss them again giving them a little squeeze so they know how much I love them. Love is the greatest thing here Cris. Love is, was and will be. God is love and the spirit of love says "Thou shalt have no other gods but me".
*************
M*W: How arrogantly you think that those of us who are atheists don't have love in our lives nor can give love. That's absurd! And we definitely DON'T have any gods we worship! Christianity teaches arrogance like an adrenaline rush. You're not experiencing the truth, but you're arrogantly trying to convince us that you are the only one who is loved or who can love! Give it up! There is no true love to be found in christianity! christianity requires conditional love. All religions require conditions for love. It's only atheists who give love and receive love genuinely without any conditions. If you think atheists do not deserve the cycle of love, then you are a hypocrite, and a lost one, at that.
Why don't you just stick to the things you know. Christianity is NOT your strong suit. You are less educated in christianity than everybody on this forum.
Sorry I couldn't resist..... 