Christian miracles

[spidergoat]

so, do you think there's truly such miracles, maybe i couldnt find pictures, do you think there are miracles?
and how you explain it, if it is true?

I think light itself is a miracle, but are these random coincidences actual manifestations of a supernatural being? Emphatically no. If we worshiped something represented by a circle, that is the phenomenon we would notice and photograph. It's called selective attention.

 

[Shadow1]

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I think light itself is a miracle, but are these random coincidences actual manifestations of a supernatural being? Emphatically no. If we worshiped something represented by a circle, that is the phenomenon we would notice and photograph. It's called selective attention.

ah yes, i see.
but, what if it was something, not just a simple shape, a complicated shape, that even sometimes represent a hall phrase, and obvious for the viwer

 

[spidergoat]

The more complicated, the less of a chance to see it in something else. But considering our great abilities for pattern recognition, even complex images will be found, such as the iconic image of Jesus with a beard. People see it everywhere, even though it is a rather complex set of shapes.

 

[Shadow1]

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The more complicated, the less of a chance to see it in something else. But considering our great abilities for pattern recognition, even complex images will be found, such as the iconic image of Jesus with a beard. People see it everywhere, even though it is a rather complex set of shapes.

ah, i see, so, it's not completly a miracle, but it show us, how great god is, (for theists i mean) we know god is great, and this like, make us, like, exited.

for example, in teh quran, there's many things, wich science approve, alot many things, bigbang, formation of earth, ozone layer, univerce expantion, any, you get teh point, but, the question is, if the quran is man-made, how did they knew all that? also other things, that were just discovered, (i beleive in god, so, i say, it's from god, a theist view, don't know about you)

 

[spidergoat]

It's not a miracle at all, unless you consider the human brain to be a miracle. You see, the recognition of complex patterns is not at all dependent on the pattern, it could be anything. If we were thinking about it often, we will see it in the environment.

The miracles claimed in the Quran are false, not present in the text, but rather the result of creative interpretation. I accepted a challenge in the debate forum to show that the Quran revealed things that could not have been known at the time, and they could not.

 

[Shadow1]

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It's not a miracle at all, unless you consider the human brain to be a miracle. You see, the recognition of complex patterns is not at all dependent on the pattern, it could be anything. If we were thinking about it often, we will see it in the environment.

The miracles claimed in the Quran are false, not present in the text, but rather the result of creative interpretation. I accepted a challenge in the debate forum to show that the Quran revealed things that could not have been known at the time, and they could not.

i know, it's not exactly a miracle, god, said, that there will be no more miracles, after islam, so, those are not exactly miracles, but, it makes us more proud of being muslims, anyway, go to the other topic, islam miracles, and try to explain them, not exactly miracles, but, like, wonders from nature.

what do you mean? things have not been known at that time, and lately when we discovered it in science we noticed it in quran, is that what you mean? well, yes, i agree, that's why i asked, if the quran in man-made, then, how they knew things, that they didnt even knew, and we discovered it lately, anyway, if you want to answer this reply go on the other topic, we're going off-topic.

 

[786]

and they could not.

You just didn't 'buy' it. Anyways I don't want you to go shopping again so I'll leave it at that.

Peace be unto you

 

[Grim_Reaper]

None of what you show here is a miracle amazing perhaps but no miracle post up a picture of some one reattaching a head to a body, or some one raising from the dead not pictures of what happens when you manipulate light.

 

[Shadow1]

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None of what you show here is a miracle amazing perhaps but no miracle post up a picture of some one reattaching a head to a body, or some one raising from the dead not pictures of what happens when you manipulate light.

mericals are no longer exist toaday, it's alsi in my relegion, that after islam, noit other miracles will come, but, nature wonders still, wich make us pround of being belong to that relegion.

 

[lightgigantic]

I know from experience with theists from various denominations that such things (such as those sightings) are sometimes given great value and the aspirant is expected to take them as ultimate or at least sufficient proof of God.

"You say you saw God in your dreams. And still you doubt His existence! You're incorrigible!"

But you would have to actually experience being told such, at a church, face to face. That is something to behold.

Many Christians (but also others) like to play the Doubting Thomas card on anyone who seems to lack faith or conviction.

my point is that such things are not actionable - IOW they are not sufficient to grant the capacity to surmount one's conditioned nature

 

[Doreen]

Ah, the navel-gazer!

Yes, navels are perfect for this. Unless you are overweight and then you must gaze at the navels of others.

 

[Doreen]

I know from experience with theists from various denominations that such things (such as those sightings) are sometimes given great value and the aspirant is expected to take them as ultimate or at least sufficient proof of God.

"You say you saw God in your dreams. And still you doubt His existence! You're incorrigible!"

But you would have to actually experience being told such, at a church, face to face. That is something to behold.

Many Christians (but also others) like to play the Doubting Thomas card on anyone who seems to lack faith or conviction.

That all sounds quite cruel. As far as I can tell many of the revered mystics and saints had dark nights of the soul - after years and years of already being quite the holy figures - and even Jesus felt abandoned by his Father on the cross. While this latter is no doubt, per se, in the existence of God, it is doubt in either God's goodness or his own, I would say. If Jesus can have doubts they should remove the beam of Thomas from their own eyes before being so holey with you.

How odd that they do not feel a non-condescending sympathy.

 

[Try Again]

just walk with me on the line,
i'm trying to make a test, or an experemint, i'll tell you the results when i finish, it's sicologic experement.

look at this, some picture of christian miracles:

what do you think? amazing =)

so, just say what you want, and what you think

I would hardly call cloud formations miracles.

Let me show you some of Mohammad's miracles:

Oh wait... there were none.

 

[spidergoat]

i know, it's not exactly a miracle, god, said, that there will be no more miracles, after islam, so, those are not exactly miracles, but, it makes us more proud of being muslims, anyway, go to the other topic, islam miracles, and try to explain them, not exactly miracles, but, like, wonders from nature.

what do you mean? things have not been known at that time, and lately when we discovered it in science we noticed it in quran, is that what you mean? well, yes, i agree, that's why i asked, if the quran in man-made, then, how they knew things, that they didnt even knew, and we discovered it lately, anyway, if you want to answer this reply go on the other topic, we're going off-topic.

The wonders of nature are just that, they are not miracles, the are the result of the complex physical interactions of particles.

There are no miracles in the Quran, is what I'm trying to say. All those things you refer to are propaganda, there is nothing in the Quran that does not represent the knowledge one would have at the time it was written. It's a plagarism of the Bible, which itself was a rewriting of even older myths.

 

[786]

Oh wait... there were none.

Maybe you can start with Jesus's miracles that you can show

Peace be unto you

 

[Michael]

i know, it's not exactly a miracle, god, said, that there will be no more miracles, after islam,

Interestingly, this makes good sense, given Mohammad was atheist. Which seems reasonable. Of course Mohammad knew there'd be no more miracles, there never were any to begin with.


That aside, what I find interesting is how Christians can see that the Muslim miracles are not really miracles and the Muslims can see that the Baha'i miracles are not really miracles and the Baha'i can see the the Mormon miracles are not really miracles and the Mormon can see that the Scientology miracles are not really miracles and the Scientologist can see that the John Frum miracles are not really miracles and everyone should be able to see that John Edwards is a douche bag and yet he has millions and millions and millions of followers all around the planet.

 

[Ghost_007]

just walk with me on the line,
i'm trying to make a test, or an experemint, i'll tell you the results when i finish, it's sicologic experement.

look at this, some picture of christian miracles:

what do you think? amazing =)

so, just say what you want, and what you think

The first one is impressive - but only from that angle.

Not really miracles to be honest.

 

[Ghost_007]

The wonders of nature are just that, they are not miracles, the are the result of the complex physical interactions of particles.

There are no miracles in the Quran, is what I'm trying to say. All those things you refer to are propaganda, there is nothing in the Quran that does not represent the knowledge one would have at the time it was written. It's a plagarism of the Bible, which itself was a rewriting of even older myths.

Your theories about the Quran and the Prophet, are just that - theories.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) performed miracles, the spread of Islam at times has been miraculous. To an athiest or someone vehemently opposed to Islam or any religion, the spread of Islam would just be the result of many factors coincidently favouring the spread of the religion. Its all about perspective and no amount of arguing is going to change anything.

 

[Michael]

Then you must really think Communism was the Cat's meow. Oh, but you don't think that do you? Even though in a few years it traveled the world unlike any ideology - ever. Was the spread of Communism miraculous? No. Neither was the spread of Islam and it has regressed from some areas - namely Spain and India.

Lastly, SAM has made it clear Mohammad was only a man and nothing more.



Not that it matters, all hail Xemu/nu yadda yadda yadda...

 

[Ghost_007]

Then you must really think Communism was the Cat's meow. Oh, but you don't think that do you? Even though in a few years it traveled the world unlike any ideology - ever. Was the spread of Communism miraculous? No. Neither was the spread of Islam and it has regressed from some areas - namely Spain and India.

Lastly, SAM has made it clear Mohammad was only a man and nothing more.

Not that it matters, all hail Xemu/nu yadda yadda yadda...

The spreading of Islam within a hundred years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) - was miraculous IMO. The spreading of Islam depended greatly on Muhammad (pbuh) being accepted as a Prophet and the Quran being accepted as divine revelation, to me they are miracles. There are so many stories and accounts, hundreds, interweaving from before the time of the Prophet, till during his time, and even centuries afterwards. Muhammad (pbuh) was close to being killed on many occasions, the Muslims could have been wiped out - and Islam finished as a religion - many times. But what is destined to happen will happen.

And it has all come from a long line of Prophets - through Abraham, through the Prophets sent to the Children of Israel as well as other Prophets and Messengers. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the last Prophet, the one just before the End Times and he has given specific information regarding the signs of the final hour - and many have passed. He is also gave specific information regarding the battle or Armageddon, the return of Jesus, the Anti-Christ etc. So its not like the story of Islam is over, there are still many chapters left.

Does it upset you that Muslims find great solace in the words of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)? Or do you just feel really sorry for us?