Christ: He's Back Matraiya, Ram Bomjan Palden Dorje

Light Travelling said:
nor do the gods control our destiny in any way.


If they have existence and volition THAN they could EFFECT one's destiny, if they wanted to.

The Destinies of Men are not such weighty battleships that they are impossible of being pushed off course.

Indeed, when have the Demigods ever had any difficulty effecting the Destinies of whoever they would choose to target?
 
Leo Volont said:
If they have existence and volition THAN they could EFFECT one's destiny, if they wanted to.

The Destinies of Men are not such weighty battleships that they are impossible of being pushed off course.

Indeed, when have the Demigods ever had any difficulty effecting the Destinies of whoever they would choose to target?


I would agree, but the difference is between 'control' and 'effect'. Of course any being whether god, man or animal can effect a destiny.

Where buddhists differ from western monotheism is the control part... where a god sits in judgemnt and decides our fate at the end of a life..
 
The Wonderful Thing about Science that Politicians and the Corporations love is that Science can't seem to Prove a goddamn thing until it is far too late.

Such as?

Look at the Tobacco Lawsuits. They are still going into court claiming that Science has not "proven" that tobacco is harmful.

And it need not be said that you'd have to be a complete and utter halfwitted moron to believe for one second that tobacco is not harmful. Of course those that make their billions selling tobacco are going to claim it isn't harmful and that science hasn't proven it, but if you honestly fall for that I pity you deeply.

You see, they have so over-specified the criteria for Truth, that absolutely no Truth outside of double-blind completely controlled laboratory experiments could ever be said to constitute "proof".

Nobody has "over specified" anything. There are certain ways to get to truth - whether you like it or not. Nobody can sit down and say it takes too much to get there. What are you arguing for? That truth should be easier to come by? Kinda like religious "truth" whereby we just make it up and that's ok?

You smoke a million cigerettes and eat one carrot and die. Science will say it might have been that deadly phuquing carrot.

Utter horseshit.

So, really, Civilization needs to re-evaluate its hatred for Lawyers. Maybe it is the Scientists that should be our Number One Enemies.

And your basis for that is what? Currently it seems to be that 'scientists work too hard trying to find the truth'. Good argument pal.
 
Leo Volont said:
Look at the Tobacco Lawsuits. They are still going into court claiming that Science has not "proven" that tobacco is harmful.

Contents of a cigarette
The smoke from a cigarette contains more than 4000 chemicals, which could have various toxic, mutagenic and carcinogenic effects. The content and concentration of chemical ingredients can vary widely from one brand or type of cigarette to the next.

Below is a list of few of the chemicals and their harmful effects .

Acetone
Cyanide
Aluminum
DDT/Dieldrin
Ammonia
Ethenol
Arsenic
Formaldehyde
Benzene
Hydrogen cyanide
Butane
Lead
Cadmium
Methanol
Carbon monoxide
Nicotine
Carbon dioxide
Tar
Chloroform
Vinyl Chloride

http://www.medindia.net/patients/patientinfo/tobacco_cigarette.htm
 
Leo Volont said:
Well, you are assuming that all Buddhists agree with Buddha. They don't.
With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. There are different sects of Buddhism that follow it differently, some more "religious", in the classical sense (gods, demons, ect), some atheistic. Traditional Buddhist cosmology is not a required belief in Buddhism. Some cultures could not accept the basic tenets of Buddhism, and warped it into something it was never intended to be, but they have the freedom to do that. The tendency to create supernatural religions is unfortunately common, a result of scientific illiteracy.


You see, they have so over-specified the criteria for Truth, that absolutely no Truth outside of double-blind completely controlled laboratory experiments could ever be said to constitute "proof".
No 100% proven truth, that is. Science can still provide a statistical likelihood of something being true or not, which is often good enough. Science is careful, much more careful than religious people.

Well, Mr. Science, with all of the demonstrative indications for Global Warming, and with projections going toward replacing Food Crops with Energy Producing Produce, all while World Populations are still increasing.... do you see ANY POSSIBLE SURVIVAL Scenario?
Science revealed the problem. The solution is to end the production of greenhouse gasses. How that can happen in the environment of politics, development, ect. is not a scientific problem. We will survive, that's not the problem, either. Under what conditions, however, is determined in the end by the cumulative results of individual action.
 
So, really, Civilization needs to re-evaluate its hatred for Lawyers. Maybe it is the Scientists that should be our Number One Enemies.

it really ticks me off when idiots spout their shit against science; using a devise that took SCIENCE to develop! :rolleyes:

HYPOCRITE!
 
spidergoat said:
There are different sects of Buddhism that follow it differently, some more "religious", in the classical sense (gods, demons, ect), some atheistic. Traditional Buddhist cosmology is not a required belief in Buddhism. Some cultures could not accept the basic tenets of Buddhism, and warped it into something it was never intended to be, but they have the freedom to do that. .

It is true that there are various sects with differeing beliefs, but they all do agree with Buddha. It is written that Buddha taught various levels of truth according to ability of his audience to comprehend it and termed this "expedient means" i.e. it was acceptable to tell partial truth if it helped people along their path to liberation.

But all sects of Buddhism do accept the same few fundamental truths and core teachings.

spidergoat said:
The tendency to create supernatural religions is unfortunately common, a result of scientific illiteracy. .

Are you suggesting that the Theravada buddhists of the southern India were scientifically more literate? Because the Mahayana developed mainly in China and Northern india. China was at least as, if not more, scientifically advanced than India at the time.


Even Theravada tetxs such as the dhamapada contain casual references to gods - and not in the context that they do not exist

spidergoat said:
Some cultures could not accept the basic tenets of Buddhism, and warped it into something it was never intended to be
.

That Buddha taught by expedient means is the reason for this... It is obviously open to interpretation as to which version contains more or less of the truth. I guess the one that seems attractive to us is the one suited to our current ability to comprehend. It is in thsi way that the buddha was able to give teachings that can lead all beings closer toward liberation.

spidergoat said:
Science revealed the problem.

Yes but it could be argued that science created the problem as well. i.e. no engines = no greenhouse gasses etc.
 
Leo Volont said:
Christ: He’s Back!

I’m certainly a Catholic, but I am glad that I have carefully been hedging my bets, as it seems that in these obvious End Times we are now experiencing the Coming Again of a Great Messiah, but not from where a good Catholic would at first expect, not from a Judeo/Christian Source. Apparently God learned His lesson there the last time. It appears that our Modern Messiah may come as the Matraiya Buddha. It may be that he is already here, and is now busy preparing himself for the role He will have to play.

He is a young man of Nepal, sixteen years old, and his name is variously spelled: Ram Bomjon, Ram Bamjan, Ram Bomjan. His ‘Buddhist’ name is Palden Dorje. The media has been calling him the “Buddha Boy”. So far he is famous for having had not eaten or drank for some six months while in silent meditation.

Of course, many people are skeptical when they hear of this, and the media only encourages such skepticism by reporting the story most marginally, partially and selectively – to please their modern skeptical and dismissive audiences. It is represented that Groups of Researchers are being consistently turned away. However, a more thoroughly researched account points to a great many verifications that the wider Media has been ignoring. Check this site: http://www.buddhadharma.com/Palden.html
We find that the young man was a trained ascetic from a very young age, and has the endorsements of his local Guru, a famous and high ranking regional Guru, and a Committee of Holy Men who all suppose him to be the Matraiya Buddha in the making. Now I hate to reveal this about the Religious Character, but it certainly is far from common for the Old Men of any Religion to acknowledge any ascendancy or superiority in any Young Men of their Religion. It is more common, even ordinary, for the Old Men of Religion to have great contempt for youth. So it MUST be a great and significant endorsement that so many Religious Old Men are willing to surrender their claims of self importance and to take their positions behind and underneath this lad.

Additionally, the Government of Nepal, in order to well regulate their own jurisdictions, sent a committee of nine specialists to study this New Matraiya, and they also came away with a solid endorsement.

In this context, when a group of Secular Atheist Skeptics arrived, introducing themselves with a slurry of rude questions and a front of obnoxiousness, well, the people, already reassured by their own Holy Men to the satisfaction of their Religion, and already reassured by their own Government Researchers, to satisfy their modern sense of rationality, well, people saw no need for this redundant group of slandering atheists and chased them away without a second thought. The Media pretends that this only group that was rejected was the only group that ever applied. One wonders why the Media would be so reluctant to express just why the local populations were so thoroughly convinced while focusing only on the smallest group which was dissatisfied only because its hostility put them at the greatest distance from the event. Perhaps the Media thought that they could save words by reporting ignorance, as informed knowledge would take so many more columns.

Here allow me to outline some of the details that the media choose rather to set aside. Besides the miraculous fasting (and any small town could soon uncover any fraud occurring there… as it would be no easy feat to sneak food miles into the jungle day after day without detection), there have been several Christ-like miracles. In two separate instances persons who were known to be dumb gained the ability to speak after having come into Our Young Lad’s presence. Then there has been the Wonder of the Lights – as the young Lad sits in meditation in the dark of night he glows in various colors – green at 10 o’clock, yellow by eleven, and the White Light at Midnight. Indeed, that Government Group that investigated, shot a video in which they recorded lights going in and coming out of the Our Young Buddha.

It was reported lately that Our Young Man went missing, but it was subsequently reported that he had only become concerned about the growing carnival atmosphere around the tree in which he was meditating. Several snake bites and then a mysterious fire at this one location were enough to convince Our Buddha in Becoming to pick up and find a better place to finish his Six Year Meditation. You see, on May 16th 2005 he had announced that he would need to complete a six year course of Meditation. So, as yet, he has only just less then one year completed of this six year program. And, again, incidentally, we are handed one more occurrence to reinforce the Big Picture View that the Essential End Time Episode will occur in 2012.

Now, as a personal observation, yes, I think this Young Man will be the Second Coming of Christ, the Modern Messiah, the Matraiya Buddha. But He is not there yet. He has just the blend of vanity and humility that makes for Spiritual Greatness. He would not cut his hair with the rest of his Monkish Fellows while on pilgrimage (having a head of gloriously thick hair), and now He is the only one of his district to suppose Himself to NOT be of the stuff of a Buddha, but claims nothing more than Lama status, being a ‘Rinpoche’, or a Bodhisattva -- all while the Old Experts are saying “Yeah, yeah, sure sure” but nonetheless expect the highest things from this Young Man. Indeed, about 7 months into His meditation, his brother heard him saying that to capture his attention he must be addressed with the Mantra “OM NAMO BUDDHA GYANI”, which is the local patois for the Sanskrit AUM NAMO BUDDHA JNANI – it is a Mantra addressing the Enlightened Buddha. What can we infer? Well, the World now has its Caterpillar in the process of becoming the Butterfly. It took 40 days of fasting in the Wilderness to make a Messiah. It will take 6 years of fasting in the Jungle to give us a Matraiya. Now, we must consider that these things are never entirely preordained. We only need to review the disastrous end results of the Messiah’s short curtailed career to see that these things do not necessarily always work out for the best. So, for this new Young Matraiya, we should all probably pitch in at the level of the Collective Consciousness and wish, pray, and meditate for his support. Add our fasts and whatever penances we do for his benefit and progress. Perhaps this popular support at the root level will make all the difference later on when the elite classes of our Societies will deliberate on crucifying Him as well. Humanity must stand behind this Matraiya, this Messiah, this Time, or again we might lose out and then have to wait another two thousand years for our next slim opportunity.

Anyway, I would suggest we all take up a small ritualistic practice for the next six years, of several times a day repeating a few times “AUM NAMO BUDDHA JNANI” or “OM NAMO BUDDHA GYANI”. And then to wish our Young Man luck and good fortune. He may be our last and best chance. Just envision the possibility that this Young Matraiya could forge the link that joins Humanity to Divinity – the link that joins the Collective Consciousness to the Divine Consciousness. He might be the One Spark that will start the Universal Fire. Like those Knowledgeable Holy Men of Nepal, lets all swallow our pride and get behind this young man.


While mystic perfections are certainly amazing there is nothing intrinsically theistic about them - such yogis are relatively common in the himalyan area and they can do many things that are amazing - its just that being an empowered representative of god requires more than mundane miracles - like even if you want to examine the miracles of jesus you can see that he was doing more than miracles, and in fact they only seemed to be used to convince the less intelligent class of his potency (like for instance his instructions are quite substantial) - there are many so called incarnations in india but it requires a bit of discrimination honed by scripture to determine whether there is more to theistic exhibition than miracles - even in traditional indian scriptures there are many examples of personalities who had tremendous yogic potency but who were completely atheistic - and it terms of contemporary times it tends to be the case that such yogi's who rise to fame by dint of their exhibitions secure a bit of name fame and adoration and then fall down
 
Interesting that religions use miracles (observed materialistic phenomenon) to support the supernatural. Interesting that they use what little science supports their claims while denying that which conflicts with it.
 
Interesting that religions use miracles (observed materialistic phenomenon) to support the supernatural. Interesting that they use what little science supports their claims while denying that which conflicts with it.

I remember the words of one german entrepreneur who was examining the nature of spiritual life in india and he came tot he point of disregarding whatever evidence there was for the performance of miracles since such thngs can also be performed by science (like for instance you may be able to levitate but then you could even more easily just fly in a plane) so such so-called miracles do not actually solve any real issues - a real theistic miracle however is to imbibe a mood of submissive humble service to god amongst a population who are adverse to him - this is the real miracle of jesus or other such empowered personalities which distinguishes them from some mundane yogi - religion is countless times more substantial than mere miracles
 
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In other words, the power of identifying with an in-group, the extreme of which is martyrdom. Is that a miracle, or a facet of human nature? If people can identify in the same way with a secular institution, then that would seem to be evidence against it's miraculous nature.
 
Its not so much about the process of gaining affiliation with something - its about the nature of what you are gaining affiliation with - like for instance identifying with a secular institution doesn't really affect anything since death visits everyone equally - however if one actually gains affiliation with god then that is a transcendental achievement - its not so much about cliques and societies - its about manifesting the qualities of purity, which is distinct from religious principles cultivated in the pursuit of economic development, self aggrandisement, sense gratification etc etc, what to speak of secularism which is completely bereft of any metaphysical components
 
its about manifesting the qualities of purity, which is distinct from religious principles cultivated in the pursuit of economic development, self aggrandisement, sense gratification etc etc, what to speak of secularism which is completely bereft of any metaphysical components
You must be confusing metaphysics with the supernatural.

~Raithere
 
You must be confusing metaphysics with the supernatural.

~Raithere


Its not clear what are the metaphysical aspects intrinsic to secularism that you are alluding to

nb - if you ar enot alluding to such things perhaps you can expand your statements and tell us what you are alluding to
 
Its not so much about the process of gaining affiliation with something - its about the nature of what you are gaining affiliation with - like for instance identifying with a secular institution doesn't really affect anything since death visits everyone equally - however if one actually gains affiliation with god then that is a transcendental achievement - its not so much about cliques and societies - its about manifesting the qualities of purity, which is distinct from religious principles cultivated in the pursuit of economic development, self aggrandisement, sense gratification etc etc, what to speak of secularism which is completely bereft of any metaphysical components

Death "visits" everyone (everyone dies) no matter what ideology or institution you favor. The face that you believe and take comfort in the notion of an afterlife has no bearing on wether it's true or not.
 
Death "visits" everyone (everyone dies) no matter what ideology or institution you favor. The face that you believe and take comfort in the notion of an afterlife has no bearing on wether it's true or not.

The fact that you don't believe and take comfort in the notion that there is no afterlife has no bearing on whether it is true or not
 
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