Challenge to atheists....

[superluminal]

The observer seems to fulfill all the things religion says, being causeless, unborn, eternal, existing before the material world, being within you, existing everywhere, beyond time, etc...

Jibberish?

"God doesn't exist because there is no evidence for nor against God's existence"...but you do.......

I do? Where? When? Please support this lie, 'k?

Ah, the reason I repeat myself is because you do not understand, why do you ask for evidence if you do not believe that evidence causes something to become true?

Ummm... because evidence would verify your claims?

And at the sametime you admit that currently we are incapable of gaining evidence?

I do? Where? When? I have no idea what evidence you might gather to support your god theory. Incapable? More lies?

So what you're saying is that if there's no evidence for nor against a claim it must be false...meaning you believe that evidence causes something to become true, otherwise if you had not believed that evidence causes something to become true you would be agnostic and you would uphold that God existence is a very real possiblity...but atheists do neither of the above...

With the above statement, can you understand why I think I'm much much smarter than you? You setup the most transparent strawmen and expect us to do anything but chuckle at you? See the part in BOLD? That's a fairly stupid statement.

 

[Michael]

Michael,
That site is hilarious, thanks.

So we know that FSM was created by a scientist as a counter argument to theism. Therefore FSM does not actually exist, ipso facto, carpe diem.

I don't understand:
1) What is the meaning of the Latin phrase, I looked it up but it doesn't make sense to me.
2) Can you really be so sure? Are you positive and can prove scientifically "know" FSM does not exist!?! Perhaps Bobby Henderson was chosen to promote Pastafarianism with his even being aware! Everything is playing out just as His Noodleage has predestined. Now spidergoat, now is the time to test your faith. Either accept he is your Lord and Saviour and the Last Prophet Bobby is his messenger or after you die you'll never be allowed another any form of pasta (or pizza) for all of eternity (and maybe sea food too!). How's that for HELL Bwwaaaahahahahaaaahha

 

[Michael]

The observer.

please elaborate on how these two words are evidence for Gods or Goddesses.

 

[Godless]

Superluminal:

I don't. I know I'm smarter than you based on copious evidence in the form of your posts and responses. You can't seem to keep a simple concept in your head for more than one or two posts and then you go back to repeating the same things that everyone else here thinks are already resolved.

Actually VO is a smart ass that likes to use semantics, non-sequirtus, rhetoric, and your occasional oxymoron to attempt to make a point. NO wonder hardly anyone here with a shred of reason, and tid bit of logic, think of him as a nut!

Fact is he proves it with every damn post. Him and LightG are almost like beads in the same pond, however LG makes a better effort to be understood.

 

[(Q)]

Hahhahaha...so then what do you call the placebo-effect? Isn't it not exactly what Jesus said? But go on and continue in your efforts to preserve your atheistic faith instead of finding out what the truth is...

I don't ever recall reading about the 'placebo effect' in scriptures, so I can only conclude your outburst of laughter to be an involuntary reaction brought on by an attempt at intelligent comment and your inability to think.

Your further attempts at deriding me only demonstrate the tenuous grasp on reality you possess and the insignificance of your so-called truth.

If you want to talk about James Randi how about we talk about the $250,000 evolution challenge....if anyone is able to prove with empirical evidence that macroevolution is true they get $250,000 to this date no one has, through your logic that should mean that evolution is false....right?

I'm assuming, by your deflection of quantifying your impotent guarantee, that you're referring to Kent Hovind's utterly ridiculous strawman challenge "to anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution." Of course, Kent's challenge has nothing to do with actually providing evidence for evolution, but is based on his misunderstanding of evolution and the resulting expectations. And considering Kent filed for bankruptcy, there is no reason to believe he'd ante up. Clearly, Kent is little more than a snake-oil salesman.

Is he your mentor?

James Randi actually has the cash held by a public investment firm.

 

[VitalOne]

I don't ever recall reading about the 'placebo effect' in scriptures, so I can only conclude your outburst of laughter to be an involuntary reaction brought on by an attempt at intelligent comment and your inability to think.

Your further attempts at deriding me only demonstrate the tenuous grasp on reality you possess and the insignificance of your so-called truth.

You must not know how to properly read, Jesus states:
"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

The placebo-effect is direct demonstration of this, people already believe they're healed by some piill, and they really become healed, even though the pill had done nothing, therefore proving that it was their belief, their belief alone, just as Jesus said...

I'm assuming, by your deflection of quantifying your impotent guarantee, that you're referring to Kent Hovind's utterly ridiculous strawman challenge "to anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution." Of course, Kent's challenge has nothing to do with actually providing evidence for evolution, but is based on his misunderstanding of evolution and the resulting expectations. And considering Kent filed for bankruptcy, there is no reason to believe he'd ante up. Clearly, Kent is little more than a snake-oil salesman.

Is he your mentor?

James Randi actually has the cash held by a public investment firm.

Is Richard Dawkins your mentor? Kent insists he has the cash, as does Randi, using your own logic, that must mean that evolution is false and that anything supernatural is also false....there are many that claim that James Randi forces people who really possess supernormal abilities to the fail the tests no matter what....just as how you claim Kent can't pay...

 

[James R]

VitalOne:

The placebo-effect is direct demonstration of this, people already believe they're healed by some piill, and they really become healed, even though the pill had done nothing, therefore proving that it was their belief, their belief alone, just as Jesus said...

No. It doesn't have to be belief.

Have you ever had a cold? Did you get better? Did you take any anti-cold drugs to destroy the cold virus? No, since no such drugs exist. So, did you get better because Jesus cured you, then? Or some other reason?

Is Richard Dawkins your mentor? Kent insists he has the cash, as does Randi, using your own logic, that must mean that evolution is false and that anything supernatural is also false...

Randi has, on multiple occasions, provided proof that the cash is held in an account. Check it yourself if you don't believe it.

...there are many that claim that James Randi forces people who really possess supernormal abilities to the fail the tests no matter what...

Do you believe those claims?

 

[VitalOne]

VitalOne:



No. It doesn't have to be belief.

Have you ever had a cold? Did you get better? Did you take any anti-cold drugs to destroy the cold virus? No, since no such drugs exist. So, did you get better because Jesus cured you, then? Or some other reason?

So what you're saying is that the placebo-effect doesn't exist? When did I say you get better because Jesus cured you? Not even Jesus says that, it will work regardless of if you believe in Jesus or not, the placebo-effect is proven to be true....although many still deny it....

The reason that I got better is due to many factors, including your own beliefs (as research shows stress-level directly correlates to sickness), just as The Buddha says:
"Every human being is the author of his own health or disease"

I have on many occassions healed myself, purely by using my mind, which is the controller of my body....however its a lot more than simply "believing" it is better to imagine the feeling of already feeling better, being fully cured, etc....

Randi has, on multiple occasions, provided proof that the cash is held in an account. Check it yourself if you don't believe it.



Do you believe those claims?

I haven't really looked deep into these claims, so I neither believe nor disbelieve them. Randi provides evidence that he has the cash, not evidence that its possible to succeed in his experiment (regardless of if you really have some supernormal ability or not)

 

[Prince_James]

James R.:

Randi has also claimed, and I quote, "Concerning the challenge, I always have an 'out': I'm right!"

Whether or not we can legitimately trust Mr. Randi because of his insistence that he is always right is something of a controversy.

Parapsychology and other investigations of the such things ought to be done with a scientific rigour. Randi does not seem to match this.

 

[James R]

VitalOne:

So what you're saying is that the placebo-effect doesn't exist?

No, not at all. I'm saying that people sometimes just get better. The human body has a built-in immune system that fights disease quite effectively. Even without drugs, the body can often heal itself. But this need not be an effect of the mind or brain or beliefs or willpower. It can be a purely biological phenomenon, totally independent of any conscious control or influence.

The reason that I got better is due to many factors, including your own beliefs (as research shows stress-level directly correlates to sickness)...

I agree with you that there can be some interaction with conscious processes, in addition to what I said above. Stress has an effect - a biological effect. And "willing" yourself to get better by positive thinking, or even perhaps strong faith, might also help your body better fight disease.

But none of this requires a god.

I have on many occassions healed myself, purely by using my mind, which is the controller of my body....however its a lot more than simply "believing" it is better to imagine the feeling of already feeling better, being fully cured, etc....

I think your state of mind affects your body, which then helps heal you.

I haven't really looked deep into these claims [about Randi], so I neither believe nor disbelieve them. Randi provides evidence that he has the cash, not evidence that its possible to succeed in his experiment (regardless of if you really have some supernormal ability or not)

The details of all of Randi's challenges are freely available and not kept secret. Go to his web site (www.randi.org) and you can read all about them.

By the way, they aren't Randi's experiments. Most of the time, he isn't even involved in the process. Test protocols are negotiated by agreement between the testers and the people claiming the paranormal powers or effects. Before any testing happens, all participants must agree on what will be a fair test of their abilities, and what will count as success or failure in the test. If they cannot agree, they do not take the test.

The bare facts are that many applicants have agreed on test protocols. Everybody who has so agreed and been tested has failed - on their own agreed criteria.

Randi does not decide whether the test has been passed or failed. The criteria for passing or failing are agreed in advance by the applicants.

 

[(Q)]

You must not know how to properly read, Jesus states:
"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

The placebo-effect is direct demonstration of this, people already believe they're healed by some piill, and they really become healed, even though the pill had done nothing, therefore proving that it was their belief, their belief alone, just as Jesus said...

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/avalos_17_3.html

Is Richard Dawkins your mentor? Kent insists he has the cash, as does Randi, using your own logic, that must mean that evolution is false and that anything supernatural is also false....there are many that claim that James Randi forces people who really possess supernormal abilities to the fail the tests no matter what....just as how you claim Kent can't pay...

Well, he might be able to pay, that is, if he ever gets out of prison:

"Kent E. Hovind (born January 15, 1953) is an American evangelist and prominent Young Earth creationist who is serving a ten year term in U.S. federal prison for tax fraud and obstructing federal agents."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

 

[James R]

Prince_James:

(Are you going all woo-woo on me now?)

Randi has also claimed, and I quote, "Concerning the challenge, I always have an 'out': I'm right!"

Quotes such as this, taken out of context, hold little weight.

Parapsychology and other investigations of the such things ought to be done with a scientific rigour. Randi does not seem to match this.

How much do you know of Randi's methods in this regard?

Please explain how you reached your conclusion.

In particular, provide at least one example of a case in which proper scientific rigour was not applied in a test.

 

[Prince_James]

James R.:

Randi has also claimed, and I quote, "Concerning the challenge, I always have an 'out': I'm right!"

How much do you know of Randi's methods in this regard?

Please explain how you reached your conclusion.

In particular, provide at least one example of a case in which proper scientific rigour was not applied in a test.

I base my critique purely on the anti-scientific notion of "I am right before I test". Whether or not the James Randi Foundation follows the same views as Mr. Randi himself (who is involved in all the experiments from what I know of) is unsure.

Of course, I am not going "woo-woo". I simply think that, like all other investigations adhering to the scientific method, presumptions of rightness ought not to come into play.

 

[Michael]

The observer.

please elaborate on how these two words are evidence for Gods or Goddesses.

 

[James R]

I base my critique purely on the anti-scientific notion of "I am right before I test".

I don't believe that Randi has ever made any statement of that sort.

Of course, I am not going "woo-woo". I simply think that, like all other investigations adhering to the scientific method, presumptions of rightness ought not to come into play.

You can take it from me, or James Randi himself if you prefer, that there is no prejudging of claims in Randi's challenge.

 

[Prince_James]

James R.:

I don't believe that Randi has ever made any statement of that sort.

The statement I quoted seems to indicate otherwise. That was, also, the full version of his quote, not the more notorious "I always have an out" abridged/paraphrased/altered quote.

You can take it from me, or James Randi himself if you prefer, that there is no prejudging of claims in Randi's challenge.

I hope so, as I would hate for the entire field of parapsychology to be besmirched by the anti-scientific bias of a leading organization. It would do discredit to science.

 

[James R]

The statement I quoted seems to indicate otherwise. That was, also, the full version of his quote, not the more notorious "I always have an out" abridged/paraphrased/altered quote.

Please provide the complete source from which the quote was taken.

 

[Michael]

Well, I'll take the silence to mean that: "there really is no evidence for the existence of (or coexistence) God(s) and/or Goddesses".

Settled and Done,
Michael

 

[VitalOne]

Well, I'll take the silence to mean that: "there really is no evidence for the existence of (or coexistence) God(s) and/or Goddesses".

Settled and Done,
Michael

I already responded, you must have missed it (you know using your atheistic faith), but I'll restate what I said again....

please elaborate on how these two words are evidence for Gods or Goddesses.

Well ok, lets see the observer would have to be:
- unborn
- eternal
- the cause of all causes
- the origin of reality
- the basis of all
- existing everywhere, yet independant
- beyond time
- within you

Hey...what does this sound like again??? Exactly...

 

[Godless]

Well ok, lets see the observer would have to be:
- unborn
- eternal
- the cause of all causes
- the origin of reality
- the basis of all
- existing everywhere, yet independant
- beyond time
- within you

Hey...what does this sound like again??? Exactly...

Like driveling shit that makes no sense!

Unborn; so where does the observer come from?
Eternal; Have any evidence that any entity can be eternal?
The Cause of all Causes; evidence please?
The origin of reality; and your evidence is?
Existing everywhere, yet independent; and your evidence is?
Beyond time; huh? Evidence?
Within you; And evidence is?

Can you see VitalZero that all your answers are vague, and lead to nothing but more questions of your non-serquitus answers?