why do you still constantly, question your gods will.c20H25N3o said:
it made us unbelievers,who the hell are you to question your gods logic, or do you believe yourself to be better than your god.
Case: c20 vs Atheists
- Thread starter c20H25N3o
- Start date
it made us unbelievers,who the hell are you to question your gods logic, or do you believe yourself to be better than your god.
altec said:
None of us even attend church my friend.
altec said:
feel free to hit the ignore button anytime.
altec said:
Bless them.
altec said:
Press ignore. easy
altec said:
I cannot compromise on what I believe to be evil. I also do not compare myself to others. That is what the heathen do for self justification.
peace
c20
anonymous2
Registered Senior Member
c20H25N3o said:
Well, for one, I dispute the reason that Jesus would have had to die for the sins of mankind, because I fail to see the logic behind "original sin"="eternal death", or even if you want to say "one sin"="eternal death". That standard is ridiculously unfair, unrealistic, and impossible for a truly "loving" God to expect out of anyone, considering he supposedly created us in the first place. So it doesn't register in my mind as "justice", but as insanely cruel. You don't advocate the idea that one should be burnt at the stake for the most minor "sin", do you? And so that's how I see this clause in the Christian idea of atonement.
So when this clause fails, I fail to see why Jesus would have needed to die. And even if he would have, it would have been the epitome of injustice to put the "wrath" of God on a supposedly innocent Jesus, even if he willingly offered himself as a sacrifice. If I went up to you and told you to go ahead and stab me in the heart, do you think a court would say "Ok, this guy volunteered to be killed, so there will be no punishment for you because we don't consider what you did to be murder"? And even if you say that God didn't literally murder Jesus, but the Romans did, God's "wrath" was still on Jesus during that time, right? So it was colossally unfair, at least as to how I see it.
And if God's "wrath" were on Jesus, how does he have any left for "unbelievers"? If all of the sins of the world were really paid for by Jesus, then why do we need to accept it? Wouldn't it already have been paid for, whether we accept it or not?
And if you say God won't automatically forgive us if we don't want it, then why doesn't he just destroy us then? Why does he need to put us in hell? If he's omnipotent, he can destroy us, can't he? And I mean annihilation when I say destruction.
So Christianity fails in basically everything I consider to make sense.
And "Paul" may have recognized this when he said the "Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing". Maybe that's because he knew it WAS "foolishness".
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c20: If you want to communicate with me where I am you must talk to me accepting that my faith cannot and will not be changed by you. I have built my house on very very solid foundations. I am happy to discuss my faith but I cannot debate it. I beg at least that much respect for a man's faith.
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M*W: No one wants to 'change your faith,' so quit playing the victim card. If all you are willing to do is 'discuss' your faith (i.e. preach to us), this is not the right forum for you. We come here to debate religious issues -- not to be preached to or converted back to false beliefs. Your attitude about our beliefs is one of hate and fear. That's neither healthy nor appropriate for you OR the other members of this forum. What you are saying is that you really don't want to discuss anything, you just aim to preach. There are many christian forums where they would welcome you to come and preach and feed each other with your similar delusions.
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M*W: No one wants to 'change your faith,' so quit playing the victim card. If all you are willing to do is 'discuss' your faith (i.e. preach to us), this is not the right forum for you. We come here to debate religious issues -- not to be preached to or converted back to false beliefs. Your attitude about our beliefs is one of hate and fear. That's neither healthy nor appropriate for you OR the other members of this forum. What you are saying is that you really don't want to discuss anything, you just aim to preach. There are many christian forums where they would welcome you to come and preach and feed each other with your similar delusions.
c20H25N3o: Worry about your own state of mind M*W. I am a father of four, hold down a very good job as a senior analyst in which I earn a good deal of money (to support all these little monkies ). I have a beautiful, intelligent caring wife who loves me very much and laughs when you call me delusional. She feels sorry for you. She says that you will probably get over your issues with Christianity soon enough.
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M*W: I'm happy for you, c20, that you have the life that makes you happy. You seem content with it. That's all that matters. I also have a wonderful life. I raised four children ALONE. I educated myself and have been on faculty at a medical school teaching medical students, doctors, nurses, residents, etc., for a number of years, and now I am at retirement age feeling gratified at what I and my family has accomplished. I've lived a very full life and have no regrets. My grandchildren are who I live for now. They make it all worthwhile. With my children, I received my battle scars, with my grandchildren, I received the medals. So, I need no pity from anyone. I served my country honorably, I raised my children honorably, I am honored by my grandchildren, and I live a peaceful, happy life. God did not give me all these blessings; I gave myself these blessings. Jesus didn't die for us, but I would, and my children would. We have eternal life already, and do you know how we know it? I've traced our family tree back to the time of Charlemagne who was the most prolific king of all. In essence, everyone alive today is related to Charlemagne somehow. But as late as the 1300s we all have a common ancestor. In other words, we are all related, and, therefore, already have eternal life through our DNA. I believe if a person is not happy inside, they search for delusions to make them happy. I don't believe in delusions, I believe in reality. The only way one could see reality is to give up their delusions. I don't think you are able to do this, and the members of this forum want to debate realities not delusions. I believe you would be happier among your own kind, (christians), although your presence here gives us much to smirk about, because, unfortunately your posts are comic relief for us. You should ask yourself the question, "where is the right place to express my beliefs?" I'm sure god will give you the right answer.
). I have a beautiful, intelligent caring wife who loves me very much and laughs when you call me delusional. She feels sorry for you. She says that you will probably get over your issues with Christianity soon enough.*************
M*W: I'm happy for you, c20, that you have the life that makes you happy. You seem content with it. That's all that matters. I also have a wonderful life. I raised four children ALONE. I educated myself and have been on faculty at a medical school teaching medical students, doctors, nurses, residents, etc., for a number of years, and now I am at retirement age feeling gratified at what I and my family has accomplished. I've lived a very full life and have no regrets. My grandchildren are who I live for now. They make it all worthwhile. With my children, I received my battle scars, with my grandchildren, I received the medals. So, I need no pity from anyone. I served my country honorably, I raised my children honorably, I am honored by my grandchildren, and I live a peaceful, happy life. God did not give me all these blessings; I gave myself these blessings. Jesus didn't die for us, but I would, and my children would. We have eternal life already, and do you know how we know it? I've traced our family tree back to the time of Charlemagne who was the most prolific king of all. In essence, everyone alive today is related to Charlemagne somehow. But as late as the 1300s we all have a common ancestor. In other words, we are all related, and, therefore, already have eternal life through our DNA. I believe if a person is not happy inside, they search for delusions to make them happy. I don't believe in delusions, I believe in reality. The only way one could see reality is to give up their delusions. I don't think you are able to do this, and the members of this forum want to debate realities not delusions. I believe you would be happier among your own kind, (christians), although your presence here gives us much to smirk about, because, unfortunately your posts are comic relief for us. You should ask yourself the question, "where is the right place to express my beliefs?" I'm sure god will give you the right answer.
c20H25N3o said:
There is a difference between faith and dogma. Faith is based on a core of truths that can be defended, dogma cannot be defended because it doesn't exist on a platform of truths. You cannot defend your faith because it is dogma even to you.
But, this is a place for debate. This is not a place for preaching. That is why people are upset with you, and why the evidence shows you are breaking the "No Preaching" rule. You can accept that, and move on to a place that accepts your preaching, or you can continue to break the laws of these forums by preaching your dogma.
I am not sure whether it is right or wrong to exist in such a dogmatic state, but I do know that your actions on this board break the rules and is therefore wrong. There are plenty of other places that would embrace and adopt your dogma as their own, but this is not one of them and there are rules against it. So please stop preaching, and think about not visiting the Religion forum at all on this site if you cannot follow the rules. Be a man and accept that for this place to exist, rules must be followed as they must be in life.
www.worthyboards.com
http://forums.christiansunite.com
www.gospelfortoday.org/gftforum/
www.freejesus.net/home/viewforum.php?f=159
www.nwcreation.net/discusschristian.html
www.churchquest.com/forum/
www.e4god.com/forums.htm
http://pub8.ezboard.com/bchristiandiscussionzone73070
http://www.unicorne.org/orthodoxy/avril2003/forum.htm
www.biblegate.org/links/Forums/
http://www.polajenko.com/forum/truth
http://www.gmrnet.org/discussion_forums.htm
http://www.fresh-hope.com/forums/index.php
http://www.faithtofaith-facetoface.com
http://www.christianweb.ca/forum/index.php
http://www.christianboard.com/
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So C20, those are just a few of the THOUSANDS of Christian discussion forums out there. There are many more such forums out there then there are forums like this out there.
Soooooooo . . . . . . why the F* would you want to hang out someplace where your rants are generally not enjoyed?! When you could be in a place where you would be welcomed with open arms? You will convert nobody - so any self-rightous ideas about ''helping us'' are idiotic.
Go be with your own kind. Tell them about how you did Acid and then God found you. They'll be psyched, you can verbally pat each others backs and give each other virtual ego reach-arounds.
http://forums.christiansunite.com
www.gospelfortoday.org/gftforum/
www.freejesus.net/home/viewforum.php?f=159
www.nwcreation.net/discusschristian.html
www.churchquest.com/forum/
www.e4god.com/forums.htm
http://pub8.ezboard.com/bchristiandiscussionzone73070
http://www.unicorne.org/orthodoxy/avril2003/forum.htm
www.biblegate.org/links/Forums/
http://www.polajenko.com/forum/truth
http://www.gmrnet.org/discussion_forums.htm
http://www.fresh-hope.com/forums/index.php
http://www.faithtofaith-facetoface.com
http://www.christianweb.ca/forum/index.php
http://www.christianboard.com/
---------------------------------------------------------
So C20, those are just a few of the THOUSANDS of Christian discussion forums out there. There are many more such forums out there then there are forums like this out there.
Soooooooo . . . . . . why the F* would you want to hang out someplace where your rants are generally not enjoyed?! When you could be in a place where you would be welcomed with open arms? You will convert nobody - so any self-rightous ideas about ''helping us'' are idiotic.
Go be with your own kind. Tell them about how you did Acid and then God found you. They'll be psyched, you can verbally pat each others backs and give each other virtual ego reach-arounds.
Gravity said:
I can't believe that you just posted what you did...this is hideous and an outrage, and contrary to everything that this board is supposed to be about. You should be ashamed of yourself. It is YOU that needs to find a new home where everyone agrees with YOU. Apparently that is what YOU are looking for, not c2o, and I would hope, not the majority of the people on this board. A debate forum in which everyone agreed and believed the same? That would make for a boring read and a lack of learning anything new now wouldn't it? What's the matter...afraid to learn? You sound just like a Nazi!
Arditezza said:
dog·ma ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dôgm, dg-)
n. pl. dog·mas or dog·ma·ta (-m-t)
A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
I am always happy to back up my statements with the Holy Book as authorised by the Vatican in Rome. I often do. It is the message that people object to. I cannot help that. When challenged I respond with the truth of my faith. I cannot for example make compromise with the world. This is against my religion. This is what I mean when I say I cannot debate my faith. I mean I cannot make compromise with the world. I am still at liberty to talk of my faith as is a muslim, a hindu, a sikh, an atheist (loosely speaking) or anyone else who holds a belief. Because I am a Christian who speaks of matters of Christ (Not suprising given my faith
) I am expected to shut up and go to another forum? Enough already. Ignore me or hold a petition to have me removed for being a Christian and talking about the Christian faith in a forum dedicated to Religion. If I am asked to leave the site by the general consensus of the people put in charge to make such decisions I will not make any fuss. I will go without questioning their authority.David F. said:
What about delusional liar? And without one shred of "evidence" that is repeatedly demanded by the hypocrit? Well, it sounded pretty demeaning and hateful and arbitrary to me. So much so that I lashed out at him in response and in anger. So in essence, his preaching led to flaming behaviour, which the forum rules seek to prevent.
I answer questions and am called either delusional or a liar. I cite references and they are called false. You don't have to like my reference...whether it be the Bible or my personal testimony...you don't have to believe it to be true either...but in this forum...it is just as valid as your own. Your own? Oh yea, and what are those exactly?
It's not that c2o doesn't answer questions, it's that some people either don't understand his answers, or they just plain don't like them. If he doesn't provide the associated scripture quoted from the bible to support his answer then he is criticized, and if he does then he is called a thumper.
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no c20 you said that, why will she not like what you say to yourself.
when I was a child, I played with toys soldiers, and I made the talk to each other, but I never once believed that they could really talk, I was just playing at fantasy.
now I've put away childish things.
this is why we believe you xians to be delusional, because you talk to yourself and believe you are talking to someone else.
they have padded cells for such people, your one of the lucky ones, your still out.
when I was a child, I played with toys soldiers, and I made the talk to each other, but I never once believed that they could really talk, I was just playing at fantasy.
now I've put away childish things.
this is why we believe you xians to be delusional, because you talk to yourself and believe you are talking to someone else.
they have padded cells for such people, your one of the lucky ones, your still out.
Look, you might not believe the Bible is the truth but I do. Why is that so hard to accept? I like to talk about it. It gives me hope and it gives others hope. Surely that cannot be a bad thing? Why try and tear it apart? Why try and prove me a hypocrite? Why try and do anything at all? Look if I am a fool to you so be it. Let me be a fool for you. Humour me. If you cannot bear me just ignore me. I wont take it personally. I promise.
peace
c20
peace
c20
Lori_7 said:
Oh please - "hideous and an outrage"? If this ranks that way for you - then you've lived a much more sheltered life than most of us!
I do believe he has every right to babble about whatever he wishes. But - so do I. Including saying everything I did. And, its ironic that you metion Nazism since I HONESTLY believe the seeds of a fascist government are sprouting quickly in the USA now . . . and that folks like C20, even if he himself has innocent intentions, are among the most powerful tools of this growing theocratic corporate totalitarian feudalism.
I have two children, I'm scared for them. I think at the current rate, we are likely to see our right to even speak freely in a forum such as this disappear. And perhaps even a knock on the door in the middle of the night . . .
Paranoid? Maybe, I hope so. But I'm also certain that if we don't call it as we see it, and keep a sharp watch - then we *definately* have no chance.
So, in short sweetie . . . I'll continue to say whatever I please. And you should do the same.
pavlosmarcos said:
You make foolish judgements about me. As I have said, I am not delusional. You mock me because it comforts you to do so. As long as I am wrong, you are right. As long as I am delusional you are sane. But you make terribly foolish judgements of me. I am a man, like you. Just like you. I am sane. Completely. Self controlled. I am a poet, a musician, a programmer, a husband, a father. I live a quiet sort of life. Humble you might say. I know what I like and I know what I dont like. I know I have sought the answers of life and it's meaning just as many of you have done. All it comes down to for me at the end of the day is ""WHAT"" WE ARE AND ""WHERE"" WE ARE AND ""WHY"" WE ARE AND ""HOW"" WE ARE AND ""WHEN"" WE ARE.
Same as you no doubt.
Now let me look at WHAT
I am a human being. Free will. I can do what I want here. I know love and hate and I prefer love. I want to live in a world of love where no one can come to any harm whatsoever. But this is not the case here. Here there is evil afoot.
Now let me look at WHERE
The universe. Need I say more. Incredible, fantastic, miracle. One tiny dust speck of many in a sky full of fiery objects is our home. Amazing. We call it earth. We have life here. We procreate here.
Now let me look at WHY
Something this magnificent must speak of love. Like a wonderful gift. We are here to be loved.
Now let me look at HOW
Well if we are here to be loved then something must have put us here and provided us with all the beautiful stuff we see. I have no other explanation than the one whom I call God Almighty, Creator of the heavens and the earth. I know I am part of God's purpose. A son if you like.
Now let me look at WHEN
Right now.
But what of DEATH?
What of it? This is all way too beautiful for us to just be rolled up and thrown away like it just did not matter. We do matter. That's the point. We do matter. We matter to the One who made us. So much so that He sent His Son to tell us the good news. Jesus was put to death under Pontius Pilate. This is bad. Jesus was innocent. But, through the bible, God tells us that He knew Jesus was to die. He tells us that this was the only way we could be redeemed for all had sinned. God is totally pure. Totally. Creative love. Like a child, so beautiful, yet so powerful. God cannot tolerate sin. He is blameless. In Jesus God became flesh. God wanted to show who had power over life and death so that we might turn to Him and ask Him for life. But God could not grant us life without atoning for the sins we had commited. There must be payment by law else justice fails. An innocent life for a guilty life. God was innocent in Jesus and His blood was spilled out for you. This happened for the purposes of atonement, that the law could be satisfied that their was enough love to cover us in any eventuality. We cannot save ourselves. The law now requires that you 'love God with all your heart, body, mind and soul' and in doing so know thyself in His love. Then very much like it, love your neighbour as yourself. The only debt you have to Jesus for His sacrifice is that you love eachother. His grace is sufficient for us. Eternal life is granted to those who believe and to those that believe, they will receive the Holy Spirit to help them in their walk with God, Our Father, Creator of the heavens and the earth. For those who have ears to hear...
Even if you think I am a hypocrite, discard me in this but do not discard the words I have written.
Thanks
c20
c20H25N3o: I am always happy to back up my statements with the Holy Book as authorised by the Vatican in Rome. I often do. It is the message that people object to. I cannot help that. When challenged I respond with the truth of my faith. I cannot for example make compromise with the world. This is against my religion. This is what I mean when I say I cannot debate my faith. I mean I cannot make compromise with the world. I am still at liberty to talk of my faith as is a muslim, a hindu, a sikh, an atheist (loosely speaking) or anyone else who holds a belief. Because I am a Christian who speaks of matters of Christ (Not suprising given my faith ) I am expected to shut up and go to another forum? Enough already. Ignore me or hold a petition to have me removed for being a Christian and talking about the Christian faith in a forum dedicated to Religion. If I am asked to leave the site by the general consensus of the people put in charge to make such decisions I will not make any fuss. I will go without questioning their authority.
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M*W: Why then don't you provide us with clear and compelling evidence and scholarly research that Jesus was, in fact, the savior. If you can do that without preaching, then maybe you could have a positive influence on the forum. If you are unable to provide clear and compelling evidence and scholarly documented research, then Gravity was right to offer you available christian websites where you would definitely have a positive influence. The majority of members on this forum are atheists and free-thinkers, and it would be a never-ending uphill battle for you to win friends and influence the non-christians of this forum.
) I am expected to shut up and go to another forum? Enough already. Ignore me or hold a petition to have me removed for being a Christian and talking about the Christian faith in a forum dedicated to Religion. If I am asked to leave the site by the general consensus of the people put in charge to make such decisions I will not make any fuss. I will go without questioning their authority.*************
M*W: Why then don't you provide us with clear and compelling evidence and scholarly research that Jesus was, in fact, the savior. If you can do that without preaching, then maybe you could have a positive influence on the forum. If you are unable to provide clear and compelling evidence and scholarly documented research, then Gravity was right to offer you available christian websites where you would definitely have a positive influence. The majority of members on this forum are atheists and free-thinkers, and it would be a never-ending uphill battle for you to win friends and influence the non-christians of this forum.
c20H25N3o: Look, you might not believe the Bible is the truth but I do. Why is that so hard to accept? I like to talk about it. It gives me hope and it gives others hope. Surely that cannot be a bad thing? Why try and tear it apart? Why try and prove me a hypocrite? Why try and do anything at all? Look if I am a fool to you so be it. Let me be a fool for you. Humour me. If you cannot bear me just ignore me. I wont take it personally. I promise.
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M*W:c20, it's not hard to accept the fact that you believe in the bible. That's obvious to us. There is no one here on the forum who would deny you the right to have your own beliefs. What is hard for us to accept is your constant preaching. If you find comfort and hope in the christian faith, you deserve that right, but the majority of members of this forum don't want to hear about christianity as it's offensive to us. We ask you to respect our rights, too.
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M*W:c20, it's not hard to accept the fact that you believe in the bible. That's obvious to us. There is no one here on the forum who would deny you the right to have your own beliefs. What is hard for us to accept is your constant preaching. If you find comfort and hope in the christian faith, you deserve that right, but the majority of members of this forum don't want to hear about christianity as it's offensive to us. We ask you to respect our rights, too.
c20H25N3o: You make foolish judgements about me. As I have said, I am not delusional. You mock me because it comforts you to do so. As long as I am wrong, you are right. As long as I am delusional you are sane. But you make terribly foolish judgements of me. I am a man, like you. Just like you. I am sane. Completely. Self controlled. I am a poet, a musician, a programmer, a husband, a father. I live a quiet sort of life. Humble you might say. I know what I like and I know what I dont like. I know I have sought the answers of life and it's meaning just as many of you have done.
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M*W: There are many poets who have published their poetry on the Art and Culture forum. I would like to read your poetry as I am sure others would, too. Perhaps we could read your poetry and it would give us new meaning to who c20 is.
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M*W: There are many poets who have published their poetry on the Art and Culture forum. I would like to read your poetry as I am sure others would, too. Perhaps we could read your poetry and it would give us new meaning to who c20 is.