Carjacker shoots baby in face!

Orleander yes i feel for her AND the father AND the grandparents AND any siblings ect

At the same time however there is no point in killing the perpitrator. Revenge serves no purpose.

Syzygys My point is that if i lust after you that puts NO requirments on you, In fact one way lust is punished if acted on. Why should revenge be any different?

You do realise that you are just about the ONLY industralised nation to keep the DP dont you?
England, Australia, NZ, Canada ect have all gone past revenge to protection and rehabilitation. Even if someone is never releaced from prision they can be productive in that they can advance KNOWLAGE so eventually we maybe able to CURE personality disorders
 
do you think seriously think the guy who shot them didn't know that the death penalty existed? He knew the risks and he took it. He took the risk for a hunk of metal.
 
You do realise that you are just about the ONLY industralised nation to keep the DP dont you?

...and they keep regreting it. Read my story in the CP thread....

Also they don't have crime rates like the US and 1.2 million prisoners... But I bet that after the Madrid and London bombing they were thinking a bit differently about CP.....
 
I seriously doubt it, I know VERY few did after the russle street bombing, the buke street killing or the port authur masicure. Ever wondered WHY you have such a high crime rate?
 
Just out of curiosity I looked up Sweden as crimes and support for CP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

"The support for capital punishment in Sweden varies between 30-40%. A 2006 study from SIFO shows that 36% of the population believes that there are crimes that should be punished by death."

This is rather low, but consider the murder rate:

"...gives Sweden little more than 1 homicide per 100,000 inhabitants. This figure is in line with most European countries, which also have a level of between 1-2"

Compare this with 5.5 in the USA or 20 in Russia....How strange, Russia also has the death penalty...

"Despite the overall crime rate of the United States being seemingly in line with that of other industrialized countries, its homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1991, is still among the highest in the industrialized world. Comparing just homicide rates by themselves, however, may not be representative of the overall crime rate of a country. Only the homicide rate of Northern Ireland in the early 1990s compares to that of the United States today. In 2004, there were 5.5 homicides for every 100,000 persons, compared to 1.9 in Canada and 1.0 in Germany.[28] This means that the homicide rate in the United States was nearly three times as high as in Canada and slightly more than five times as high as in Germany.[7][29] Most industrialized countries had homicide rates below the 2.5 mark. Overall the homicide rate in the United States was similar to that of some lesser developed Eastern European countries."
 
maybe you SHOULD think about why every other country (and even the states that have abolished the DP) that murder rates especially are lower
 
Hey, here is the best part, Spain doesn't even have life sentence, the max. sentence is 40 years:

"Three of the eight main suspects - Emilio Trashorras, a Spaniard, and Jamal Zougam and Othman el-Gnaoui, both Moroccans - received sentences of nearly 40,000 years each. Under Spanish law, however, they can only serve a maximum of 40 years."

Mind you 190 people died and thousands were hurt, but I think 40 years is enough punishment. Agree???
 
pyciatric care is enough, when the shrinks agree that the person is rehabilitated THEN they should be releaced. If thats a week great, if its 100 years thats sad
 
maybe you SHOULD think about why every other country (and even the states that have abolished the DP) that murder rates especially are lower
That's not true. South Africa abolished the death penalty and has one of the highest crime rates in the world. The crime rate, by the way, went up after the death penalty was repealed. Japan, on the other hand, has the death penalty and has one of the lowest.
 
A dysfunctional comparison

Madanthonywayne said:

South Africa abolished the death penalty and has one of the highest crime rates in the world

Comparing the United States to South Africa is, well, slightly dysfunctional. Put Americans through similar conditions for an extended period, and we'll get really violent, too.

One of the problems with such direct comparisons, whether it's to Sweden, South Africa, Japan, or anywhere else, is that they're superficial. We see the same problems with gun-control arguments. Pretending that any single-issue comparison tells a functional truth is an exercise in futility, a way to make sure nothing ever gets solved.

Taking Sweden, South Africa, and Japan to compare, it's not a matter of whether or not there is a death penalty. Rather, the difference is a matter of cultural outlook, which does include how people view state-sanctioned homicide. The American culture is and has been since its founding one based on perversity and violence. This is, in part, our Puritan obsession with sex, and in part our Revolutionary and pioneer heritage, which demanded a certain degree of violence. And it's the violent heritage that is most relevant here. While Europe, certainly, has had its share of ludicrous violence over the years, these are smaller countries with longer cultural histories. Their size makes it easier to develop a general cultural identity, and the periods and natures of their histories generally mean they've had more time to cultivate those attitudes and beliefs.

Japanese culture, by the American view, is almost entirely foreign insofar as most Americans have a hard time imagining some of the things we hear about. Even if it's just stereotypes about suicides for bad math scores, or young executives singing loudly and off-key in the street as part of their job training, or authoritarian family values, there seems a tremendous difference between how Japanese and American people view their society and their relationship thereunto.

South African culture has been in flux for centuries. The place is, traditionally it seems, wracked by poverty, injustice, and administrative corruption at least. This is a pretty good recipe for social and political violence.

If we consider Kenya, since it's an ongoing situation, the murder rate is about to skyrocket. And much of this violence has been a long time in the making, from the injustice of colonization to the inequity of independence. According to ReligiousTolerance.org, Kenya has in place "an informal moratorium on executions"°, and it would be foolish, I think, if we were to attempt to draw any causal connection between that status and the fact that their murder rate is rising almost daily right now. While it is, of course, an extreme example, the point is to remind that simple comparisons of murder rates and the presence of the death penalty have limited implications at best.
____________________

Notes:

° Kenya has in place "an informal moratorium on executions — While the site lists 2003 as the date of the informal moratorium, it also notes that Kenya "executed its last prisoner on death row in 1984".

Works Cited:

Robinson, B. A. "Countries that have abandoned the use of capital punishment". (1995) Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance. December 26, 2007. See http://www.religioustolerance.org/executh.htm
 
Hey Anthony, that was one good argument!

Asguard thinking of shrinks curing criminals is just incredibly NAIVE....Not to mention not necessery the society's desired goal...
 
Not to mention not necessery the society's desired goal...

Thank you, you just proved a point. People are more interested in revenge and seeing a person die for fun than inactually reducing the crime rate. If you deal with the thing that caused a person to offened in the first place wether that be poverty or mental illness then that person can be a productive member of sociaty but thats not what you want is it? You want someone to look down apon thats all. Someone to hate
 
I have to say yes. When there are better alternitives and they arnt used then yes i would have to say that. Or political gain

What use is there exicuting a mentally handicaped guy who is so unable to understand what is happerning that he puts the desert from his last meal under his bed so he can finsh it later?
 
I think "fun" is too overt, Asguard. Yes, it's for convenience, and yes, there is a superficial gratification some people take. But it's a psychological problem, and akin to suggesting that depressed people feel poorly for fun. For many depressed people, they don't feel like themselves unless they're sad. And for many homicide advocates, they just don't feel like themselves unless they're judging who isn't fit to live.
 
Im not sure tiassa, Maybe its harsh but maybe its not. I have been told time after time that the US is a vilonent culture. If thats ture maybe it IS just fun. There is a history of exicutions for entertainment after all. Look at the roman "games", look at the medievil festivals and look at sadams exicution. Why is it so much of a strech to aplie this to the US? or am i just being politically incorect again?
 
Asguard said:

Why is it so much of a strech to aplie this to the US? or am i just being politically incorect again?

I'm looking at the disease motivating the behavior. Think of it this way: If we agree that it's about "fun", well, isn't that an indictment of the state of mind of that part of the culture? What kind of sickness does that describe?

We must treat the sickness. Diminish the symptomatic manifestations. Seek a cure.
 
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