Can Scientists & Mystics Work Together?
- Thread starter Dredd
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"In a short autobiography, Ibn al-Haytham tells us that in his youth he scrutinized the claims of the many religious sects teeming around him. In the end it was the empirical strain and rational thinking he recognized in Aristotelian natural philosophy, and the rigor of mathematics, that finally won his heart."
He ended up living in what is described as a domed structure, probably a modest mausoleum, outside the Azhar Mosque and its famous school in Cairo. There he supported himself by teaching and by copying Arabic translations of Greek mathematical classics such as Euclid’s Elements and Ptolemy’s Almagest.
http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/09/ibn-al-haytham.html
And? You should read a bit more about him. Ibn Haytham did not consider religion and science to be mutually exclusive. Note that I critique the claims of many religious sects too.
Not sure IIRC, but I believe he claimed he would rather study the work of God than the words of men, because men were imperfect and only God was perfection.
edit: pretty close
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I have, and it appears he was no Muslim, in that he wanted nothing to do with Islam or the murderous Caliph who had him under house arrest when he feigned insanity.
I try to explain this a little better.
OK... the inclination of the world is wrong. and will eventually end in destruction. We are seeing this now. This was known thousands of years ago.
Religion is really about government. Who has the right to rule this earth.
It is obvious that God is not ruling this world. That is why we see the conditions on this earth now. That is also why I said there was a purpose to the misinformation in the world. It was so people would not believe in a God or to use false religion to misdirect people.
If you have noticed on TV all the programs on Armageddon, or dooms day , there are all sorts of predictions of the end of the world as we know it. People have known for a long time that, it is going to happen. It's just when and how, that is not known.
So I do not support mans governments, but I support God's government.
It is not complicated, that is it . My actions, support that. There has always been some people , through out history to do the same. But it is not the majority, these supports the governments now, as shown by their actions.
The reason this is always a religious question is that there are only 2 sides, your on God's side or you are not. There is no middle ground.
On the contrary (I do hope you're being sarcastic though).
Evolution itself contradicts creation.
It IS a fact.
That's an assumption. Based on wishful "thinking".
Really?
Where does radar occur in nature?
You do little but.
No they aren't.
Where?
This has nothing to do with the question I ask. I repeat, for the sake of mutual discussion:
Your statement: "Just about everything man does ends up to be the wrong."
My question: Does this statement include you too?
Is it too impossible, not understandable, or too difficult to answer this question. I am not saying religion, I am not saying anything else; just a simple question to understand your position against your own initial assumption: "man does ends up to be wrong", you claimed, "is that claim applicable to you?"
Tell me that you do not want to answer this question, I will understand. I just want to see a light, an evidence, a clue that you are talking (or writing) to what I am talking about. I want to make sure that you read what I wrote. Just simply say that "I understood your question, but I don't want to answer it". Something related to the question. It has been three times I asked you the same question. You even quoted it in your reply. Yet you don't say anything about it. If you are not going to say anything about it, why do you quote? Do you just need any piece of paragraph with somebody else's name written on top of it? Is that the reason that you quoted my paragraph, yet you talk about something absolutely different. Why are you doing this?
I don't want to get into a deep religious answer. But since you asked and want a clear answer, I will explain it this way , if you know anything about Noah from the bible, he lived in a world that that was totally against God. But God spared him and his family. There were about a million people at that time( just an estimate). So the question is, was Noah the same as the rest of the world? Was he wrong also? Or did his conduct prove to be different? Noah's day pictures our day. This shows that a number of people will survive Armageddon, but just as in Noah's day the number would be comparatively few. So the question is, are these ones wrong as the rest of the world is? It is a way of life , not just a belief, so all daily activity , is based on a different direction than that of the world.
Do you understand this?
Therefore, you are Noah, is that what you want me to understand? How can you do this, how can you divert a question -which is specifically designed uniquely for you, only you, nobody else- to somebody else (such as Noah). Maybe I am trying to understand if your statement ("men end up wrong") binds you as a member of humanity or not. What's Noah, or religion got to do with it? Are you trying to say that your statement was actually not "your own statement", but actually a "religious" statement? Are you trying to say that you made this statement, but actually didn't include yourself into it? Are you trying to say that you don't know the answer? Are you trying to say that you wrote down the statement like a prophet, yet you didn't accept yourself as a part of humanity in question?
Noah is a religious concept, and you said many times that you do not want to get into a religious discussion. And where are you by the way? Writing to "comparative religion" section. Yet I don't mind; let's say you don't want to talk about religion in religion section. I go along with it, I support you, I say "let's accept your suggestion and let's stop talk about religion". Let's talk about your answer to my many times repeated simple question:
Is your statement of "men always end up wrong" applicable to you?
Good job.
Very broad based coverage of the subject by members (pro & con) has been done in this thread.
Mainly concerning the past, concerning origins.
What about the future? :shrug:
The tenets of Ecocosmology give equal respect to all individuals, mystic or scientist, who can offer something concerning the future, concerning the survival of our species.
Very broad based coverage of the subject by members (pro & con) has been done in this thread.
Mainly concerning the past, concerning origins.
What about the future? :shrug:
The tenets of Ecocosmology give equal respect to all individuals, mystic or scientist, who can offer something concerning the future, concerning the survival of our species.
By definition the realm of science is supposed to be proof based, and religion / mysticism is supposed to be faith based.
But in fact the two realms do mix, scientists exhibit great faith in their hypotheses from time to time.
Wrong.
There's no "faith" involved.
You misunderstand the level of "attachment" to dark matter.
Except that the story of Noah isn't exactly an historical fact.
The answer is that all men have the inclination to do wrong. Me included in that.I am no different than any one else. Just as Noah was not different than anyone else. But what Noah did was to choose to live under God's standards instead of what the rest of the world was doing. There are many people doing that today, I also choose that. All these people are just like anyone else, me included, the difference from the world is this choice, along with actions.
So left to my own devices, I would be the same as the world is. And actually it is always a battle , to fight that.
Now this choice is open for everyone, but it is known that most people don't want it. Just like in Noah's day.
I don't want to get into too much the religious aspect, because I don't know what you think about a God. I don't know if you believe in a God or not or who you think he is etc.
Also it was not my intention to direct anyone in that direction. My only intent was to get ones to at least check out what science is saying. Scientist do not have the answer, but the science does support creation.
I hope this answers your question. It is a good question, but really has a religious answer.
No it doesn't.
This is a good question, and is really what concerns people today.
The answer is, a great future. But before that happens it's going to get much worse. To the point people are going to wonder if anyone will survive. There will have to be an intervention, other wise the people on this planet will be lost.
It's not so much that people don't know what to do, it is more that they don't have the will. And as other posts mentioned , there is a force driving man in the wrong direction.
Also wrong.
You clearly have no idea what science is or how it works.
But you've demonstrated that consistently in your posts.