Can Scientists & Mystics Work Together?

Actually there are some big difference in humans , like dwarfism for example.

And if humans were sufficiently dwarfish (dwarvish?) they might actually not be able to breed human wildtype male x dwarf female. There doesn't appear to be any reproductive isolation in humans, but give it enough time and there would be. Compare that to the largest and smallest of dogs, or to flies with major mutations. Prezygotic barriers to mating will promote postzygotic barriers to breeding.
 
It certainly does not. "Damaged" (mutant) flies often retain their mutations, so long as the the mutation is being carried in the germinal line. If you suppressed a mutation with outbreeding, the genes could still be carried in the resulting admixed population, with odd atavisms occurring in later generations within the same breeding pool. Hell, lad, I've got a new mutant in the lab myself that breeds true. It's nothing magical.
Bugs found in the real world are almost exactly as one found that been dated millions of years ago. The lab is intelligent playing around. Besides did these flies become mosquitoes or are they just mutant flies?
 
The lab isn't intelligent playing around, nor is the mutant I've got a bug. It was completely spontaneous.

And mosquitoes are part of the Diptera. So they are a type of fly.
 
But that's simply incorrect. There are many known examples of human ancestor species. Do you need me to provide you with a link to start your education on this topic? You can google it yourself. Look up "human evolution".
The evidence that scientstis have is that a human has another human, dogs have dogs cats have cats. There is no other evidence. It is not found in the fossil record or anywhere else. That something 'evloved' into something else is only science fiction. Scientist have to go beyond what the evidence says to say such things. Even the start to life scientists do not know how that happened.
 
No. It is not science fiction in any manner. I have responded to you appropriately on the other thread. I suggest you move your replies there.
 
But suppose that the mutation makes the offspring better able to survive, and/or causes them to have more offspring. In the first generation, we have 99 unmutated sets of offspring and 1 mutated set. The mutated set all survive while some of the unmutated ones don't reproduce. In the next generation, the proportion of animals with the favourable mutation is larger than 1 in 100. Now it might be 1 in 50, say. The mutated ones are still more successful, leading in the next generation to a further increase in proportions, to 1 in 20 or 1 in 10. And so on and so on until the original "mutants" comprise virtually the entire population of animals. And as these mutant animals come to dominate, they become increasing likely to be fossilised, too.
Do you understand this explanation?
I understand your explanation, this is a theory. Scientists are full of this kind of thing.But did it happen in the real world. Scientists can theorize how a loaf of bread could happen with different conditions and all of that, but did or does it happen in real life? With bread no it doesn't, it takes intelligence to do it. Also all sorts of animals and humans have mutations and we don't see any of these changing into something that is not human, or animals changing into something other than what they are.
That is the evidence we have, the rest of what scientist say , are just stories until they can prove that what they are saying could actually happen.
This is scientists theories, they have to prove it. Because it goes against the facts that we have.
 
I just told you that evolutionary scientists do know why whales have leg bones inside their bodies. But you're telling me Creationists have no explanation for that.

So, do you admit that evolution is a superior theory in explaining this?
As a creationist we were not given detailed information on the actually making of life. This is what scientists have taken on. Scientists are really good at the science, but their interpretation of the science, is something else again. They have gone against all practical wisdom and the facts we have to say that 'evolution' explains anything.
 
Evolution didn't know how to do it. Evolution has no aim. Legs developed gradually, just like everything else in evolution. Where are the trial and errors? In the fossil record, for one thing. For example, fish have no legs. Why? Answer: because having legs does not help a fish to survive better - in fact they can be detrimental. Natural selection selects against legs in fish, but it supports them in, say, a bird.

Do you understand this point?
This doesn't make sense, because why evolve at all if you are surviving now just fine. Legs or anything would be a burden and discarded, before it was complete. The same with reproduction , just dividing is much more efficient, than needing two sex's. You could fill the earth on just this alone. You don't need any other animals or plants to survive.
 
And if humans were sufficiently dwarfish (dwarvish?) they might actually not be able to breed human wildtype male x dwarf female. There doesn't appear to be any reproductive isolation in humans, but give it enough time and there would be. Compare that to the largest and smallest of dogs, or to flies with major mutations. Prezygotic barriers to mating will promote postzygotic barriers to breeding.
But in the end DNA tries to keep things centered, and not to deviate too far. Time is used by scientists to say that anything is possible, but that is simply not the case.
 
No. It is not science fiction in any manner. I have responded to you appropriately on the other thread. I suggest you move your replies there.
Yah , it can get a little confusing. I do a few posts here then go over and do a few more in the other thread. I am probably answering 6 or more people at a time.:eek:
 
This doesn't make sense, because why evolve at all if you are surviving now just fine. Legs or anything would be a burden and discarded, before it was complete. The same with reproduction , just dividing is much more efficient, than needing two sex's. You could fill the earth on just this alone. You don't need any other animals or plants to survive.
Even in development, legs or primordial legs served some purpose. Your statement reveals your ignorance of the theory you are trying to refute. Don't you think you should try to understand the thing you are refuting? No, that would be too much for creationists, who maintain their ignorance at all costs. To do otherwise would jeopardize your precious faith. Faith is belief in the absence of evidence.

But in the end DNA tries to keep things centered, and not to deviate too far. Time is used by scientists to say that anything is possible, but that is simply not the case.
That's right, it doesn't deviate too far typically. That's why it takes 3 billion fucking years to go from a cell to a human. A human is still just a community of cells, so we didn't even deviate all that much.
 
Even in development, legs or primordial legs served some purpose. Your statement reveals your ignorance of the theory you are trying to refute. Don't you think you should try to understand the thing you are refuting? No, that would be too much for creationists, who maintain their ignorance at all costs. To do otherwise would jeopardize your precious faith. Faith is belief in the absence of evidence.
I was answering a question from James R, about fish not needing legs so they don't evolve any. And this is exactly the point, why would anything evolve something that is useless, and may even be a death sentence. That is why for a leg or many other things need a complete system of parts before anyone of them is any good or useful. Also the DNA tries to keep the life form centered, and not to go off in some direction.
The evidence we have is that humans have two arms two legs and our DNA tries to keep us to that. Even two people that have mutations that mate can produce normal offspring. The DNA is centering force.
This support creation.
 
I was answering a question from James R, about fish not needing legs so they don't evolve any. And this is exactly the point, why would anything evolve something that is useless, and may even be a death sentence. That is why for a leg or many other things need a complete system of parts before anyone of them is any good or useful. Also the DNA tries to keep the life form centered, and not to go off in some direction.
The evidence we have is that humans have two arms two legs and our DNA tries to keep us to that. Even two people that have mutations that mate can produce normal offspring. The DNA is centering force.
This support creation.


why would anything evolve something that is useless?

In fact, nothing ever evolves something that is useless. Is that a good answer?

Yes, DNA tries to prevent variations, but there is enough room for change that change happens.
 
That's right, it doesn't deviate too far typically. That's why it takes 3 billion fucking years to go from a cell to a human. A human is still just a community of cells, so we didn't even deviate all that much.
Scientists always use the billions of years card, as though anything could happen because of time. But is that so.?
It couldn't create a loaf of bread. Or a Harley. The design in life, show complex bio machines, that need creation to have it work.
Scientists have gone against the evidence and reason , to say anything different than that.
 
why would anything evolve something that is useless?

In fact, nothing ever evolves something that is useless. Is that a good answer?

Yes, DNA tries to prevent variations, but there is enough room for change that change happens.
We can pass our traits to our children, over time some areas of the population their offspring, may grow taller and some from another area Our skin color maybe different, these kinds of changes do happen. But we are still human. We are not chimps or anything else, than human. The same with dogs and with cats.
That is the evidence that we have.
 
As a creationist we were not given detailed information on the actually making of life. This is what scientists have taken on.

And this is what creationists have not taken on: whatever information is or is not given at actually making life, surely we, as rational beings, can deduce it?

They have gone against all practical wisdom and the facts we have to say that 'evolution' explains anything.

They certainly have not. What possible "practical wisdom" can creationism claim to on the basis of ignorance? I remind you of your comment:

As a creationist we were not given detailed information on the actually making of life.

But in the end DNA tries to keep things centered, and not to deviate too far.

Certainly not, or not in the manner you describe. Mutations can cause a variety of novel morphologies. Are you now saying these cannot come to fruition, or cannot replace ancestral forms? What happened to the earliest breeds of dogs? Surely their DNA kept them centred, so as not to change into the near-bewildering array of breeds we have today?

Time is used by scientists to say that anything is possible, but that is simply not the case.

It simply is, unless you have a numeric argument to the contrary.
 
Yes, it is so. Evolution did make a load of bread by evolving yeast. In fact, some strains of yeast are only found among humans and never in nature. Yeast is an example of evolution (domestication).

There is no design in nature, only the appearance of it. I would list the reasons, but you are too stupid or deliberately obtuse to understand it.
 
We can pass our traits to our children, over time some areas of the population their offspring, may grow taller and some from another area Our skin color maybe different, these kinds of changes do happen. But we are still human. We are not chimps or anything else, than human. The same with dogs and with cats.
That is the evidence that we have.

There is no such thing as a "dog" or a "cat", or a "human". These are artificial labels we assign to a broad spectrum of variation. When the variation becomes too great, we give it another name. All living things are variations on a single ancestor. If that was named "primordia", we would all still be "primordias", because we are just variations of it.
 
Well, I think we've answered the question about whether Scientists and Mystics can work together?

New proposed thread:

Can Scientists & Fishsticks Work Together?
 
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