Can Scientists & Mystics Work Together?

If people post falsehoods, then scientists use logic and reason to refute them.
Which was done: your "errors" were pointed out in my posts.
It didn't require logic or reasoning, simply reading the link you provided and NOT ignoring the bits that made a nonsense of your interpretation.

Only religious inquisitors and evolutionists resort to censorship.
By censorship I take it you mean banning.
That would be due to the fact that you're already banned and refuse to stay away.
In other words you're a repeat idiot.
 
Why don't you just admit you don't believe in science?

Evolution is Anaximander's ancient hypothesis that man came from a fish and it's a joke.

Man lives alongside fish and has for the past 500,000,000 years.
 
Theists and atheists have lived alongside each other for a while now too. Why isn't one of the two groups extinct?
 
In your thought experiment , that would be the same for creation also. There is no difference. The point is that what ever gets to breed, passes on what it has. That why even in humans there is a variety tall to short, for example.
This has nothing to do with evolution. This need to test out the fittest animal, where did that come from? Where did the need to breed come from. It is not always the biggest, that gets to breed, for some it's how good of a home he can make. So in the DNA how does this information get in the DNA in the first place.
If a single is live some how , how does it know to divide to copy itself. It would have to do this correctly the first time and faster than it dies off.
Where did that ability come from?

Whatever gets to breed, passes on it's traits. That is evolution. What keeps a form stable? There is no other force to maintain an animal in it's classic form. There is no platonic "ideal" of a particular animal form. Natural selection adapts living things to their environment, and causes branching and diversity of form. The DNA gets this information from error and mutation. When slight variations are better, they are preserved. The accumulation of this information leads to new structures like arms and legs.

Ok I read this on the" Cretaceous Octopus With Ink And Suckers The World's Least Likely Fossils?"
This tells you a couple of things. First off, they were surprised to find so much the same as modern ones. This tells you that they stayed very much the same ( no evolving) over this period of time. They didn't evolve into something that is not an Octopus, it still was an Octopus and very close to the ones we have now. This is against the idea of evolution, and is evidence of creation. If we don't have exactly the same one now, that also could because of extinction , we know of a lot of animals that,that is what happened. So these animals just popped up very old, so when did they have time to evolve? Why are they not evolving now? This is evidence of creation.
You have just proved that evolution did not happen with these animals.

Appearance does not mean no evolution happened. We can find ancient ants in amber, and to the untrained eye, they look exactly like modern ones, but they are not. Everything evolves all the time, due to selection pressures from diseases and parasites, even if the outer form of the thing stays more or less the same.

The question is how did these Octopi, evolve to be Octopi, I mean before the time when they we alive. How did they get to be what they are and why did they stay the same , with the same defenses etc. Where is the evolution?
Transitional means the ones between the ' completed' life forms. This means the ones, where they are developing, parts but are not completed. The gross looking things. That probably would not survive very long. And this is why mutations don't really changes things very much, they likely would die off.
This is an example of creation and why evolution is impossible.

Fossilization is so rare, that so far we only seem to have found one fossil octopus from that era. We would expect to eventually find more primitive octopi, but soft-bodied animals don't fossilize well. Transitional forms are all perfectly adapted to their environment, not "gross things" that don't work.

This shows that evolution is not correct.
It also shows why we don't see transitional animals now. They don't evolve. There are changes of size and color etc, but no dog becomes a bear or anything like that. And things are complete, and very much the same as when they first came about.
This does support creation.
DNA is really a centralizing force.It try's to keep things from going too far. Though allowing some variety, and some adapting.
All animals are in transition, but the fact is most environmental niches are filled, and animals keep their lifestyles as long as conditions stay more or less the same. Changing size and color is evolution too. Over long periods of time, the change is dramatic. Over short periods of time, the change is less apparent. At one time, the primitive dog and the primitive bear were the same mammal. If creation were true, why are ancient animals so different from the ones we have now? Why, at one time, were there no birds, and now there are? Why at one time were there no flowering plants, but there are now?

If you have a single cell, with no DNA, how do you eventually get a completed leg? The leg has a thigh bone and shin and ankle and foot and toes.
If I give science that the cell can divide , or copy itself. Science says , that very small changes would happen. So say it produced a little bones material. How did this bones material get into non existing DNA so that it could pass it on? Now there is no shape or anything to suggest a leg is coming. So it is just a chunk of bone material. It might kill the host or if it didn't. What would the next cell do with it. Where would it be placed, what shape should it be? For this leg to work, you need a brain and heart , other bones and muscles and nerves, and lungs and all of that. That would leave a lot of messy looking cells before anything could be construed to be a leg. and then work. But it needs four of them to run and walk.
Evolution is impossible, creation is the only answer.

Very primitive single celled creatures known as diatoms do have skeletons made from an adapted cell wall. The brains and hearts, and muscles had to evolve at the same time as the bones. The selection pressure that made this happen was like an arms race. Everything was trying to eat each other, so any slight advantage would be preserved. It's hard to grasp for some people, but it is elegantly simple, and it explains the fossil record in a way no other theory can.
 
There is more than one species of bird and these are not even two species.

That's madness! No two species of bird can coexist, if one be more or less derived than the original line! Why isn't one of them extinct, Goddamnit?

Just like theist and Darwinists, isn't it? Darwinists evolved from theists, and so should have replaced them completely by now. Right? Right.
 
Like, say, Cornflakes and Sugar Puffs shouldn't exist at the same time?
 
Exactly like that. One replaces the other. You can't have some twisted anachronisms running around when a more modern item is on the market! How could there possibly be a niche for multiple lifeforms or commercial products?

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On the other hand do you remember Mosheh Thezion?
I followed a link of his once and discovered a cache of his "writings": according to him fish crawl out of the sea all day every day and start to transform into humans - due to sunlight.
But we never see these new humans because they get eaten partway through the transformation by animals living on the coast.
 
He was probably just confused. We see those kind of mutations all the time in East Korea.

But he was right in a sort of confused, un-right way: mutation is indeed going on all the time. Maybe there's something positive to be drawn from his works. Did he ever think that people resembled pyramids?

Oh, Happeh: wither art thou?
 
By the way it is nice to be actually talking some science for a change.

Whatever gets to breed, passes on it's traits. That is evolution. What keeps a form stable? There is no other force to maintain an animal in it's classic form. There is no platonic "ideal" of a particular animal form. Natural selection adapts living things to their environment, and causes branching and diversity of form. The DNA gets this information from error and mutation. When slight variations are better, they are preserved. The accumulation of this information leads to new structures like arms and legs.
Yes this is what I said for creation. This 'force' comes from the DNA , it tries to keep things the same and limits reproduction, to other types of animals. It does allow for variety. The DNA gets it's information from the instruction put into it in the first place. Now mutations are usually bad for the host. But mutations come from preexisting DNA ( instructions) This DNA has to come from somewhere first. So this is a problem from a single cell that has no DNA. It is an amazing thing that a cell can copy itself. Where did that come from? A cell is not that simple, it has parts to it, it can't evolve the parts, because before has the parts and is complete to survive, it is not alive. A catch 22 situation. There also is no DNA that can mutate. There is no heredity. Besides this cell doesn't know it has to survive. Where did this ability come from? Science does not know how life started and it doesn't know if this ability to copy itself, could happen on its own or was it created that way.

Now when you get into macroevolution, you also have a problem. If you have a whale with fins at the sides, and science says they eventually move more to the front ,by the head and turn into flippers. If this is caused by mutations , that gradually move this fins, the mutations would also be in the record, where the fins moved backwards, or up ,or to the bottom etc. You would also have to have mutations that changed the fins into flippers with all the transitional, errors that would cause.
This is not found in the fossil record. And to say that we don't have all the fossils to record this is not true. Because there should be more of these than the that are useful. Besides science has never seen this take place. We do see mutations, like extra arms on a human, even an extra head, and joined twins etc. But we don't see people with two heads starting a new race of humans. We should see all of these types or errors in all forms of life, now also. but there are none.
Science uses the idea that they look alike , but that doesn't mean one came from the other. A creator can use DNA and a just it a bit and get another slightly different creation. He can also take a cell and put the required information in the DNA.
DNA tries to keep things centered, it is only errors that cause mutations.
So science is going to have to show without their interference ( like experiments) that life can come from non life, and Evolution can actually happen. All science has right now are ideas, no actual evidence.



Appearance does not mean no evolution happened. We can find ancient ants in amber, and to the untrained eye, they look exactly like modern ones, but they are not. Everything evolves all the time, due to selection pressures from diseases and parasites, even if the outer form of the thing stays more or less the same.
Appearances does not mean evolution did happen. There are many bugs and plants and animals, and many are similar to each other. Many have become extinct.



Fossilization is so rare, that so far we only seem to have found one fossil octopus from that era. We would expect to eventually find more primitive octopi, but soft-bodied animals don't fossilize well. Transitional forms are all perfectly adapted to their environment, not "gross things" that don't work.
This is a big problem for science, because it is not the lack of fossils, it is the lack of the transitional fossils. They would have to have survived also to reproduce and pass on the mutations.So they all couldn't have died at birth. If they did then there would be no changes at all. The truth here is that science has not thought this through. There should be millions of these transitional fossils, and there would be all these transitional animals around to day. But this is exactly what you would expect from creation . Non of these transitional ones would exist. But the the completed ones with all four legs working under animal, with all the correct brain connections and wiring set up.
All animals are in transition, but the fact is most environmental niches are filled, and animals keep their lifestyles as long as conditions stay more or less the same. Changing size and color is evolution too. Over long periods of time, the change is dramatic. Over short periods of time, the change is less apparent. At one time, the primitive dog and the primitive bear were the same mammal. If creation were true, why are ancient animals so different from the ones we have now? Why, at one time, were there no birds, and now there are? Why at one time were there no flowering plants, but there are now?
Things would have to be created in proper arrangements.
The dinosaurs for example, were different than we have now. But there is a good reason for this.
The earth at one time was rock , water, and sand. The earth needed organic matter in the soil, so that things can grow. So thing would have been created to accomplish that. The animals kept the trees in check and spread their seeds , other animals would keep, the plants eating animals in check, and so on. All if a tree was created, it may have taken a thousand year for it to spread through the earth. There is a symbiotic relationships between plants and animals. Some of the biggest and deadly animals came before man and now, this was for cultivating the earth. Also this helped create the correct atmosphere for life.



Very primitive single celled creatures known as diatoms do have skeletons made from an adapted cell wall. The brains and hearts, and muscles had to evolve at the same time as the bones. The selection pressure that made this happen was like an arms race. Everything was trying to eat each other, so any slight advantage would be preserved. It's hard to grasp for some people, but it is elegantly simple, and it explains the fossil record in a way no other theory can.
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There is no advantage for uncompleted systems. Science is going to have to show that all these organs and the wiring and the bones all happened at the same time for any of this to be of use. How does evolution know where to place a thigh bone and the right shape and length and then make, a shin bone to fit it but not touch it, but use different materials to connect those bones, and then make muscle material and join those also and the wire them and then the brain know how to use , so a four legged animal can run in different gaits.
This is just impossible , and is the reason why science can't show that any of this happened, or could happen.
 
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By the way it is nice to be actually talking some science for a change.
You start off well and then...

Yes this is what I said for creation. blah blah blah same old crap that hs been refuted many times All science has right now are ideas, no actual evidence.
You turn completely away from science and resort to the usual "La la la I can't hear you. You're not saying anything convincing because I'm not listening".

This is a big problem for science, because it is not the lack of fossils, it is the lack of the transitional fossils.
As has been pointed out: we DO have transitional fossils.

More trolling, more ignorance.
 
By the way it is nice to be actually talking some science for a change.


Yes this is what I said for creation. Science does not know how life started ...science has never seen this take place. All science has right now are ideas, no actual evidence... science has not thought this through. this is exactly what you would expect from creation ...science can't show that any of this happened, or could happen.

The qualifiers of your post are no different than before, you are simply parroting yourself. The rest of your post is gibberish demonstrating an incredible lack of thinking skills, research and evidence.
 
Wow, you are operating under so many misconceptions, it's too much for me to list. Let me just point out the major one, about transitions. Let me say again, all living things that ever existed are transitional. During some periods of time, the evolutionary change is less rapid, in other times, more rapid. No uncompleted systems ever existed (except in cases of birth defects and the like). We do indeed see this in the fossil record. What shaped these transitions? Natural selection. All life that ever existed had some means of heredity, it defines life, but that means was not always DNA.

Evolution has occurred in the lab, I gave the example of E. coli. In the lab, one particular strain of E. coli developed a mutation. Then, later one, it developed an additional mutation that together, enabled it to metabolize citrate. In the lab, evolution led to a life form that could eat something no other life form of it's kind could do. That's like a human developing the ability to live on wood. The reason they used E. coli was that many, many generations (thousands) could be observed. Animals that reproduce more slowly do not change as quickly.

The things you are saying science has no idea about have already been established. It's frustrating when you assert things do not exist that are common knowledge in the scientific community.
 
Wow, you are operating under so many misconceptions, it's too much for me to list. Let me just point out the major one, about transitions. Let me say again, all living things that ever existed are transitional. During some periods of time, the evolutionary change is less rapid, in other times, more rapid. No uncompleted systems ever existed (except in cases of birth defects and the like). We do indeed see this in the fossil record. What shaped these transitions? Natural selection. All life that ever existed had some means of heredity, it defines life, but that means was not always DNA.

Transitional animals are the ones where evolution is trying to make legs where a bit of bone happens, and then that is pasted on , and then a bit more is added and then a shape starts to emerge, etc. You would to go through all the different placements and and shapes etc. You would need the line that this would follow. For any of this to be passed on , they would have to survive, and reproduce. This is what is not found in the fossil record. As it is right now with the evidence.
Where does heredity come from, say for the first life?
 
Transitional animals are the ones where evolution is trying to make legs where a bit of bone happens, and then that is pasted on , and then a bit more is added and then a shape starts to emerge, etc.
Totally and utterly incorrect: Spidergoat has explained exactly what a transitional form is, and the fact you are simply inventing your own definitions doesn't mean you're correct, nor does it invalidate the facts.
 
The things you are saying science has no idea about have already been established. It's frustrating when you assert things do not exist that are common knowledge in the scientific community.
That is part of the problem, what is accepted in the scientific community, may not be correct. There have been scientists, that have staked their reputation on evidence that doesn't support , the general view , but the pressure from the rest makes it very difficult, for these ones. This is the same thing that religious marters had to deal with when they realized that a church wasn't following their own guide lines.
This was the whole point , that what science is saying is not correct, it could never happen, the way they say.
All science has to do is get some single cell without DNA , and see what happens. Lets see if it can make eye and legs etc.
 
That is part of the problem, what is accepted in the scientific community, may not be correct.

You wouldn't know that as you know nothing about science, so your critique is invalid.

All science has to do is get some single cell without DNA , and see what happens. Lets see if it can make eye and legs etc.

Point confirmed.
 
That is part of the problem, what is accepted in the scientific community, may not be correct. There have been scientists, that have staked their reputation on evidence that doesn't support , the general view , but the pressure from the rest makes it very difficult, for these ones. This is the same thing that religious marters had to deal with when they realized that a church wasn't following their own guide lines.
This was the whole point , that what science is saying is not correct, it could never happen, the way they say.
All science has to do is get some single cell without DNA , and see what happens. Lets see if it can make eye and legs etc.

We will never see an eye evolve in the lab. Such a complex structure would take too many generations to develop. But that is unnecessary, since the basic concept has been observed in the lab with simpler mechanisms. If evolution works AT ALL, then it proves that it is the mechanism by which all species came about.

That's what scientists do, they set up experiments to test the principle from a simplified example.
 
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