Can Buddhism be more reliable than Christianity?
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Siddhartha
Registered Senior Member
The river tells no lies, yet standing on the shore, the dishonest man still hears them.
Jenyar,
“Son of Man” means, son of man, I can see no reason to think it means anything else, both in the statement itself, and the context it used in. Please feel free to show me why it should not be taken literally.
Ezekiel 1,
1:2 (In the fifth day of the month-the fifth year of King Jehoiachin's exile- 1:3 the word of the Lord came to the priest Ezekiel the [b}son of Buzi,[/b]
Ezekiel 2:1-5
1 And he said to me, Son of man, get up on your feet, so that I may say words to you (the preist, Ezeiel). 2 And at his words the spirit came into me and put me on my feet; and his voice came to my ears. 3 And he said to me, Son of man (again, Ezekiel0, I am sending you to the children of Israel,
Mathew,
36 Then Jesus sent the multitudes away, and went into the house. His talmidim came to him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field." 37 He answered them, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the darnel are the sons of the evil one.
If it meant mere men, Jesus wouldn't have been accused of blasphemy!
Who were the ones who accused him of blasphemy?
What do you mean not “a god-conscious”?
Are you saying that Jesus was not “God-conscious”, that he ever made moves without it being the will of God, that he wasn’t thinking about God all the time?
If that is what you think, then you haven’t comprehended what I have said.
My understanding is that re-incarnation is the transmigration of the soul from one life to another, ressurection is when you leave your dead body (in a subtle body) once and for all, and then the journey begins.
Try and understand that you are only a man for a limited time, you are Jenyar now, but there will come a time when Jenyar will not ever exist again, so in that respect man only dies once. But what you don’t seem to take into consideration, is that you are not this body. The distinction is made clear in genisis, where God made Adam out of the dust, then breathed life into him and he became a living soul. The life force is God, so we are in essense a part of God, we therefore do not die if we fully understand our eternal relationship with God, but we die if we accept the body as the self, either God-conscious and self-consciousness.
Christ wasn’t sacrificed, he sacrificed his life, there is a difference.
This refers to to “man” which is a physical manifestation, just an elaborate machine/temple, which the soul has developed in its own likeness, so it can act in the phenomenal world, which, like with any other machines, eventually wears out and disintigrates. It bears no mention of the eternal soul, which is equal in quality to God.
Love
Jan Ardena.
“Son of Man” means, son of man, I can see no reason to think it means anything else, both in the statement itself, and the context it used in. Please feel free to show me why it should not be taken literally.
Ezekiel 1,
1:2 (In the fifth day of the month-the fifth year of King Jehoiachin's exile- 1:3 the word of the Lord came to the priest Ezekiel the [b}son of Buzi,[/b]
Ezekiel 2:1-5
1 And he said to me, Son of man, get up on your feet, so that I may say words to you (the preist, Ezeiel). 2 And at his words the spirit came into me and put me on my feet; and his voice came to my ears. 3 And he said to me, Son of man (again, Ezekiel0, I am sending you to the children of Israel,
Mathew,
36 Then Jesus sent the multitudes away, and went into the house. His talmidim came to him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field." 37 He answered them, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the darnel are the sons of the evil one.
If it meant mere men, Jesus wouldn't have been accused of blasphemy!
Who were the ones who accused him of blasphemy?
What do you mean not “a god-conscious”?
Are you saying that Jesus was not “God-conscious”, that he ever made moves without it being the will of God, that he wasn’t thinking about God all the time?
If that is what you think, then you haven’t comprehended what I have said.
My understanding is that re-incarnation is the transmigration of the soul from one life to another, ressurection is when you leave your dead body (in a subtle body) once and for all, and then the journey begins.
Try and understand that you are only a man for a limited time, you are Jenyar now, but there will come a time when Jenyar will not ever exist again, so in that respect man only dies once. But what you don’t seem to take into consideration, is that you are not this body. The distinction is made clear in genisis, where God made Adam out of the dust, then breathed life into him and he became a living soul. The life force is God, so we are in essense a part of God, we therefore do not die if we fully understand our eternal relationship with God, but we die if we accept the body as the self, either God-conscious and self-consciousness.
Christ wasn’t sacrificed, he sacrificed his life, there is a difference.
This refers to to “man” which is a physical manifestation, just an elaborate machine/temple, which the soul has developed in its own likeness, so it can act in the phenomenal world, which, like with any other machines, eventually wears out and disintigrates. It bears no mention of the eternal soul, which is equal in quality to God.
I understand what you are saying, but with respect, I sometimes don’t think you are looking at it for what it actually means, but seeing from your own perspective. I think at this level, you have to take everything literally, before you start interpreting.
Love
Jan Ardena.
Jan,
Just to let you know - I'm not being deliberately obtuse. I think what we believe overlaps to a certain degree; just enough to confuse the issue but not enough to clear it up. We both agree on the impermanence of the mortal body, and on the everlasting soul. We agree that we should set our eyes on the eternal, and not become trapped in our physical existence. We differ on our awareness of God's presence and His interaction with our mortal and immortal bodies.
Matthew 26
64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.
The high priest himself accused Jesus of blasphemy. Can you justify his reaction if Jesus referred to anybody other than Jesus himself? No other man can be understood as "coming on the clouds of heaven". This wasn't a reference to our being with God. Jesus went up into heaven on "the clouds, to sit at the right hand of God"; you can hardly read the New Testament and not believe that.
John 9
35Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
36"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."
37Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."
38Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
Does any man deserve to be worshipped? But Jesus did not stop this man from worshipping him, while all His disciples did. Jesus was also speaking of himself in the parable of the sower, He says: "the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom" - Good seeds: good people, Bad seeds: bad people. It doesn't leave much room for interpreting Son of Man as just anybody.
It surprises me that you didn't end up with more questions than answers after reading the whole passage:
Matt. 13
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
I think you should read the parables again: Judgement does not depend on us. Whether we are enlightened or not, we will die mortally, and be resurrected in a changed body to be judged. The Holy Spirit is our "god-consciousness". Without God, we would have only ourselves to know. This might be important as well - but it does not bring you closer to God. Only God does that, through his Son and his Spirit - physically and spiritually.
All evidence in the Bible points to one mortal life (Job), eternal spiritual life (John), and judgement of both (Matthew). Transmigration would not carry any useful physical information to the next body. In essence our spirits would be unrecognizable and the same as every other soul: an irreducible particularity. Eternal life in the sense of samsara equates eternal death. This is completely contradictory to Jesus' teachings that eternal life is freedom. You can either try to save yourself, and hope you learn the unlearnable, remember everything there isn't to remember. Or you can trust God to give you the knowledge that you need, and be saved by nothing more than faith. At the end of this life - because you need no more. Jesus saved this life - this is the one that is sacred and cherished by God, even though it is mortal. Otherwise the Son of Man would not have been the Son of Man, or called himself that. He would have remained the Son of God, and expected us to become the same by our own efforts.
Just to let you know - I'm not being deliberately obtuse. I think what we believe overlaps to a certain degree; just enough to confuse the issue but not enough to clear it up. We both agree on the impermanence of the mortal body, and on the everlasting soul. We agree that we should set our eyes on the eternal, and not become trapped in our physical existence. We differ on our awareness of God's presence and His interaction with our mortal and immortal bodies.
If you read my quote again: Jesus asks these people whether they believe in the Son of Man. Figuratively, it would have been understood the the Messiah (the prophet, of which Ezekiel would be a symbol) but literally it means Jesus! This time I will quote the text in full:
Matthew 26
64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.
The high priest himself accused Jesus of blasphemy. Can you justify his reaction if Jesus referred to anybody other than Jesus himself? No other man can be understood as "coming on the clouds of heaven". This wasn't a reference to our being with God. Jesus went up into heaven on "the clouds, to sit at the right hand of God"; you can hardly read the New Testament and not believe that.
John 9
35Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
36"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."
37Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."
38Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
Does any man deserve to be worshipped? But Jesus did not stop this man from worshipping him, while all His disciples did. Jesus was also speaking of himself in the parable of the sower, He says: "the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom" - Good seeds: good people, Bad seeds: bad people. It doesn't leave much room for interpreting Son of Man as just anybody.
It surprises me that you didn't end up with more questions than answers after reading the whole passage:
Matt. 13
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
I meant "god-consciousness", as in the 'life force' - Jesus was 'God-conscious' to the utmost degree, but He was still as real as you and me. We strive to be like Him, but we are not part of God the same way He was. In spirit, yes, and there we agree. But we are not God.
You are starting at the right place, but end up at a tangent. We are spiritually part of God thought the Spirit of God - the Holy Spirit, which is why we are baptized in His name. John baptized with water, but Jesus came to baptize with fire. Fire burns, whether the weed or the wheat have "accepted their bodies as self and understand their relationship with God" or not!
I think you should read the parables again: Judgement does not depend on us. Whether we are enlightened or not, we will die mortally, and be resurrected in a changed body to be judged. The Holy Spirit is our "god-consciousness". Without God, we would have only ourselves to know. This might be important as well - but it does not bring you closer to God. Only God does that, through his Son and his Spirit - physically and spiritually.
All evidence in the Bible points to one mortal life (Job), eternal spiritual life (John), and judgement of both (Matthew). Transmigration would not carry any useful physical information to the next body. In essence our spirits would be unrecognizable and the same as every other soul: an irreducible particularity. Eternal life in the sense of samsara equates eternal death. This is completely contradictory to Jesus' teachings that eternal life is freedom. You can either try to save yourself, and hope you learn the unlearnable, remember everything there isn't to remember. Or you can trust God to give you the knowledge that you need, and be saved by nothing more than faith. At the end of this life - because you need no more. Jesus saved this life - this is the one that is sacred and cherished by God, even though it is mortal. Otherwise the Son of Man would not have been the Son of Man, or called himself that. He would have remained the Son of God, and expected us to become the same by our own efforts.
The Pharisees may have been famaliar with the Book of Enoch which uses the Son of Man as the messiah.
http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm
http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm
Jenyar,
You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, God instructed Ezekiel to stand up, He referred to him as “the son of man.” Ezekiel was not Jesus, he was Ezekiel. His character was obviously one of high standing, otherwise God wouldn’t have associated with him personally, but he was not Jesus.
I understand what you mean when you say it means Jesus, but Jesus was a representative of God, who played the part of a man perfectly, without fault, to set the standard, who came at a particular time, when he was needed.
Why did you miss out the verse before;
26:63 But Jesus was silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." 26:64 Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself.
As for the “son of man” mentioned in V64, there is no reason why Jesus was not talking about son of man, the good seed. For if they have come to maturity in their service to God, then they ar as good as God or Jesus, qualitively, so they could sit at the right hand of God.
Apart from the fact that the priests wanted to kill Jesus regardless of whether he was right or wrong (murder), their lack of understanding what he was in fact saying, their enthusiasm for elaborate rituals plus lack of knowledge of the power of God, their allowing nonsense (gambling etc) to be taking place in a place dedicated to the worship of God, how can you take their responses seriously, unless you are using it to learn how not to act and what not to do.
The point of Jesus’ teachings are to elevate the consciousness of man, so that he may come to the point of Jesus, that upon leaving this body, he can attain the same privelidge. Otherwise there is no point in his teachings, he may as well have come and died.
Technically, to that man, Jesus was a “son of man,” what else could he be? Also, as I have said before, Jesus played a role, that is all. The idea was to set a perfect example of how to live a life, without wasting it.
How could Jesus be “son of man?” To be a man one has to have been conceived by natural parents, there you get the title man, Jesus was not conceived in that way, he was conceived by God, therefore he is a “son of God.”
Yes, if he is a devotee of God.
Agreed, maybe rascals are deemed “son of women,” if you read genisis, Cain and Abel, the son whom Eve seemed to favour, turned out to be the rascal, whereas the other son was cool.
Job.14.1
As for man, the son of woman, his days are short and full of trouble.
15.14
What is man, that he may be clean? and how may the son of woman be upright?
I think, at this point, you are the one who needs to asking questions, because despite clear evidence as to the meaning of the “son of man,” you are still clinging to your understanding. At best, Jesus is the son of man, as a representative, but actually not a man in the constitutional sense, and sets an example for man. Apart from that everything leads to the “son of man” being heirs to their fathers, who desire to serve God.
Firstly, God is the life-force, how else did Adam become a living soul?
Secondly, you seem to be implying that I don’t think Jesus is as real as you and me. Why?
In what way was Jesus a part of God, that is different to our original position?
I never implied we are God, but we are part and parcel of God, indeed, from all accounts, everything is a part of God.
How can there be a “without God,” in reality?
Without God, how can we exist?
What do you mean “useful information?”
Our bodies, our parents, our selves, our situation maybe, but not the spiritual soul. God recognizes who each and every one of His children are, such is the Greatness of God.
Samsara does not mean eternal life, samsara means the cycle of birth and death. The wages of sin is death, so that means in order to die, one has to be born.
It is completely contradictory to you, because at present, you do not grasp it.
Faith is good, and one who can somehow not become entangled in material life, can come to the platform of eternal life, but in this day and age, how easy is it to maintain unbreakable faith, this is the reality. It is said that we have now, cosmically moved from the piscian age (the time of Jesus), to the aquarian age. The zodiac sign of aquarius is associated with scientific advancement and technology. This means there is, inevitabely, a shift of consciousness, so the people in this age are generally not satisfied with “just have faith” as an answer to the questions of life, they require more knowledge.
I believe faith is actually higher than knowledge, but to maintain it, is almost impossible nowadays, hence the state of the world.
Love
Jan Ardena.
You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, God instructed Ezekiel to stand up, He referred to him as “the son of man.” Ezekiel was not Jesus, he was Ezekiel. His character was obviously one of high standing, otherwise God wouldn’t have associated with him personally, but he was not Jesus.
I understand what you mean when you say it means Jesus, but Jesus was a representative of God, who played the part of a man perfectly, without fault, to set the standard, who came at a particular time, when he was needed.
Why did you miss out the verse before;
26:63 But Jesus was silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." 26:64 Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself.
As for the “son of man” mentioned in V64, there is no reason why Jesus was not talking about son of man, the good seed. For if they have come to maturity in their service to God, then they ar as good as God or Jesus, qualitively, so they could sit at the right hand of God.
Apart from the fact that the priests wanted to kill Jesus regardless of whether he was right or wrong (murder), their lack of understanding what he was in fact saying, their enthusiasm for elaborate rituals plus lack of knowledge of the power of God, their allowing nonsense (gambling etc) to be taking place in a place dedicated to the worship of God, how can you take their responses seriously, unless you are using it to learn how not to act and what not to do.
The point of Jesus’ teachings are to elevate the consciousness of man, so that he may come to the point of Jesus, that upon leaving this body, he can attain the same privelidge. Otherwise there is no point in his teachings, he may as well have come and died.
Technically, to that man, Jesus was a “son of man,” what else could he be? Also, as I have said before, Jesus played a role, that is all. The idea was to set a perfect example of how to live a life, without wasting it.
How could Jesus be “son of man?” To be a man one has to have been conceived by natural parents, there you get the title man, Jesus was not conceived in that way, he was conceived by God, therefore he is a “son of God.”
Yes, if he is a devotee of God.
Agreed, maybe rascals are deemed “son of women,” if you read genisis, Cain and Abel, the son whom Eve seemed to favour, turned out to be the rascal, whereas the other son was cool.
Job.14.1
As for man, the son of woman, his days are short and full of trouble.
15.14
What is man, that he may be clean? and how may the son of woman be upright?
I think, at this point, you are the one who needs to asking questions, because despite clear evidence as to the meaning of the “son of man,” you are still clinging to your understanding. At best, Jesus is the son of man, as a representative, but actually not a man in the constitutional sense, and sets an example for man. Apart from that everything leads to the “son of man” being heirs to their fathers, who desire to serve God.
Firstly, God is the life-force, how else did Adam become a living soul?
Secondly, you seem to be implying that I don’t think Jesus is as real as you and me. Why?
In what way was Jesus a part of God, that is different to our original position?
I never implied we are God, but we are part and parcel of God, indeed, from all accounts, everything is a part of God.
How can there be a “without God,” in reality?
Without God, how can we exist?
What do you mean “useful information?”
Our bodies, our parents, our selves, our situation maybe, but not the spiritual soul. God recognizes who each and every one of His children are, such is the Greatness of God.
Samsara does not mean eternal life, samsara means the cycle of birth and death. The wages of sin is death, so that means in order to die, one has to be born.
It is completely contradictory to you, because at present, you do not grasp it.
Faith is good, and one who can somehow not become entangled in material life, can come to the platform of eternal life, but in this day and age, how easy is it to maintain unbreakable faith, this is the reality. It is said that we have now, cosmically moved from the piscian age (the time of Jesus), to the aquarian age. The zodiac sign of aquarius is associated with scientific advancement and technology. This means there is, inevitabely, a shift of consciousness, so the people in this age are generally not satisfied with “just have faith” as an answer to the questions of life, they require more knowledge.
I believe faith is actually higher than knowledge, but to maintain it, is almost impossible nowadays, hence the state of the world.
Love
Jan Ardena.
Jan,
I can see how it is possible to have different readings. The words can carry both meanings, literal and figurative. I don't debate that.
But I don't think it is reasonable to just assume that the meanings were the same in the New Testament than they were in the Old. Ezekiel was a prophet, right? A chosen of God. Isiah once said:
Isaiah 8
18 Here am I, and the children the LORD has given me. We are signs and symbols in Israel from the LORD Almighty, who dwells on Mount Zion.
And I don't think it applies only to him. If the other prophets weren't didn't carry the same authority or symbolism, they wouldn't be prophets.
It is obvious that "Son of Man" is a term, even an honorific. Not just part of the normal sentence. So is "son of woman", a term Jesus never used. But I think it is more important to find out what Jesus thought about it, and whether he taught (and meant to teach) transmigration of the soul.
But before I start digging up verses again, please answer this question first: what do you suppose happens at the second coming of Christ? And specifically to those people who have not attained perfection yet?
BTW. What I meant with samsara being eternal life, is that death does not have much power if it is only a brief interruption of one continuous life.
Was Jesus just another in a long line of enlightened people who show the way? What special function did Jesus fulfill when God raised him bodily from death, so that "death lost its sting" - if death apparently had no sting? Who are the people described as being asleep in the Lord, who have already died? Jesus raised two people from death, why would He do that? The people who believed in Jesus also believed in death, hades and sheol - the grave. If they were convinced about reincarnation by Jesus (who would have known whether it was true), they would not have preached repentance of sins before the kingdom came again.
1 Corinthians 15
17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
Jesus carried everybody's "bad karma", to end the cycle of death. Only, the cycle includes only one mortal life, one mortal death, and thereafter one spiritual life... and for the unfortunate, one spiritual death (which the Bible calls the second death). Jesus was the first to be raised from the dead.
I can see how it is possible to have different readings. The words can carry both meanings, literal and figurative. I don't debate that.
But I don't think it is reasonable to just assume that the meanings were the same in the New Testament than they were in the Old. Ezekiel was a prophet, right? A chosen of God. Isiah once said:
Isaiah 8
18 Here am I, and the children the LORD has given me. We are signs and symbols in Israel from the LORD Almighty, who dwells on Mount Zion.
And I don't think it applies only to him. If the other prophets weren't didn't carry the same authority or symbolism, they wouldn't be prophets.
It is obvious that "Son of Man" is a term, even an honorific. Not just part of the normal sentence. So is "son of woman", a term Jesus never used. But I think it is more important to find out what Jesus thought about it, and whether he taught (and meant to teach) transmigration of the soul.
But before I start digging up verses again, please answer this question first: what do you suppose happens at the second coming of Christ? And specifically to those people who have not attained perfection yet?
BTW. What I meant with samsara being eternal life, is that death does not have much power if it is only a brief interruption of one continuous life.
Was Jesus just another in a long line of enlightened people who show the way? What special function did Jesus fulfill when God raised him bodily from death, so that "death lost its sting" - if death apparently had no sting? Who are the people described as being asleep in the Lord, who have already died? Jesus raised two people from death, why would He do that? The people who believed in Jesus also believed in death, hades and sheol - the grave. If they were convinced about reincarnation by Jesus (who would have known whether it was true), they would not have preached repentance of sins before the kingdom came again.
1 Corinthians 15
17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
Jesus carried everybody's "bad karma", to end the cycle of death. Only, the cycle includes only one mortal life, one mortal death, and thereafter one spiritual life... and for the unfortunate, one spiritual death (which the Bible calls the second death). Jesus was the first to be raised from the dead.
Jenyar...
It can only mean “son of man” unless otherwise indicated.
Adam came directly from God, Eve came from God, via Adam (rib). I believe during conception, the consciousness of the parents plays an important part, if the man is stronger, then the offspring may well be a boy, and take after his father, if the woman is stronger, the offspring may well be a girl. However, if the woman is stronger, but the offspring is a boy, then the boy will take after his mother, more than his father, hence the title “son of woman.”
The purpose of Jesus’ exemplary life was to “save,” so there was no need to teach people about the soul. The people were simple people who obviously had the ability to have strong faith. The transmigration of the soul, is a natural occurrence, it occurs whether you know about it or not. Generally, we cannot remember our previous incarnations, because it serves no purpose, as we are here and now, therefore, if you are a surrendered soul, to God, transmigration cannot take place, the souls next destination will be to God.
Knowledge of the soul is for a more fallen type of person, a person who needs such distinctive knowledge to convince them that their faith is worthwhile. This kind of knowledge is more applicable now.
You seem like a person with a lot of faith in God, and I have respect for you. My position is, my faith is weak, so I acquire knowledge in the hope of strength.
Please give some verses out of the Bible (preferably spoken by Jesus), pertaining to this event.
Death is a part of life, so I don’t see how it can have any more or less power than life. I believe what has power, is the fear of death.
Yes, I think so, but without the “just another.”
He showed that, in truth, man dies, but the soul or spirit, is everlasting, so there is no need to fear death or the threat of death. That God is not only All-Mighty, but real.
If somebody you knew did that in front of your eyes, wouldn’t it make you seriously think about God?
As I don’t have any context, I will hazard a guess based on your wording.
Sleep and ignorance are very similar, being asleep in the Lord, means they are not aware of the Lord, the Supreme reality, but they are awake in the flesh. The moment you are born, means you are dying, and have only a limited time. If you are not aware of the Lord, then you are as good as dead. Already died, could mean that they have no inclination to wake up and realise the truth, due to their actions, and as such are already dead.
Please give scriptoral reference.
Because their faith was strong and they expressed a desire. Also it showed his prowess and command over material nature, which one has to overcome if one is to advance in God-consciousness. And that kind of spectacle always attracts people.
[quoteThe people who believed in Jesus also believed in death, hades and sheol - the grave.[/quote]
Why would anyone believe in death? Apart from that, we are going to die whether or not we believe.
But only those who follow Jesus, implicitly, are karma free. So, how easy is it to follow Jesus’ path, that’s the question? Do you know anybody with even a quarter of the devotion to God Jesus had?
It is not as simple as it sounds.
As I said before, man only dies once, but how many times does the soul become a man. Each man is a different person, if he is conditioned, each man dies once, and that man never comes back. But the soul never dies, it belongs to God. If the soul does not want to serve God, then he serves his senses, so he has to accept a body suited to his condition.
What about the people whom Jesus raised from the dead, surely they were before him?
Love
Jan Ardena.
It can only mean “son of man” unless otherwise indicated.
Adam came directly from God, Eve came from God, via Adam (rib). I believe during conception, the consciousness of the parents plays an important part, if the man is stronger, then the offspring may well be a boy, and take after his father, if the woman is stronger, the offspring may well be a girl. However, if the woman is stronger, but the offspring is a boy, then the boy will take after his mother, more than his father, hence the title “son of woman.”
The purpose of Jesus’ exemplary life was to “save,” so there was no need to teach people about the soul. The people were simple people who obviously had the ability to have strong faith. The transmigration of the soul, is a natural occurrence, it occurs whether you know about it or not. Generally, we cannot remember our previous incarnations, because it serves no purpose, as we are here and now, therefore, if you are a surrendered soul, to God, transmigration cannot take place, the souls next destination will be to God.
Knowledge of the soul is for a more fallen type of person, a person who needs such distinctive knowledge to convince them that their faith is worthwhile. This kind of knowledge is more applicable now.
You seem like a person with a lot of faith in God, and I have respect for you. My position is, my faith is weak, so I acquire knowledge in the hope of strength.
Please give some verses out of the Bible (preferably spoken by Jesus), pertaining to this event.
Death is a part of life, so I don’t see how it can have any more or less power than life. I believe what has power, is the fear of death.
Yes, I think so, but without the “just another.”
He showed that, in truth, man dies, but the soul or spirit, is everlasting, so there is no need to fear death or the threat of death. That God is not only All-Mighty, but real.
If somebody you knew did that in front of your eyes, wouldn’t it make you seriously think about God?
As I don’t have any context, I will hazard a guess based on your wording.
Sleep and ignorance are very similar, being asleep in the Lord, means they are not aware of the Lord, the Supreme reality, but they are awake in the flesh. The moment you are born, means you are dying, and have only a limited time. If you are not aware of the Lord, then you are as good as dead. Already died, could mean that they have no inclination to wake up and realise the truth, due to their actions, and as such are already dead.
Please give scriptoral reference.
Because their faith was strong and they expressed a desire. Also it showed his prowess and command over material nature, which one has to overcome if one is to advance in God-consciousness. And that kind of spectacle always attracts people.
[quoteThe people who believed in Jesus also believed in death, hades and sheol - the grave.[/quote]
Why would anyone believe in death? Apart from that, we are going to die whether or not we believe.
But only those who follow Jesus, implicitly, are karma free. So, how easy is it to follow Jesus’ path, that’s the question? Do you know anybody with even a quarter of the devotion to God Jesus had?
It is not as simple as it sounds.
As I said before, man only dies once, but how many times does the soul become a man. Each man is a different person, if he is conditioned, each man dies once, and that man never comes back. But the soul never dies, it belongs to God. If the soul does not want to serve God, then he serves his senses, so he has to accept a body suited to his condition.
What about the people whom Jesus raised from the dead, surely they were before him?
Love
Jan Ardena.
Jan...
Luke 22:48
but Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
Judas wasn't betraying anybody but Jesus with his kiss.
Actually "Son of Man" is generic: Son of mankind (anthropos). It means "human", but is used as a designation, bestowed by God.
Matthew 16
25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. 26What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace...
Have you considered that the belief in transmigration of the soul and your consequent effort to escape the burden of karma to redeem yourself, might only weaken your faith?
You asked how hard it is to be like Jesus, to be free from our burdens:
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
If you believe this, you are already saved. And we are suffering like He suffered on the cross.
Matt 16
24Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.
Your words sound similar to those of Paul, except that you are trying to escape suffering by your own merit.
Philippians 3
10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
You need to trust Christ to do this for you. Baptism is a sign of that trust and that hope. Trust Jesus with your death. You are trying too hard to earn a life worthy of God. God has already made you worthy. That is the nature of faith. Jesus is the source of your strength, not a goal, but a gift. Jesus is God's mercy in action. Denying yourself and taking up your cross means facing suffering, persevering in faith, and resisting sin.
Isaiah 30:15
This is what the Sovereign LORD , the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it."
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
11After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."
12His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." 13Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, 15and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."
Then Jesus proceeded to raise Lazarus from the dead, but this is still not the resurrection. Lazarus died again, but Jesus "was raised, never to die again".
Those who have fallen asleep in Christ are those believers who have died (I'll have to look for the passage, but it exists), and are waiting for the resurrection. They are not inhabiting other bodies in the meanwhile. To each soul has been ascribed its own body, according to its nature:
1 Cor. 15
37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
If Christ had not been resurrected, those who fell asleep in Him (died while believing in Him) would have been lost. How much more would those people be lost who did not take part in Christ's resurrection and died while still in their sins (or "under the burden of their karma")?
Romans 6
4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin - 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
I hope I answered some of your other questions in the process.
Again, I urge you to at least read 1 Corinthians 15, pertaining to the our situation and salvation, death and resurrection. You will understand better where I'm coming from.
It does not have to be explicitly stated.
Luke 22:48
but Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
Judas wasn't betraying anybody but Jesus with his kiss.
This is definitely not Biblical or scientific. What are your sources and why do you believe this?
Actually "Son of Man" is generic: Son of mankind (anthropos). It means "human", but is used as a designation, bestowed by God.
True, but as Saviour, Jesus was concerned with saving the soul:
Matthew 16
25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. 26What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Heb 13
9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace...
Have you considered that the belief in transmigration of the soul and your consequent effort to escape the burden of karma to redeem yourself, might only weaken your faith?
You asked how hard it is to be like Jesus, to be free from our burdens:
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
If you believe this, you are already saved. And we are suffering like He suffered on the cross.
Matt 16
24Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.
Your words sound similar to those of Paul, except that you are trying to escape suffering by your own merit.
Philippians 3
10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
You need to trust Christ to do this for you. Baptism is a sign of that trust and that hope. Trust Jesus with your death. You are trying too hard to earn a life worthy of God. God has already made you worthy. That is the nature of faith. Jesus is the source of your strength, not a goal, but a gift. Jesus is God's mercy in action. Denying yourself and taking up your cross means facing suffering, persevering in faith, and resisting sin.
Isaiah 30:15
This is what the Sovereign LORD , the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it."
Matt.25
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
John 11
11After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."
12His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." 13Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, 15and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."
Then Jesus proceeded to raise Lazarus from the dead, but this is still not the resurrection. Lazarus died again, but Jesus "was raised, never to die again".
Those who have fallen asleep in Christ are those believers who have died (I'll have to look for the passage, but it exists), and are waiting for the resurrection. They are not inhabiting other bodies in the meanwhile. To each soul has been ascribed its own body, according to its nature:
1 Cor. 15
37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
If Christ had not been resurrected, those who fell asleep in Him (died while believing in Him) would have been lost. How much more would those people be lost who did not take part in Christ's resurrection and died while still in their sins (or "under the burden of their karma")?
Romans 6
4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin - 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
I hope I answered some of your other questions in the process.
Again, I urge you to at least read 1 Corinthians 15, pertaining to the our situation and salvation, death and resurrection. You will understand better where I'm coming from.
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Apples???
The German word for 'apple' is 'apfel'. Besides, there were no apples growing in the Fertile Crescent (now Iraq). So the very translation of the simple word 'apple' is incorrect! Then how could anyone believe futher mistranslations of more complicated concepts like virgin birth, immaculate conception, resurrection, and salvation???
The German word for 'apple' is 'apfel'. Besides, there were no apples growing in the Fertile Crescent (now Iraq). So the very translation of the simple word 'apple' is incorrect! Then how could anyone believe futher mistranslations of more complicated concepts like virgin birth, immaculate conception, resurrection, and salvation???
Re: Apples???
And the Afrikaans word for 'apple' is 'appel'. What has that got to do with anything? The word used in Genesis 3:6 is not apple (it's a popular misconception). It is "priy" (Strong's # 6529), meaning:
1)fruit, produce (of the ground)
2)fruit, offspring, children, progeny (of the womb)
3)fruit (of actions) (figuratively)
What Adam and Eve ate was literally 'the results of the tree', whether it was meant literally or figuratively is up to you to decide. "Apple" would have been 'tappuwach', apple/apple tree.
No matter how mysterious or complicated you find the original languages of the Bible, it does not help to insult the intelligence of those cultures by saying they could not describe events properly. If you don't agree with the translation, get a concordance, study the use of the word in its original context, and translate it yourself.
And the Afrikaans word for 'apple' is 'appel'. What has that got to do with anything? The word used in Genesis 3:6 is not apple (it's a popular misconception). It is "priy" (Strong's # 6529), meaning:
1)fruit, produce (of the ground)
2)fruit, offspring, children, progeny (of the womb)
3)fruit (of actions) (figuratively)
What Adam and Eve ate was literally 'the results of the tree', whether it was meant literally or figuratively is up to you to decide. "Apple" would have been 'tappuwach', apple/apple tree.
No matter how mysterious or complicated you find the original languages of the Bible, it does not help to insult the intelligence of those cultures by saying they could not describe events properly. If you don't agree with the translation, get a concordance, study the use of the word in its original context, and translate it yourself.