Can atheists really go to hell?
- Thread starter spuriousmonkey
- Start date
Hi Lemmink3
Yes i can see your confusion i did not right that well. The original poster put forward the possibility that if someone does not believe in God or hell then they may not be liable to go there but if someone believed in hell and did not do the will of God that they would go there. (Now i know the poster did not say this exactly. but this is the message i got)
I was saying that someone’s eternal destination is not affected by ones non - belief in it. That is to say non belief in hell does not keep you from hell. What one believes does not affect the existence of the ultimate reality for that person.
If human thoughts on justice ruled in heaven than No man would be saved and All men would go to hell. Because God is perfect and no person (no matter how good they are) is perfect. God cannot accept anything impure in eternity. That is why Jesus is so important to us. Because through Him we can be accounted as rightious by Faith not by being perfect. God has offered through Jesus a gift of forgiveness to mankind, But a gift cannot be had without it being accepted and that is our part in the deal. We must believe in Jesus as our savor/Redeemer.
All praise The Ancient Of Days
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Lemming3k said:
Yes i can see your confusion i did not right that well. The original poster put forward the possibility that if someone does not believe in God or hell then they may not be liable to go there but if someone believed in hell and did not do the will of God that they would go there. (Now i know the poster did not say this exactly. but this is the message i got)
I was saying that someone’s eternal destination is not affected by ones non - belief in it. That is to say non belief in hell does not keep you from hell. What one believes does not affect the existence of the ultimate reality for that person.
If human thoughts on justice ruled in heaven than No man would be saved and All men would go to hell. Because God is perfect and no person (no matter how good they are) is perfect. God cannot accept anything impure in eternity. That is why Jesus is so important to us. Because through Him we can be accounted as rightious by Faith not by being perfect. God has offered through Jesus a gift of forgiveness to mankind, But a gift cannot be had without it being accepted and that is our part in the deal. We must believe in Jesus as our savor/Redeemer.
All praise The Ancient Of Days
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Religion and God don't have anything in common? This is Hell we're talking about, no?
I said we'd have to first find out which is the true religion to see if an Athiest goes to Hell because not every religion says one will go to Hell. So we have to first establish if there's a Hell or not for one to go to hence the mention of following the correct religion. And God was also mentioned because some religions state that those that don't follow the correct God will go to Hell as well. So if I'm following the wrong God and there is a Hell, I'm screwed. Otherwise I'm fine and dandy.
- N
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
RosaMagika said:
Ahh, the old "which religion is the right one" question! I think this should be given a thread of its own. If there's one thing that completely puts me off religion, its this question!
I'm betting on the Sumerians/Babylonians to be right
--
I like that story
It makes sense too...you can interpret it many different ways too...my interpretation is that the prophet is saying that God is all around, in every person, people are God...people helping people, and etc.
I think if anything, hell would be where people didn't help each other in the slightest...where they took turns laughing at each other being destroyed, they just watched with utter hysteria, powerless to stop themselves from laughing and ENJOYING the destruction of another person while that person is crying out for help...and they want to help but can't...and enjoy that they can't...
That would be hell I think...and I do think that such a hell would take in people who have done terrible things like purposely hurt another for no reason other than enjoyment...
As to what happens when we die? Who knows, more importantly, who CARES? I personally have better things to do with my time than debate such nonsense on a daily basis (though it is fun to debate them every once in awhile...intelligent debate is usually worthwhile)...though I actually find it somewhat offensive that people claim the existence or non-existence of the afterlife...its.....pretentious, but meh...I can deal with being offended
Last edited:
So if you dont believe in jesus then you do go to hell, even if your a good person, thats the point im getting at, most christians(i've met or spoken to) say if you dont believe in god/jesus then you go to hell, regardless of how good a person you are.
Im not sure what your getting at, i shall reply as best i can, love is a feeling, it does not need to come from god to be felt, the love of a friend or family member comes from them, not from god, i feel love from people in my life, i feel love without god or the need for him.
, most christians(i've met or spoken to) say if you dont believe in god/jesus then you go to hell, regardless of how good a person you are.
then i think u have been talking to the wrong christians im a christian and i dont think that a person going to hell is based on whethere they belive or not i think its how that person lives there life.
then i think u have been talking to the wrong christians im a christian and i dont think that a person going to hell is based on whethere they belive or not i think its how that person lives there life.
That would make more sense, perhaps you are a better christian and the others are the usual breed of clueless christians that know very little, however i do recall a priest saying it once, perhaps its a different sect of christianity, there are plenty of them now.
C20,
To first make up for something from a previous post:
I said:
To this you replied:
And what started this train of thought was this you said:
At the time, it seemed to me that "embracing love in its eternity" and "taking the gift of eternal life" was *most obvious* to you, a thing that goes without saying.
My point is that this is not obvious to everyone.
And when you said "rejecting love means that you live in darkness": I don't reject love. Just because I don't believe in a Christian God does not mean that I reject love.
And you can say that I live in darkness, if you must. I don't think so. And most of all: Daren't you even try to judge me. You know next to nothing about me.
And for your last question:
LOVE, sweetie, LOVE.
Love, not words. Love, not eternity. Love: it is the simple everyday things of real everyday life, and not some distant abstractions.
I deeply resent the thought that I should say to you, for example, that I love you, even in a Christian way.
I ask myself: "What am I doing that I could say that I love c20?"
Well, I don't see myself *doing* anything that would justify me saying that I love you. So I don't say that I love you.
If you'd get a PM from me everyday, and we'd have lunch together at least once a week, and do stuff, and I'd never forget your birthday and make you a nice present ... yeah, then I would say that I *love* you.
As long as I am only typing this post, I am only trying to be a communicator, and a well-intended one. That's not love.
NB: I'm not trying to charm you or anything. I only used a more personalized example to get my point across better.
To first make up for something from a previous post:
I said:
To this you replied:
And what started this train of thought was this you said:
At the time, it seemed to me that "embracing love in its eternity" and "taking the gift of eternal life" was *most obvious* to you, a thing that goes without saying.
My point is that this is not obvious to everyone.
And when you said "rejecting love means that you live in darkness": I don't reject love. Just because I don't believe in a Christian God does not mean that I reject love.
And you can say that I live in darkness, if you must. I don't think so. And most of all: Daren't you even try to judge me. You know next to nothing about me.
And for your last question:
LOVE, sweetie, LOVE.
Love, not words. Love, not eternity. Love: it is the simple everyday things of real everyday life, and not some distant abstractions.
I deeply resent the thought that I should say to you, for example, that I love you, even in a Christian way.
I ask myself: "What am I doing that I could say that I love c20?"
Well, I don't see myself *doing* anything that would justify me saying that I love you. So I don't say that I love you.
If you'd get a PM from me everyday, and we'd have lunch together at least once a week, and do stuff, and I'd never forget your birthday and make you a nice present ... yeah, then I would say that I *love* you.
As long as I am only typing this post, I am only trying to be a communicator, and a well-intended one. That's not love.
NB: I'm not trying to charm you or anything.
I only used a more personalized example to get my point across better.u've got a point and thanx but on the other hand i dont associate myself with a specific group of christian. I belive what I belive and I make sense of what I understant to make sense regardless of what a priest may tell me, because you have to undestand he is just as human as the rest of us no more no less.
Lemming3k said:
You mean those 'clueless christians' who read the Bible, the basis for their own faith?
Belief in salvation by faith in Jesus alone is one of the fundamentals of Christianity for many (probably more than half) Christians. What do you mean by 'better' Christian; a better person, or a person who better adheres to Christianity? If we're talking about the latter, then the better Christian is the one who takes what the Bible says literally.
I do think that this thread will never produce an answer. Since the idea of heaven and hell was forged by religious people it is ,in my opinion, not possible to transfer this concept and fit it on atheist, or other beliefs.
They just do not fit each other. An atheist obviously cannot go to the heaven created by christians.
Anyway, I suppose we might find the answer at the end of our road.
They just do not fit each other. An atheist obviously cannot go to the heaven created by christians.
Anyway, I suppose we might find the answer at the end of our road.
I meant its a better idea that good people go to heaven and bad to hell than just anyone who doesnt believe goin to hell, most christians no longer take the bible literally, in a way perhaps this makes them all bad christians, in a way it makes them more sensible, thats merely what i was getting at, i consider a better christian(or at least a tolerable one) one who has evolved from believing the whole bible without question to one that actually preaches the good stuff, it of course can be seen two ways.
Lemming3k said:
That might be a better idea (although still a morally corrupt one), but this isn't about better ideas. It's about Christianity.
Also, you are probably incorrect about most Christians: most Christians *do* believe that the Bible is literally, word for word, true.
South Star
All atheists before the time of Christ went to hell without any hope of salvation whatsoever. Native Americans, Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians.. whatever.. as long as they were not of God's covenant, they were condemned for being unholy.
May the Father of lights be praised.
Everyone including adam and eve up until jesus "died on the cross" would've gone to hell- christians included. And sending people to hell because they weren't told about something when they were alive doesn't seem like something the "Father of light" would do.
In fact, I take this as proof that there cannot be a god or religion that is true, because they only develop over time, they aren't innate in human beings. So therefore no-one can truly know god because they aren't born with a knowledge of god. We are only told about it. It is man made.
As for going to hell. It probably wouldn't be so bad. An eternity of pain would mean that you would get used to it. An eternity in heaven would see the highest suicide rate ever- minding numbing boredom for eternity with no reason to exist; nothing to measure how we live our lives (i.e. pain or love); sex would be nothing because it's a biological mechanism; and on and painfully on.
Besides, how can christians know what heaven is like. They can't. I think they have it entirely wrong. The bible can't be relied upon as a source of truth- it contradicts itself to many times to make any clear statement about what i represents. That pretty much applies across the board I think.
The only thing worth living is life. Everything else is a hamburger once you've tasted the steak.
All atheists before the time of Christ went to hell without any hope of salvation whatsoever. Native Americans, Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians.. whatever.. as long as they were not of God's covenant, they were condemned for being unholy.
May the Father of lights be praised.
Everyone including adam and eve up until jesus "died on the cross" would've gone to hell- christians included. And sending people to hell because they weren't told about something when they were alive doesn't seem like something the "Father of light" would do.
In fact, I take this as proof that there cannot be a god or religion that is true, because they only develop over time, they aren't innate in human beings. So therefore no-one can truly know god because they aren't born with a knowledge of god. We are only told about it. It is man made.
As for going to hell. It probably wouldn't be so bad. An eternity of pain would mean that you would get used to it. An eternity in heaven would see the highest suicide rate ever- minding numbing boredom for eternity with no reason to exist; nothing to measure how we live our lives (i.e. pain or love); sex would be nothing because it's a biological mechanism; and on and painfully on.
Besides, how can christians know what heaven is like. They can't. I think they have it entirely wrong. The bible can't be relied upon as a source of truth- it contradicts itself to many times to make any clear statement about what i represents. That pretty much applies across the board I think.
The only thing worth living is life. Everything else is a hamburger once you've tasted the steak.
TheERK said:
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors.
They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in
her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is,
how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend
of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can
you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don.t agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room
here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes
me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester
blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really
necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town
together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn.t we just burn them to
death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with
their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident
you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is
eternal and unchanging.
Taken from an unknown source. This was originally a letter to Dr. Laura regarding the legalistic views dealing with homosexual marriage, but it also fits here perfectly.
I guess we all should follow Biblical law down to the T :bugeye:
It may aim at the prophets of WES