Can atheists really go to hell?

RosaMagika said:
As far as I understand Christianity, whatever I do, is simply sin and wrong, as I have not converted to Christianity.
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Conversion to Christianity will not take away sin. Only Christ does that, and only by loving can we have part in Christ. We are all sinners, and it is sin that is condemned.
 
Your claim to knowing love is the same as our claim to knowing God - based on faith. You experience it, you live it, you feel it. But have you ever tried to provide scientific evidence for love?
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So not only can we not scientifically prove love, we cannot prove god either, so how do you plan on proving god is love? You ask for faith on my part, i place my faith in love and human kindness, not a god, i wouldnt tell you where to place your faith it is up to you to decide what suits you best. By the way as for scientific evidence if you mean love as in attraction love their are some things called pheromones, if you mean human kindness love then the idea is along similar lines but with different chemicals, if all kinds of love are proved by science will your beliefs change?
Love rights all wrongs" and "love makes the world go round" and so on are expressions of that faith. There is no evidence that love does anything that evolution hasn't achieved without it. Or no "extra-human" evidence, I should say.
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I dont take things that far, but it does make things feel better(though of course not perfect).
You are ultimately responsible for loving, and when you cause pain, it is you who causes it, not God.
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This is why i do not attribute love or pain to god, if he exists he gave us the ability to feel and create pain, a loving god in my opinion would have no need to create these. I agree with this part of your post it is down to an individual.
Good, so you agree with my conclusion above. That's what is called obedience to God.
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I agree if you remove the existance of god from the equation, we are responsible, we create love and pain, i dont attribute anything to god.
That's what is called obedience to God. You are doing the work, but rejecting the One who gave the order
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Sorry i dont take orders.
We can only give what we have received
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Chicken and the egg springs to mind, somebody has to have given it first to recieve if before they can give it...and the circle continues.
How do you decide who doesn't need love? Do they hae to beg you for it before you give it - do they have to look "needy" first? Is that really love?
Who is your neigbour, Samaritan? Who deserves your love?
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Again you are hung up on christian values of love and who 'needs' or 'deserves' love and asking me to answer based on your ideals. The value i speak of is kindness and the desire to help others, who 'needs' what is my opinion nothing more, if you want an exact answer you have to ask the individual in question what they 'need' or want, they dont have to beg me for anything, if they wish for help they only need to ask for it and if i am able to i will, and just because they can ask doesnt mean i wont offer. Also how do you decide who 'needs' gods love? How does god decide?
Love wasn't invented by you, yet you say it's yours to give to whom you please
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My love is mine to give to whom i please, do you need to invent love to be able to claim you can feel it, understand it, or experience it? If so you cannot claim to love either as you didnt invent it.
What about people who work at orphanages, emergency services, welfare organizations, nature conservation. Don't they just assume people need help?
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If nobody needed help the organizations wouldnt exist, they are there to offer help if its needed.
Or that you don't need God in order to breathe? True, but is "breathing" all there is to life?
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I dont need god to breathe, i dont need him to love, to hate, to feel pain or joy.
 
Lemming3k said:
This is why i do not attribute love or pain to god, if he exists he gave us the ability to feel and create pain, a loving god in my opinion would have no need to create these.
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He would in your opinion not create at all. Why should God be defined by your opinion? Our abilities to feel loss and pain are essential to our mental and physical survival. If you call someone insensitive, unfeeling and unemotional - is that a compliment? The abilities to feel, have empathy, show emotion and react to them, are all ingredients of love. That's what makes us human in the first place. The ability to love in spite of these things is what gives it power over them.

I dont need god to breathe, i dont need him to love, to hate, to feel pain or joy.
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That is what makes hell such a harsh place: if your existence did originate with God, and is in fact bound to Him, then imagine what an eternal unrealized need would be like. You find yourself, alive, on a planet that encourages life, breathing and loving, and you take it all for granted. To find yourself "alive" without any of those things, just the realization that they were all provided by God and you used them as if they were your own.

If God gives you over to them, you're at their mercy, not His - and nature shows very little mercy. Why complain about hell if you've swallowed it whole?
 
Jenyar,


You know what?
I think I can do certain things "in practice", but I could never explain the "theory" behind them. But just because I cannot explain the "theory" behind them doesn't mean that I am taking those things for granted.

I think our communication is bound to fail because of this -- you have an elaborate "theory", I don't.

I cannot come up with any references other than my own, you can.
All I have to offer is my heart -- but this is not good enough for you.

So be it. I'm out of this.
 
That is what makes hell such a harsh place: if your existence did originate with God, and is in fact bound to Him, then imagine what an eternal unrealized need would be like. You find yourself, alive, on a planet that encourages life, breathing and loving, and you take it all for granted. To find yourself "alive" without any of those things, just the realization that they were all provided by God and you used them as if they were your own.
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That is of course an IF, and if none were provided by god, then i will be glad i lived my life to the full.
If God gives you over to them, you're at their mercy, not His - and nature shows very little mercy. Why complain about hell if you've swallowed it whole?
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Who complained? And i feel good, hell doesnt enter my mind, the whole concept of hell was devised so people fear death and seek salvation, i dont fear death, i dont seek salvation.
Also why would a compassionate god hand people over to the mercy of someone else? Would he not feel guilty or responsible?
 
I was reading a post on this thread (forget which one, doesn't seem all that important right now) and it said something about everything you do in life being pointless because you just cease to exist anyway.
I don't know why, but this got me thinking about something.
How do we know that the world didn't just pop into existance the moment you were born, with all its happenings and everybody in it already there,
And that all will cease to exist when you die?

If that is true, then our existance is truly pointless; it means we are all just some bit player in a great play thats in its final act.

If its not true, then we have to worry about eternal bliss or punishment at the whim of some great omnipotent being, that or we all just rot in the ground.

The truth is, its irrelevent.
We all just have to live life to its fullest the split second we are here. If we all end up in Hell, then so be it. If we get eternal bliss, then thats f*cking great! And if we rot in the ground, or cease to exist, then whatever. I will be secure in the knowledge that my life wasn't wasted away on spreading an irrelevent system of beliefs.
 
"How do we know that the world didn't just pop into existance the moment you were born, with all its happenings and everybody in it already there"

without looking behind you, can you prove that any of the universe besides your computer (and anything else that you can see) exists???
 
Can I say this, as an atheist? I respect everyone's right to have any belief of their choice, whatever the religion or lack of BUT I do not respect the right of people to force, or attempt to force, that belief on me. If your a devout Christian. Moslem, Hindu, Sikh or whatever, fine by me, but keep it to yourself. Christians of a certain ilk seem hell bent (deliberate pun) on forcing it upon others by persistent quotations from a book that only they believe in. Please, we don't need it. The quotations only go to reinforce my own belief that you cannot argue a point without it.
 
For most extents and purposes, the universe did come into being at the same you did, and it'll die when you do.

EDIT: Backed off an untenable position.
 
alain said:
"How do we know that the world didn't just pop into existance the moment you were born, with all its happenings and everybody in it already there"

without looking behind you, can you prove that any of the universe besides your computer (and anything else that you can see) exists???
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Man...
I didn't even realy mean it like that, but you raise a good point with that.
Yay! more stuff to think about when I have nothing better to do! :D
 
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