Bush Approves First Military Execution In 50 Years

Vkothii said:
What order?
The one about following the rules in the stupid list, you mean?
So, it isn't up to any soldiers then. Soldiers don't have any responsibility for discipline, it's something the CO takes care of?
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Soldiers have to be disciplined according to the specifications of the Army and the CO.
They obey orders. That's it.

So why, if I'm a soldier, should I even look at the stupid list, if it's your job? Or listen to anything that has to do with this "discipline" thingamy, if I don't have to? What is it again?
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You do have to, but it's the CO's job to make sure you're disciplined according to his specifications. You don't decide WHAT discipline is, he does.

Say I learned all about it before you show up and hand out your list, ordering that it must be obeyed.

So then the list instructs me, a well-trained and highly disciplined military man, to shoot anyone who is doing "stuff like that", even if it doesn't look like anything much, I'd say it gives a soldier a fair bit of leeway.
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You don't shoot CO's for giving orders. That's their job

So I shoot you, accordingly, as your list has instructed me, since I have to follow orders. Or I see that such a list is in fact a serious threat to overall discipline which you and other officers have ordered me to maintain; again I have to shoot you, there is no choice in the matter, orders must be obeyed to maintain discipline.

P.S. I can keep going around this roundabout all day, if that's your kick.
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You don't understand, do you? Discipline must be maintained according to the specifications of the CO.

As an enlisted man you don't give your opinion and you don't think, you obey.
 
Norsefire said:
...it's the CO's job to make sure you're disciplined according to his specifications.You don't decide WHAT discipline is, he does.
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That actually looks kind of sensible, but it's a steaming pile.

Officers in a disciplined army simply DO NOT make up rules "according to his specifications". A trained soldier gets disciplined by plenty of other shit that has nothing to do with their CO.
As an enlisted man you don't give your opinion and you don't think, you obey.
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A soldier who doesn't think is NOT a soldier. A moron maybe, but not a soldier.
A CO who said something like that to me, would be my primary target from that point on.
Any opportunity to rid the disciplined army I'm in of such a feeble excuse for an officer would be taken, accordingly.
 
Not if I show the tribunal the "stupid list", though.
I imagine a disciplined and well-trained trio of ranking officers, would agree that their army is in better shape, now that the idiot has been removed from the ranks.
 
He thought he was a well-disciplined officer, who could invent an arbitrary list of rules for discipline.

But was actually a moron, who deserved to be shot summarily (for impersonating an officer).
 
S.A.M. said:
Ahahhaha Al Qaeda in Iraq? You mean ex-Sunni insurgents now Awakening?

Americans are so funny. They pay people to manufacture news and then ask for evidence. :D

http://www.gregpalast.com/bushs-fake-sheik-whacked-the-surge-and-the-al-qaeda-bunny/
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You know... a lot of Arms Dealers are staying rich and getting richer these days.

What if American based Arms Dealers supplied Al Qaeda AND American soldiers?

Treason or business? Dirty, either way.

I recall that in WWII Arms Dealers supplied both sides, and banks gave loans to both sides as well. Bastards!
 
Not at all, they are rational business people, with an eye on the bottom-line.

It's in their interests to drum up as much trade as possible - the more the merrier.

They can whistle a nice tune at the military funerals, and so on, or at least laugh all the way to somewhere or other.
 
Orleander said:
Why did the president have to approve it? Is he the military's version of the Supreme Court?
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I don't know how many british here will disagree, but Bush has more power than any british prime minister. The americans presidents' voice is heard more soundly than that of any prime minister we have here.
 
Vkothii said:
He thought he was a well-disciplined officer, who could invent an arbitrary list of rules for discipline.

But was actually a moron, who deserved to be shot summarily (for impersonating an officer).
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That's your fucking opinion. You can't decide who's a moron, HE can. He's the CO. You don't challenge him.

Seriously, you need to learn about military organization. I'm sure there have been times where a lower rank officer or enlisted man may not think the CO's order is the best choice, but that doesn't matter.

Follow your orders. Simple as that.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
Because, I have my belief's and I hold them sacred, and there is no way that I can become of Jewish Blood.

They are a founding force for my religious belief, the Old Testament, the Torah, but I am of the New Testament, salvation by Grace and Belief in Jesus as my intercessor between my sins and God.

But I have great respect for the Jew's and Israelis, they have been put in a horrible position by act of commission, and history, and they have survived and prospered.
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I'm wondering if you don't have some Jewish "Blood" aka DNA material in there? My grandmother on my mothers side did an extensive family tree and low and behold if we go back all the way to Germany there is a maternal great great great grandmother that was Jewish and (for me) and a maternal decedent all the way through my Catholic grandmother to me. I guess that means I am "chosen blood" in your religion :D

While my ancestry is almost entirely Germanic (or as I like to say Dutch ...) there's also Irish, Italian, French, Greek, Middle Eastern and if I have my way, soon (say in a year or so) there will be some Japanese "Shinto/Buddhist" Blood mixed in there .. which means there is Mongolian/Chinese/Tibetan/Korean Jewish DNA blood and THAT's just from ME :)

Which got me to thinking . . . . . am I a chose person in your religion? There MUST be some (a few strands of) maternal "Jewish" mitochondiral DNA in there somewhere. Physically I'd think so given that there was a maternal decendant (I guess that will stop with me) Maybe I'm the LAST of my family to be YOUR choosen people? Well? Am I DO I get any $money$ out of this???


(Actually, if we go back far enough there's some maternal Ethiopian DNA is every single one of us. - Maybe they should be the "chosen ones")

Are blond hair, blue eyed Germans the chose people? One could say, an Ayrian race.. haaa! Just kidding :)

I suppose I'm trying to make two - four points
1) You probably do have some "Jewish" blood in your genetic makeup give that 10% of the Roman world were converts at one time.
2) We all share the same DNA source
3) There is no such thing as a race of people - as in a pure blood group (I'm not even sure what that means if anything). There are Chinese "looking" Jews, Indian "looking" Jews, African "looking" Jews, Germanic "looking" Jews, Phoenician "looking" Jews, Arab "looking" Jews, Italian "looking" Jews, etc.... you get the point. Just what DNA is needed to be "Jewish Blood" in your book? I mean, hell, most Jews I know are blond and from Europe or their Parents were Russian.
4) It is possible for you to convert if you would like to.


If you did convert, and yes I know you wouldn't, but IF you did, I'd like to see how Orthodox Jews treated you and then I'd like to know what you think of "Blood Jews" and this whole nonsense after perhaps being prejudiced against. Now THAT could be interesting. Yes, too bad all die hard Israel supporters weren't forced to live as a Jewish convert in an Orthdox part of Israel - perhaps then they'd realize that this "Blood" Jew bull is a left over from tribal bullshit that perhaps had a benefit 5000 years ago but is decisive in the new Global world of Polytheist Hindu Indian or Shinto Japanese and Buddhist Koreans or Thai and etc....

SO, where one could say it's admirable that Jewish people have been able to segregate themselves for 2300 years from the mainstream of the societies they have lived in - I personally find it wrong minded and a through back to the mindset of when we were still near a Monkey stage of social development.

Well, that's my take anyway,
Michael
 
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Norsefucker said:
Seriously, you need to learn about military organization.
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I'd say someone who has the idea they can hand out orders and instructions that they dream up on the fly, is the one who needs to learn about military organisation, what discipline is and how it works.

If you claimed to be an officer in the army, I wouldn't believe you, after reading the bullshit you've posted.
If I was a soldier, I wouldn't think twice about saving the army I'm in, and the discipline it needs, from a complete idiot (possibly a total fuckwit) who thinks he's an officer, by shooting the dude, uniform or not.

Since this moron has given me a list (of invented disciplinary rules), that should cover it; I just point to any one of the items on the list, or the list itself.
You can't decide who's a moron, HE can. He's the CO. You don't challenge him.
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He already has decided. He is the moron.
A soldier in any army I've ever heard of, is allowed to challenge an order.
You haven't ever been in an army, or read a military manual, have you?
 
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Norsefire said:
It is not up to you to decide what helps maintain discipline. It's up to the CO
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Ultimately, yes. But at the same time, a good officer will respect the opinions of his soldiers and incorporate them into his decision process. Likewise, a good soldier will offer constructive criticism and advice to their senior leadership. An officer or senior NCO who fails to listen to his soldiers will not have their confidence or respect, and integrity of the chain of command (or lack thereof) weighs heavily on discipline and morale.
 
Echo3Romeo said:
Ultimately, yes. But at the same time, a good officer will respect the opinions of his soldiers and incorporate them into his decision process. Likewise, a good soldier will offer constructive criticism and advice to their senior leadership. An officer or senior NCO who fails to listen to his soldiers will not have their confidence or respect, and integrity of the chain of command (or lack thereof) weighs heavily on discipline and morale.
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Yes, but there's a difference between constructive criticism and outright refusal to obey an order.
Vkothii said:
I'd say someone who has the idea they can hand out orders and instructions that they dream up on the fly, is the one who needs to learn about military organisation, what discipline is and how it works.
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He doesn't dream them up on the fly. Ultimately even the CO has to adhere to the principles of the Army
 
Norsefire said:
Yes, but there's a difference between constructive criticism and outright refusal to obey an order.
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Right, but a good CO will invariably end up needing to make a judgement call where he is more lenient with his soldiers in enforcement of directives coming down the chain of command. Sometimes the alternative would result in enough damage to morale and discipline to be a significant hazard to the mission. The mission always takes priority and it is the CO's job to always mind its demands foremost.
 
I agree, but I also believe that discipline is necessary. That the soldiers know when and how to criticize their office, etc

Have you watched the movie "Glory"? Major Shaw disciplined his men even though many were his friends or etc

Everyone thought he was being too hard, but he wasn't. He was doing what was necessary.
 
Yeah, that is a great movie and good example of what I'm talking about. He was a hardass with his men without being a heel-clicking yes man to his superiors.
 
Ultimately even the CO has to adhere to the principles of the Army
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No shit Einstein?
So if his CO or the general orders him not to make up stupid orders (or maybe one of the more disciplined rank will seriously consider executing him for impersonating an officer and a gentleman), you think he should obey, huh?
 
He should but it's up to the CO to decide what "stupid orders" are, ultimately up to the secretary of defense

Not the private
 
Complete crap, utter bullshit.

I think they should shoot you when you turn up at the recruiting centre, dude.
 
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