Bush Approves First Military Execution In 50 Years

Holdfire! said:
I can't order you to just "shoot someone". Not everyone is a military target.
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I guess not, but you would still be my preferred choice for "aiming in" or checking that my gun is in good working condition. My "default" military target.

If I use it as it was designed, that is, by pointing it at someone, and pulling on the trigger.
I'd test it on you, for sure, if you told me you were my commanding officer, say.
 
I would be able to argue military justification of course, given the following military guidelines for popping a cap in some military dude's ass:

desertion
treason
insubordinance
being a traitor
stuff like that

The last option appears to give me plenty of room to argue justification. I could claim that an officer who proclaims such guidelines deserves to be shot, for being such a moron.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
Well said, Justice served.
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Buffalo Roam, not to completely side track here, but, in some other thread you mentioned that someone thought you were Jewish and you said that although you are not you would take that as a great compliment? Is that correct?

It got me to thinking, so why not convert to Judaism?

So?
MII
 
Vkothii said:
I guess not, but you would still be my preferred choice for "aiming in" or checking that my gun is in good working condition. My "default" military target.

If I use it as it was designed, that is, by pointing it at someone, and pulling on the trigger.
I'd test it on you, for sure, if you told me you were my commanding officer, say.
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Why? What have I done to you?


Besides you can't. If I am your commanding officer, you listen to me, not the other way around.
 
Norsefire said:
If I am your commanding officer, you listen to me, not the other way around.
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Yes, in the military I listen to you, if you're my CO as you say.
Then I shoot you in the ass, so I don't have to listen to you (because now you're in hospital, and the doctors and nurses will have to). Or I could aim for your ass, but hit something else, maybe, so the doctors and nurses are spared the ordeal.

All I need to do then is claim that you were guilty of "stuff like that", surely. I just follow the rules of thumb here (or should that be the rules of finger)?
 
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What's your point by saying all this? Militaries can't function without rigid order and discipline.
 
NF said:
Militaries can't function without rigid order and discipline.
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You're starting to get it.

A disciplined soldier would judge that a CO who gives out "rules of engagement" for discipline, like the list you posted, would have to be shot to maintain discipline.
 
Vkothii said:
You're starting to get it.

A disciplined soldier would judge that a CO who gives out "rules of engagement" for discipline, like the list you posted, would have to be shot to maintain discipline.
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Why is that?
 
Why isn't it, shouldn't you be asking?

My CO tells me that discipline is absolutely essential, and must be maintained, then gives me that list; I read it and determine that the person who believes that it will maintain discipline, is a threat to the required discipline I'm supposed to ensure is maintained. Therefore I should shoot that person, CO, general, president, King. whoever.

Such a list could not possibly ensure discipline, which I then demonstrate effectively, by shooting the idiot who dreamed it up.
 
So, if the CO tells a soldier that discipline must be maintained, who is he talking to, himself?

Every disciplined soldier should therefore ignore every word the CO has to say about discipline, then?
Yeah, that would work pretty well.
 
Vkothii said:
So, if the CO tells a soldier that discipline must be maintained, who is he talking to, himself?

Every disciplined soldier should therefore ignore every word the CO has to say about discipline, then?
Yeah, that would work pretty well.
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The soldier would then follow the order. It is up to the CO to see that discipline is maintained, according to his specifications
 
Nf said:
The soldier would then follow the order.
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What order?
The one about following the rules in the stupid list, you mean?
Nf said:
It is up to the CO to see that discipline is maintained, according to his specifications
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So, it isn't up to any soldiers then. Soldiers don't have any responsibility for discipline, it's something the CO takes care of?

So why, if I'm a soldier, should I even look at the stupid list, if it's your job? Or listen to anything that has to do with this "discipline" thingamy, if I don't have to? What is it again?

Say I learned all about it before you show up and hand out your list, ordering that it must be obeyed.

So then the list instructs me, a well-trained and highly disciplined military man, to shoot anyone who is doing "stuff like that", even if it doesn't look like anything much, I'd say it gives a soldier a fair bit of leeway.

So I shoot you, accordingly, as your list has instructed me, since I have to follow orders. Or I see that such a list is in fact a serious threat to overall discipline which you and other officers have ordered me to maintain; again I have to shoot you, there is no choice in the matter, orders must be obeyed to maintain discipline.

P.S. I can keep going around this roundabout all day, if that's your kick.
 
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The issue is Capitol Punishment ordered by the state. The fact that the sentenced person was a soldier is not relevant, as far as I can see.

We have unbiased proof of how wrong the state can be in determining someone's guilt in a murder trial. This proof exists and will not disappear even if this soldier did indeed commit the murders he was tried for. The state has been mistaken so often that we simply can't allow them to execute anyone, just based on how badly they investigate some crimes.

End of story.

I'd go on to say it immoral to execute a person for murder but that's another issue.
 
Michael said:
Buffalo Roam, not to completely side track here, but, in some other thread you mentioned that someone thought you were Jewish and you said that although you are not you would take that as a great compliment? Is that correct?

It got me to thinking, so why not convert to Judaism?

So?
MII
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Because, I have my belief's and I hold them sacred, and there is no way that I can become of Jewish Blood.

They are a founding force for my religious belief, the Old Testament, the Torah, but I am of the New Testament, salvation by Grace and Belief in Jesus as my intercessor between my sins and God.

But I have great respect for the Jew's and Israelis, they have been put in a horrible position by act of commission, and history, and they have survived and prospered.
 
Raven said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080729/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_military_execution
WASHINGTON - President Bush on Monday approved the execution of an Army private, the first time in over a half-century that a president has affirmed a death sentence for a member of the U.S. military.

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With his signature from the Oval Office, Bush said yes to the military's request to execute Ronald A. Gray, the White House confirmed. Gray had had been convicted in connection with a spree of four murders and eight rapes in the Fayetteville, N.C., area over eight months in the late 1980s while stationed at Fort Bragg.
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Whilst i agree this man done terrible things, but i am wavering at the morality of putting these crimes down to a single man. I bet a great population of the milatary rape women and sometimes even men in these war zones. I think that's a general point in this thread, and shouldn't be dismissed easily.

Bush is an idiot though. Sooner he is out of power, the better for America.
 
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