"Book of Mormon" plagiarism?

W

WildBlueYonder

Guest
Hey, I was just minding my business, reading my copy of the Book of Mormon, when I found a statement in 3 Nephi 12:18, that reminded me of something that Jesus said, about not 'one jot nor tittle' being changed in the Law until it was fulfilled. So I looked for the passage & lo & behold, I found that Joe Smith copied almost all of Matthew Chapter 5 word for word from the King James English, check it out here:
Bible:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat005.html#18
BoM:
http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/relg/bookofmormon/TheBookofMormon11-3Nephi/chap13.html

only diff, seems to be verses 1, 2, 29, 30, 46 & 47 (& 47 is copied from another section)

isn't that called plagiarism?
 
The whole thing is a shameless imitation of the king james style, I'm not surprised that he would copy whole passages. Maybe he thought it would give the BoM more credibility.
 
For that matter, there's a significant amount of plagerism in the Christian texts, particularly among the Pentateuch books. The Noachian Flood myth in Genesis is nearly a word for word copy of previous myths and stories such as Gilgamesh and The Deluge of earlier cultures.
 
There cannot be plagiarism of the bible. Anybody or institution can create their own versions of translating biblical text. Any institution can publish the bible, and alter it in anyway with their own doctrine. Catholics have their own version of the holy bible. So do jehovaswitness and moronms.
 
The Book of Mormon also quotes other scriptural passages from the Bible.

Can't God quote Himself? If He has a message for the Jews, wouldn't it stand to reason that He has the same message for the Nephites...and for us? I see no reason why God can't repeat Himself, especially if that is the only way to give the Nephites the message He gave the Jews.

Truth doesn't change with geography or time period.
 
The New Testament must be plagiarizing the Old Testament then since the New Testament includes passages from the Old Testament.
 
Marlin said:
The Book of Mormon also quotes other scriptural passages from the Bible.
Can't God quote Himself? If He has a message for ... Truth doesn't change with geography or time period.
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quote Himself? the BoM is a fictionalized docu-drama, it is not another testament but a pre-sci-fi novel using KJV-type english to give it a millieu of authenticity

nice try
 
Brutus1964 said:
The New Testament must be plagiarizing the Old Testament then since the New Testament includes passages from the Old Testament.
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the NT states that the OT is the foundation of Christianity, that all the prophecies that foretold Jesus where there, it was the basis of instruction, correction & inspiration

the BoM is the "bible of the left-hand", that the LDS, like all true cults always has; giving lip-service to the Bible, while always holding the left-hand texts up higher.
tell us, what text forms the basis of your core beliefs? do you quote the Bible only in defence of the BoM or do you use extra-biblical sources?
 
Marlin said:
Truth doesn't change with geography or time period.
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The written word as it appears in the king james version of the bible did not EXIST until centuries after the book of Mormon was supposedly put in the ground.
 
Halcyon said:
The written word as it appears in the king james version of the bible did not EXIST until centuries after the book of Mormon was supposedly put in the ground.
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The theory has been advanced that it's possible, even probable, that Joseph Smith consulted the King James version of the Bible when he encountered passages in the Book of Mormon that quoted it, and then used the same language of the KJV in the translation.

Whether or not this theory is true or false, however, I think that God can say the same thing twice to different nations.

Personally, I believe that when the KJV was quoted, Joseph Smith decided to use KJV language (in most cases). But that's JMHO.
 
Marlin said:
The theory has been advanced that it's possible, even probable, that Joseph Smith consulted the King James version of the Bible when he encountered passages in the Book of Mormon that quoted it, and then used the same language of the KJV in the translation.

Whether or not this theory is true or false, however, I think that God can say the same thing twice to different nations.

Personally, I believe that when the KJV was quoted, Joseph Smith decided to use KJV language (in most cases). But that's JMHO.
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don't you get headaches trying to rationalize every weakness in BoM, if it was any other book or religious text would you try so hard? of course you would, but this time with a microscope to tear it apart, dissect it, find its flaws, errors in logic

be honest with yourself, if not with us, do you really believe what you say or do you need to believe it, so that you won't "lose' your testimony?
 
The bible itself, whichever version, is far from a "perfect" document. It contradicts itself in many places, contains inaccuracies and mistranslations of older documents.

This shouldn't be a problem for believers, except for fundamentalists, who believe that the bible is literally true in every word.
 
[ignore Randolfo off]

I get headaches from people like you who think they must tear down others' religious beliefs. And I am being quite honest when I say that I believe that the Book of Mormon is 100% true and authentic.

[/ignore Randolfo on]
 
Marlin said:
[ignore Randolfo off]

I get headaches from people like you who think they must tear down others' religious beliefs.
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because your religious beliefs tear apart my history, a history that though bloody, is thoroughly Mexican, totally real, there is no make-believe statements, peoples, cultures, you dig in the ground in Mexico, you get Mexican relics, bones, art, ruins, etc...
The BoM is not proven by any, any, let me repeat, ANY shred of evidence. all the himming & hawing won't convince me, pull out the BoM treasures, bones, relics, where are they? can't find them? could it be they don't exist? funny, museums all over the world have Mexican history in all its glory, but not one item of BoM provenance, why is that?
And I am being quite honest when I say that I believe that the Book of Mormon is 100% true and authentic.
[/ignore Randolfo on]
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& how could that be? 100% true? authentic? you have proof, right? I mean, you're not taking this religio-docu-dramatic novel at face value, are you? that is so rich; I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn, only one owner, a revenue maker & very scenic views. Cheap, PM me for details ;)
 
Randolfo, my testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is a spiritual one, a witness gained from God within my heart and mind after years of reading and studying said book. I applied Moroni's Promise (Moroni 10:3-5) and was answered with assurances that the BoM is true. It wasn't just a "warm fuzzy," though. It's also because I find Mormonism to be extremely and supremely logical. The glory of God is indeed intelligence, and His Church echoes this very much.
 
Marlin said:
Randolfo, my testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is a spiritual one, a witness gained from God within my heart and mind after years of reading and studying said book. I applied Moroni's Promise (Moroni 10:3-5) and was answered with assurances that the BoM is true.
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BTW, you didn't answer these questions,
WildBlueYonder said:
a history that though bloody, is thoroughly Mexican, totally real, there is no make-believe statements, peoples, cultures, you dig in the ground in Mexico, you get Mexican relics, bones, art, ruins, etc...
The BoM is not proven by any, any, let me repeat, ANY shred of evidence. all the himming & hawing won't convince me, pull out the BoM treasures, bones, relics, where are they? can't find them? could it be they don't exist? funny, museums all over the world have Mexican history in all its glory, but not one item of BoM provenance, why is that?
Click to expand...
hmmmm?
 
WildBlueYonder said:
BTW, you didn't answer these questions,

Originally Posted by WildBlueYonder
a history that though bloody, is thoroughly Mexican, totally real, there is no make-believe statements, peoples, cultures, you dig in the ground in Mexico, you get Mexican relics, bones, art, ruins, etc...
The BoM is not proven by any, any, let me repeat, ANY shred of evidence. all the himming & hawing won't convince me, pull out the BoM treasures, bones, relics, where are they? can't find them? could it be they don't exist? funny, museums all over the world have Mexican history in all its glory, but not one item of BoM provenance, why is that?
Click to expand...

hmmmm?
Click to expand...

WBY, I've told you that the convincing evidence that the Book of Mormon is true, for me at least, has been an internal, spiritual one. The Holy Spirit told me that it is true. You are on the right track when you say that external evidences are not adequate to prove the veracity of the Book of Mormon. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things. But the fact that God told me how to get a testimony of the truth, and then gave me one when I followed His instructions, is reason enough for me to believe.
 
WildBlueYonder said:
Hey, I was just minding my business, reading my copy of the Book of Mormon, when I found a statement in 3 Nephi 12:18, that reminded me of something that Jesus said, about not 'one jot nor tittle' being changed in the Law until it was fulfilled. So I looked for the passage & lo & behold, I found that Joe Smith copied almost all of Matthew Chapter 5 word for word from the King James English, check it out here:
Bible:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat005.html#18
BoM:
http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/relg/bookofmormon/TheBookofMormon11-3Nephi/chap13.html

only diff, seems to be verses 1, 2, 29, 30, 46 & 47 (& 47 is copied from another section)

isn't that called plagiarism?
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He copied a lot of Isaiah to. The funny thing is that when he "translated" parts of the bible to correct the "errors in translation" he made changes to such sections that appear in the Book of Mormon as well, but appear in it as the King James version, not the Joseph Smith translation.
I also find it odd that the Mormons standard is to use the KJV, not the JST. Maybe there is an intent to divert attention from that very fact.
 
Trilairian said:
I also find it odd that the Mormons standard is to use the KJV, not the JST. Maybe there is an intent to divert attention from that very fact.
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No there isn't.

Joseph Smith was martyred by a mob before he could finish the JST. We Mormons still use the JST in the footnotes and appendix of our official KJV Bibles, but as the JST was not completed and to maintain compatibility with other religions, the KJV remains the official version.
 
Tell me about the war between J.S. and the Freemasons.

That has to be the most interesting story of any cult in North America.

How the masons were angry that Smith stole their secret handshakes and satanic rituals.
 
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