Black Americans should be pissed!

[Persol]

Not really, racism is not bred by the government, so what can the government do that its not doing already?

Nondiscrimination laws, at least where governmment funding is involved (which it is involved almost everywhere).

How can we change racism? We all know it is never going to go away…

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think that racism can be knocked down to a level where it is laughable when someone exhibits it. It depends on why someone is racist to start with. I think that once again it's because of who their parents happen to be (and what they say).. and that education programs could help... but that's for another thread,

But the problem is that the US government has not apologized for its treatment of blacks (at least to my knowledge) so the wound is still not healed.

To me this seems fairly hollow. The majority of recent leaders have stated that what happened was wrong. Bush recently called slavery "one of the greatest crimes of history". Currently blacks and other minorities get special treatment by the goverment. Everybody who seems to be asking for an 'apology' seems to want a bill to be passed by congress 'officially' condeming slavery. It would be a bill that nobody would actually vote against (even if they wanted to), hence being empty.

But you forget about the psychological effects of living in a sub-segment of society that historically been marginalized and they were promised compensation and did not receive it. They have a legitimate beef…

Today's blacks were promised nothing... and today's whites did no promising. I'll agree with you on the 'psychological effects of living in a sub-segment of society'... but telling them that they 'should be pissed' only reinforcces the psychological effects.

But do any of those have the truly the same level of disenfranchisement as blacks?

Today they have all the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

So then you agree though with the assertion that race does play a factor, thus if it does then Affirmative action is justified.

Yes, and I've said that. I've also said that the system is implemented poorly. The problem is that most people never actually get any benefit from Affirmative Action... and those who do generally don't need it (or didn't deserve it).

 

[Undecided]

Nondiscrimination laws, at least where governmment funding is involved (which it is involved almost everywhere).

Yes because laws have such a good record of stopping x from happening, the problem with laws is that they only deal with the situation after it already has happened. I am sorry but I don’t see how the government can do much to stop what has been in the human lexicon for thousands of years.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think that racism can be knocked down to a level where it is laughable when someone exhibits it.

The problem in our “modern world” is that many people don’t say “look at them niggers” anymore, it’s much more subtle and harder to prove, it may even be subconscious. That is a racism that arguably is even worse.

To me this seems fairly hollow. The majority of recent leaders have stated that what happened was wrong. Bush recently called slavery "one of the greatest crimes of history". Currently blacks and other minorities get special treatment by the goverment. Everybody who seems to be asking for an 'apology' seems to want a bill to be passed by congress 'officially' condeming slavery. It would be a bill that nobody would actually vote against (even if they wanted to), hence being empty.

So why not do it? If it so empty, and worthless to you (I would imagination that most blacks do not find it empty) why not just get it over with? Could it be because it would bring the US back to an era she’d rather forget?

but telling them that they 'should be pissed' only reinforcces the psychological effects.

I don’t believe modern blacks should be compensated, nor should they be pissed. Compared to blacks everywhere else (with some possible exceptions in Canada) American blacks live very well. So no they shouldn’t be pissed off, but they shouldn’t have to accept the status quo either.

Today they have all the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

Is that in practice?

 

[lixluke]

thefountainhed Shit fetish,
When the black children are all grown up, they will not be denied homes and jobs they deserve. As long as they study and work hard

What planet are you on?
I don't care how hard a black person works. Do you really think they are going to get the homes and jobs they deserve?

This is not a black problem. This is a problem across our society.

Right. I've seen the exact same type of thing happen to white people as well.
Poor people of all races are being used to do everybody else's dirt. It's the poor that put together our buildings, produce our food, clean up our trash, and do all of our dirt for us to live more luxuriously and have more leisure to sit and debate on an online forum. That's a whole different issue that I might have diverted to, but it sort of ties in.

What I'm talking about is the overabundance of blacks and other minority seasonal workers doing the slave labor in this country, and the overwhelming difficulty for them as a collective whole because of racism and other factors to get out of their whole.
The whole idea is this: I am at the bottom, and the system is set up to keep me at the bottom because somebody has to be at the bottom.
The people at the very top are certainly doing everything in their power to remain at the top, and because of their power, it isn't too difficult for them.

By giving blacks extra benefits you are in no way helping the people you are talking about.

Any suggestions?

You need to help poor/uneducated people.... not black people.

You do need to help poor people.
You say blacks don't need help, but it is the blacks that have to endure racism every day.




AFFIRMATIVE ACTION - Blacks being chosen over whites is unfair.
--------------------
White people complain about blacks getting special treatment. The reason is, when blacks get special treatment or do something like start a black engineer club, it's outright. Nobody hides it. Blacks are getting special treatment, and are not hiding it. Whites complain.

In just about every aspect of society, whites get much better treatment than blacks. People that do so would never admit to it. Blacks now wonder why white people who say they are not racist throw tantrums when they see a black person getting special treatment when everywhere else, whites are considerably favored. Is it that they have no idea how lucky they are to live in a society that embraces their skin color? Is it because they do not understand how it feels to live in a society that does not embrace their skin color?

A black person might wonder why a white person would complain when a black person is chosen for a job for being black. After all, that black person was turned down from a dozen other jobs for being black.


Should people not get upset when a black person is chosen over a more qualified white person because the company wants more blacks in their staff?
Does the fact that white people are given preference most of the time make it reasonable for a black person to receive prefernce?
Does doing something like giving black people preference help even things out or does it just teach us that there is nothing wrong with giving people preference based on race.
Is there an easy solution?


Some whites don't care about the problems blacks go through. Blacks being discriminated against has no bearing on them. It's only when whites are being challenged that they get upset:

I DO NOT give a shit about how blacks are doing

I DO care about stopping idiots from spewing unecessary (and half untrue) history lectures supporting blacks and the idea "It's ok for them to be pissed

OverTheStars could care less how blacks are doing.
OverTheStars is angry when blacks challenge the whites. Therefore, OverTheStars does care when whites are discriminated against.
OverTheStars does not care if blacks are being lied about, but OverTheStars does care if whites are being lied about.


The United States Commission on Civil Rights enforce equal opportunity laws that prevent employers from discriminating against you because of your race weather you are black or white.




BET
Some say that it is not fair that BET is allowed to keep their. After all, if there was a WET, they would torn off the air faster than light.
They wonder why BET doen't change their name.
1. BET just like any other station is a business for profit. The name of the TV station is based on pure marketing strategy. You might feel might make more money by changing their name. Their marketing department probably feels that the name BET is would be best suited to promote themselves to their target market.
2. BET is just as capitalist as any other business in the country. They follow the capitalist rules: If it helps your business, and you can get away with it, do it.




"A slave is a slave."
--------------------
I totally agree. It doesn't matter how well you are treated. The fact that you are a slave means that your rights are being abused. Claiming ownership over another person no matter how well you treat the person is abuse.

Yes, anyone deprived of anything should raise up their arms and say,"F**k you." As long as they studied hard for it, and worked hard for it.

Why as long as you worked hard for it?
Do we have to work hard for the privlage of not being discriminated against before we stand up against discrimination.

what a stupid post....all u black people shut up, u've got just as many rights as anybody else

Sure blacks have just as many rights. Too bad because of discrimination, blacks constantly encounter problems exercising these rights.




BLACKS COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PAST
Should blacks be angry about something that happened many years ago to somebody they never met?
Actually, it wasn't that many years ago that blacks were slaves. Furthermore, after slavery was abolished, blacks still had to deal with serious racism. It wasn't until Dr. King and his Equal Opportunity Act that blacks and whites by law had to be treated equally. That in itself is a very recent law. Despite abolished slavery and the equal opportunity laws, blacks today are not yet close to full recovery from the racism and oppression that their predecesors experienced.
The fact of the matter is, many people are very angry about slavery. Blacks and whites alike.
What about the attitude that blacks deserve some type of compensation for the crimes that were commited against them and are still being committed against them? Many of them even lived in times before equal opportunity when discrimination was much more rampant.

How do you compensate somebody for such horrors?
Is it possible?
Do they deserve it?
What can we all do weather black or white to make sure we can live together.
Is bickering about the complaints that the blacks are making and invalidating their circumstances productive?




The self fulfilling prophecy.
A black person claims that the system is set up for black people to stay at the bottom. The black person feels there is no way out, and doesn't even try.
A white person claims that blacks exagerate their plight, and therefore, create the plight that prevents them from succeeding.
The fact of the matter is, it's not an exageration.
A white person might believe that if the black person understands that it's just an illusion, than the black person can experience his freedoms.

In actuallity, the best solution is to understand the plight, and to understand that it isn't an illusion or exageration. Most of all, to understand that despite the plight, you might as well do your best to overcome it. And if you as an individual really want to be free, than you should not only be doing your best to live in society so that you are as comfortable as you can be in a white dominated society. You should do your best to help bring about change so that you personally as an individual wouldn't have to live in a white dominated society.

 

[Persol]

What I'm talking about is the overabundance of blacks and other minority seasonal workers doing the slave labor in this country, and the overwhelming difficulty for them as a collective whole because of racism and other factors to get out of their whole.

Yet you have not shown that current racism is the reason for the overabundance of blacks in this situation. If that were the reason, I'd agree completely.

But I don't think it is.

It is that they don't have the ability to do any better... do mostly to were they were born and how much is in the bank.

I think that current 'racism' is a miniscule cause when compared to current 'other factors'.

The whole idea is this: I am at the bottom, and the system is set up to keep me at the bottom because somebody has to be at the bottom.

That's the point. You aren't kept at the bottom because you are black. You are kept at the bottom because you have no chance to move up.

By only worrying about the black people who happen to be at the bottom, you are just discriminating against a different group.

You do need to help poor people.
You say blacks don't need help, but it is the blacks that have to endure racism every day.

Then you deal with the racism. Educate kids about race and make sure people know when you've been shit on.

But the current system just doesn't work. It gives work for those minorties who are already educated enough to get a job, but does nothing for the vast majority who are uneducated.

I've lived in NY and Philly... so maybe it is different up here... but I've never worked at place for more than $40,000 that didn't have black people working there and didn't have specific criteria for picking employees. Nobody benefits by hiring an poorly qualified white guy over a better qualified black guy.

 

[lixluke]

Yet you have not shown that current racism is the reason for the overabundance of blacks in this situation.

That's because it's virtually impossible to show.
White supremacy and racism is rampant. Blacks have to live with it everyday.
Weather it's something like being denied a job or something as small as walking down the street, and feeling self conscious because of your color.
Say you are a computer technician.
You start an on-site computer repair company in Aventura, a white area.
People in Aventura are rich so you could probably make good money there.
The only problem is that your black. You might try to say this isn't a problem.

Your business is repairing people's computers at home when they break.
If it were true that racism isn't really an issue, than people would invite you into their expensive Aventura homes to repair their computers the same way they would a white person. Good luck.

Does that mean if your black, you can't do good business in Aventura as an on-site pc repairman? Of course not.
But you might have to work harder at it to prove yourself than a person who is openly welcomed because he has white skin.


TRUE STORY:
My black friend quit his job to start an on-site pc repair business in Aventura and North Miami Beach. Expensive jewish communities. I suggested he put a jewish star looking logo on his ad so that people would think he's a jew. He already did it. He told another black friend do the voice for his answering because that other black friend has the geekiest white voice you can imagine.




Any expert at marketing takes to account the psychology of the consumer. If you're marketing your product weather you are white, black, or whatever, it is important to acknowledge the psychologies of your consumers.

One marketer might argue that racism isn't that rampant. He believes that the consumers have minute racial bias. Therefore, he comes up with a strategy taking into consideration weather less racism is an obstacle or an advantage to selling his product or service.

Another marketer might argue that racism is rampant. He believes that the consumers have lots of racial bias. Therefore, he comes up with a strategy taking into consideration weather lots of racism is an obstacle or an advantage to selling his product or service.

Weather the consumer is racist or not, the wise marketer will develop a strategy on how to use the consumer's level of racism and other psychological factors as an advantage.

It is that they don't have the ability to do any better... do mostly to were they were born and how much is in the bank.

That of course a big issue for any person of any race. You are either born into wealth, poverty, or somewhere in between.
But just as much as I cannot prove that discrimination plays a big part, I see no evidence that discrimination is comparitavely a miniscule factor.

The overabundace of racism i enconter daily just seems too overwhelming for me to say it doesn't play a big part in the problem. It even seems like many people aren't even aware that they are discriminating. Just because they are not burning crosses does not mean they are not exhibiting racist behavior.
I make the generalization that white people and even some black people would rather have a white person in their luxury home fixing their computer than a black person. Not necessarily because they are raving racists, but because they make a mathematical decision based on the probability that a white peson is less likely to cause trouble and more likely be more educated about computers. Therefore, they feel it would be most logical to make the racist choice to pick the person you are more comfortable with inviting into your home.

I think that current 'racism' is a miniscule cause when compared to current 'other factors'.
That's the point. You aren't kept at the bottom because you are black. You are kept at the bottom because you have no chance to move up.

Nomatter what color you are, it is difficult to move up when the people at the top do whatever it takes to keep you at the bottom. But to say that blacks don't have to face significantly more problems than others is hard to believe.

By only worrying about the black people who happen to be at the bottom, you are just discriminating against a different group.

Of course. It's discrimination against other groups.
But the reason people do so is that they feel the discrimination against blacks is so overabundant that the only way to overcome it is by dicriminately worrying about blacks over other groups.

but does nothing for the vast majority who are uneducated.

Everybody knows the best way to keep a slave. Beat them, threaten them? No. Prevent them from learning how to read? You have a slave for life.

I've lived in NY and Philly... so maybe it is different up here

Blacks in NY and Philly have to face just as much racism as blacks most anywhere else.
You witness blacks in NY and Philly hired because they are qualified no matter what their skin color is.
You might be able to give me countless examples how blacks are treated fairly as I can give you countless examples how they aren't.
Being black in a white dominated society is a very big obstacle.

White domination is a problem in a country that should be dominated interacially. There is no easy solution. But a claim that
racial discrimination against blacks is a miniscule cause when compared to current other factors
is a claim that is difficult to believe.

 

[Persol]

You might be able to give me countless examples how blacks are treated fairly as I can give you countless examples how they aren't.

I can't argue with you here because I'm not black.

My reason for stating that poverty/class standards is a bigger issue is because the problems listed do not only face blacks. Even if racism magically disappered tonight, blacks would still be poor and uneducated when compared to other groups.

I think I agree with 'Not necessarily because they are raving racists, but because they make a mathematical decision based on the probability that a white peson is less likely to cause trouble and more likely be more educated about computers'... with the decision being mostly subconscious.

I still disagree with you on the amount of racism... but to be honest it isn't something you or I can judge (short of someone calling you a nigger). Something unfair happens you may think 'racism' while I think 'life isn't fair'... and since neither of us are mind readers we can't claim to know the extent.

That said, there have to be studies on this. Applicants with the same type of behavior/intelligence go for a job, who is more likely to get a call back?

 

[Tracker00]

40 years is equivalent to agos ago?

What I hate about modern age, is this idea that if some group suffered ages ago from oppression by another group, the ex-oppressor is somehow obligated to pat on the head the ex-abused group.

 

[Insanely Elite]

Hell yeah!

Blacks should be pissed.
Indians should be pissed.
Mexicans should be pissed.
The working poor should be pissed.
Communists should be pissed.
Drug users should be pissed.
Every American who is not living the American dream should be pissed.
I'm pissed.

Insanely Elite

 

[lixluke]

Have you ever met a black person that did not think racial discrimination against blacks is one of the biggest obstacles that keep blacks from succeeding?

You hear white people claiming blacks are exagerating their plight. That although there is racism, it's not as bad as blacks make it out to be.
So why do you never find blacks who would agree with this?
Is it because they don't know what their talking about even though they are the ones experiencing it?
I don't get it.

 

[fadingCaptain]

I agree with the above.

Yet, I'm not pissed.

Oh to be white, rich, and capitalist! Don't knock it till you try it.

 

[Persol]

That although there is racism, it's not as bad as blacks make it out to be.

I've had black friends pull out the racism card when they've lost jobs or got bad grades. Then they'd show me how 'good' their work was...

So yes, some blacks do exaggerate their claims of racism (although exaggerate may not be the right word... more like not understanding/want to believe the reason given).

I doubt you'll find anyone who says racism doesn't exist. The question is the level of racism and what it actually affects.

 

[thefountainhed]

Persol, why do you keep bringing up the notion of current racism being the major or only cause of many of the problems facing blacks? Where in my post do you see me expounding said idea?

Yet you have not shown that current racism is the reason for the overabundance of blacks in this situation. If that were the reason, I'd agree completely.

It is a annoying that a simple notion has to be repeated again and again because of people's inability to simply listen and analyze what is said. Blacks are overabundant in the situation displayed by undecided because of the factors I laid out in my opening post. 200+ years of slavery in addition to 100+ years of systematic mental and economical depravation created a group that is disproportionately poor, undereducated, stereotyped, etc. The 40 years of progress through law, etc has helped blacks, amongst others who were suffering the same inequalities--- women, the disabled, asians, gays... Still, Blacks remain disproportionately poor and under educated. He still remains part of an environment where "Black" is undervalued. He still remains part of an environment where he is doubted. I need to find the source, but tracking a black and a white youth with equal I.Qs the white had the better chance of success in this nation.

I knew a Jewish friend who was working for a boss who constantly made anti-Semitic jokes. According to this friend, this boss claimed he would never hire a jewish person. So how come this friend was working for said boss? Simple: Association as a jew is mostly religious based. There is no external "handicap" or reference point to the label of a jew. Unlike a black person, the Jewish person does not brandish his ethnicity. Prejudices still exist; perceptions still exist.

But I don't think it is.

It is that they don't have the ability to do any better... do mostly to were they were born and how much is in the bank.

Do you think they got where they are now because of their own choosing? Society has an obligation to its downtrodden. America was largely built on the back of the slaves. The economic system for the better of 3 centuries was based on slaves from Africa. When these slaves were freed, they were segregated into poor communities that became the ghettos of today. There's a city about 15 minutes south of Philadelphia called Chester, which is predominantly black. Drugs, prostitution and crime plague this city. There practically does not exist businesses outside the gas stations, liquor stores and black owned restaurants. A 10 second walk from Chester is Brookhaven, futher down Media, Aston, Boothwynn, etc, which are all white communities. The blacks have to walk or drive down to these suburban communities to shop for simplicities such as groceries. The police force is mostly white and amazingly racist. The city government is predominantly white. This town is the closest representation of black communities as were in the sixties, seventies. Most blacks in Chester expect to live out their miserable lives in the miserable city. Their education system is pathetic. I know a coworker from said city whose brother got a 1350 on his SATs, went to a high school in Chester, had a 4.0 and still couldn't get into Harvard and yet affluent fucks who pay for SAT tutorship and had worse grades, etc but whose rich parents donate to the school or are alumni, still get into said institution and yet you run your fucking mouth. To be black is a handicap in this nation. There is no two ways about it.

I think that current 'racism' is a miniscule cause when compared to current 'other factors'.
That's the point. You aren't kept at the bottom because you are black. You are kept at the bottom because you have no chance to move up.

What are the "other factors"? Show me how they are not in place because of past institutionalized racism or prejudice. Show me how these other factors are not seeped in racism.

By only worrying about the black people who happen to be at the bottom, you are just discriminating against a different group.

How so? It would be discrimination if blacks making up 12% of the population made up a like representation amongst the poor, but they do not. Blacks are DISPROPORTIONATELY represented amongst the poor and uneducated, and therefore it is not racism to attempt to elevate their status. How can something this simple escape you?

Then you deal with the racism. Educate kids about race and make sure people know when you've been shit on.

How do you educate prejudice when large percentage of blacks still represent the underclass and uneducated?

But the current system just doesn't work. It gives work for those minorties who are already educated enough to get a job, but does nothing for the vast majority who are uneducated.

In this much I agree to an extent; the black stuck in the hell of the ghetto finds it hard to take advantage of the opportunities available to him, but that does not mean you therefore deny him the chance entirely.

I've lived in NY and Philly... so maybe it is different up here... but I've never worked at place for more than $40,000 that didn't have black people working there and didn't have specific criteria for picking employees. Nobody benefits by hiring an poorly qualified white guy over a better qualified black guy.

I live in Philly. The majority of the city is black. Blacks hold most of the poor paying jobs. Blacks are underrepresented in the higher paying jobs. 3 blacks at a place with 100 whites earning more than $40,000 is no success. The happiness and surprise at seeing a black in an executive position is no success. These things ought to be expected.

 

[thefountainhed]

See my problems is why? Why does he, like so many, lag. I agree with what you say. Education, for the greater part, was denied to or supressed in quality for the Black people. In todays day and age that does not need to be. I, myself, have spent 2 my junior high years in one of the worst schools in NY and even then I found plenty of chances to distance myself from the ignorance which lack of education brings.

It does not need to be but it is. People refuse to recognize the issue and the government would rather spend billions of dollars on an unneeded war than to spend the money helping cure its myriad of internal problems. Also, I'm unsure what ethnicity you consider yourself, but if as a black/hispanic you are certainly an aberration within the community you suggest you are from. I suspect it has a lot to do with your parents.

Exactly. So could it be that many low class black families do not motivate their kids enough? They, themselves, do not find much hope in their kids so they raise them with values of a hard working, blue collar individual.

It is a disillusionment that stems from having existed in a society that has continually disappointed; it is in the presence of an inability to escape from the stangling hold of poverty and crime. It is an expectation.

The way he got this way is never simple to understand. In so many occasions the result is helped directly or indirectly by hundreds of factors. The problem can't be found and only debate reigns (take this thread for example) because no one really knows where the problem begins or ends. Each solution and complain has many rebuttals.

No, the way he got this way is very simple to understand. There have been many, many studies that ultimately reach the same conclusions. The societies and communities in which the black man dwells are the products of societal dynamics that undermined his status and denied him the chance to elevate past his current place. What is debated amongst those educated about the problem is how to get him out of his current position. Many of the so called rebuttals have been stupid little comments by people unwilling or able to understand what the hell it is that I am saying. It is from stupid people who would not simply go to google and research the issue. Make up a thread about race and intelligence and it drags in for 15 pages. This is no indication that opinions held should be equally valued.

What roots? Acting educated or being soft spoken isn't losing one's roots is it?

You miss the point and are asking me a question that ought to be directed elsewhere. In anycase, my point is that when they view the people you indicated, they do not see themselves except in the skin colour.

True but I still don't understand how Jay-z is still "black" while Bryant Gumbel isn't.

Jay-Z is black, and Gumbel is also black. Besides, I think a lot of what you refer to maybe from cultural images promoted by comedians, etc.. Still, it is easier for the black which you describe to better relate to Jay-Z. For one, he dresses and talks like Jay.

From where then?

The home, family, society.

My point is that I shouldn't have to but I do in every instance.....this does not bode well for the black male youth. While I am, so far, able to rationalize my fear most aren't.....Maybe this is the beginning of the cycle, the planting seed which causes undermining in every other aspect. I guess it only takes one bad experience to start contributing negatively.

Yes, this is the start, and it will get worse with reaffirmation. The good doesn't nearly count as much as the bad in this circumstance.

Heh...true ain't it. But I have come to find that the skin colour now acts as reminder, a signal of all the sterotypes one adheres to. The prejudice in this day and age doesn't stand simply against the darkened color itself, the color acts as a seal of approval to start worrying about personal health, property etc because every night you see another police sketch of a robber, murderer, rapist etc and he happens to be black or latino.....the color is a reminder of irrational fear, a flag of possible danger....

You are limiting the scope

 

[Persol]

Blacks are overabundant in the situation displayed by undecided because of the factors I laid out in my opening post. 200+ years of slavery in addition to 100+ years of systematic mental and economical depravation created a group that is disproportionately poor, undereducated, stereotyped, etc.

Yet you still seem to miss the point that that doesn't give 'blacks' a reason to be pissed.There are thousands of poor people who are not black, and thousands of blacks who are not poor.

black!=shitty life

The reason black people today are still 'depraved' is because they started out their lives with very little, and the way our world is setup tends to keep them there... REGARDLESS OF THIER COLOR.

A 10 second walk from Chester is Brookhaven, futher down Media, Aston, Boothwynn, etc, which are all white communities.

Or you can goto Fishtown/Kensington and then hop on a bus to Mt. Airy/Chesnut Hill. The point is that the color of your skin is not the main problem, and doesn't present many challenges that other races don't also face.

Blacks are DISPROPORTIONATELY represented amongst the poor and...

People who had poor parents are disproportionate represented amongth the poor and...

So let me get this straight. There's a bunch of people people... and your biggest concern is that a lot of them are black? Uh huh. News flash... the majority of them (black/white/hispanic/whatever) had no choice in their situation. There is no good reason for you to elevate the problem of black poverty above the poverty of everyone else sitting in the slums.

Should the rest of the poor people be pissed because their great great grandfathers couldn't get good jobs? Your only rationale for this group here is race. The funny thing is that race isn't even the thing keeping the 'status quo' of your group. It's parental poverty... the same thing that is affecting every other group of poor people.

How do you educate prejudice when large percentage of blacks still represent the underclass and uneducated?

Better question... what's the point of making race your number one priority when the large percentage of blacks will still be in the underclass and uneducated due to poverty. Sorry bub, nothing comes from the road except generational anger.

In this much I agree to an extent; the black stuck in the hell of the ghetto finds it hard to take advantage of the opportunities available to him, but that does not mean you therefore deny him the chance entirely.

No, but you also don't tell him to be pissed because his great great grandfather got pissed on. Everone in the ghetto is there for a reason... black or not. And they all have the same problem. Picking out a single group as being in some way 'special' (when the people who are actually in this group have the same position at birth as many others) is racism in itself.

What are the "other factors"? Show me how they are not in place because of past institutionalized racism or prejudice. Show me how these other factors are not seeped in racism.

You are born poor. You want an education, but your local schools suck. You can't get a basic education, and have no chance in college even if you do manage to get the money. You aren't educated enough to hold a high paying job, and you pass this legacy down to your children. Does it matter what color you are? Why?

You seem to have this idea that the poor are made mostly of blacks, so it must be true that the white (who make up the rich) are trying to keep down the black... when in reality economics is just supporting the rich's attempts to stay rich at the expense of the poor. Giving unfair advantages to specific groups of the poor because 'they make up a dissproportionate' amount is racism at it's basest.

3 blacks at a place with 100 whites earning more than $40,000 is no success.

No, and neither is 50 blacks at a place with 50 whites. In fact, it shouldn't matter if you see 50 purple people working there. Your feeling of 'success' is founded only on the color of ones skin and does nothing to promote fairness or equality between people. Not between blacks and white... but between people.

 

[lixluke]

The topic is that blacvks should be pissed as in angry.

According to Aristotle:
""Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy.""

Who should blacks be angry at?
To what degree should blacks be angry?
When should blacks be angry?
For what purpose should blacks be angry?
How should blacks be angry?


I say we should all be angry anybody who thinks that the past should be forgotten about.

 

[Persol]

It's not about forgetting the past, but about realizing that you can't go back in time. You can only try and stop if from continuing.

I'll feel in these answers that have been given in this thread:
Who should blacks be angry at?
That was answered in the first post. The answer basically comes down to two points: 'black americans have shitty lives because their parents were discriminated against' and "The Black remains the poorest of all the ethnicities in the nation because he had no other choice". http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=39838&page=1&pp=20
The problem is that this is tied into being 'black'. Being poor because you have no other choice is far from being only a black problem. It's a problem with our society, and blacks just happen to make up a large percentage because their parents made up a large percentage. Isolating this one group of the poor just because the are all black is racism.

To what degree should blacks be angry?
At least verbally angry it seems "I think each time a White person makes an irrational statement regarding the unfairness of affirmative action, the Black outta respond, “Fuck you”."

When should blacks be angry?
The post seems to suggest whenever they have shitty lifes. Nice scapegoat.

For what purpose should blacks be angry?
Well, here's the big one.... what does it accomplish beside more racism and more seperation? Blacks are not poor because they are black, but because their parents were poor. They could have magically popped out of their mother as white... and they'd still be poor. Getting pissed because you are black isn't a very good reason, and serves no good purpose.

How should blacks be angry?
Evidently by posting on sciforums.

 

[thefountainhed]

Yet you still seem to miss the point that that doesn't give 'blacks' a reason to be pissed.There are thousands of poor people who are not black, and thousands of blacks who are not poor.

black!=shitty life

The reason black people today are still 'depraved' is because they started out their lives with very little, and the way our world is setup tends to keep them there... REGARDLESS OF THIER COLOR.

And they are there precisely because they are black. You keep insisting on this silly notion that preference is always bad because others are in like situation who aren't preferred. For the last fucking time, I"ll talk to you like a little fucking kid:

Population: 1000.

Whites 700
Blacks: 120

The poor: 200

If blacks represent 70 of the poor, and whites represent 120 of the poor, you have a disproportionality. This is the currrent situtaion.

Blacks are poorer now because they were enslaved and constiitutionately limited for 400 years. They have had more benefits for the past 40 years, and acceptable constitunional equality for the past 20 years. You are a moron if you assume what happened before is irrelevenat. Of course being poor tends to keep you poor. However, you qualify it with being black made you poor, being black kept you poor, and more blacks are poor.

Or you can goto Fishtown/Kensington and then hop on a bus to Mt. Airy/Chesnut Hill. The point is that the color of your skin is not the main problem, and doesn't present many challenges that other races don't also face.
People who had poor parents are disproportionate represented amongth the poor and...

What the fuck is your point? Being poor tends to keep you poor. Yes, who is denying that? The fact is being BLACKS tends to mean you are more poor.

So let me get this straight. There's a bunch of people people... and your biggest concern is that a lot of them are black? Uh huh. News flash... the majority of them (black/white/hispanic/whatever) had no choice in their situation. There is no good reason for you to elevate the problem of black poverty above the poverty of everyone else sitting in the slums.

There is no good reason? Why am I even arguing with your obviously irrational self? There is a reason, and the reason is that more blacks are poor. It is the very same reason why you view domestic abuse from the side of the female because she is usually the abused.

Should the rest of the poor people be pissed because their great great grandfathers couldn't get good jobs? Your only rationale for this group here is race. The funny thing is that race isn't even the thing keeping the 'status quo' of your group. It's parental poverty... the same thing that is affecting every other group of poor people.

Are you a fucking idiot?

I am sick of morons posting in this thread and not reading the bloody topic.

Blacks should be pissed when

1. People (including Asians and women who have been the groups to have benefitted the most) try to make affirmative action a black issue
2. People attempt to halt affirmative action programs on the back of nonexistent evidence that equality currently exists.
3. People ignore 400 years of black plight in the discussion of their current problems, as if it were of no import.

If blacks are perecntagewise the highest amongst the poor, undereducated, incarcerated, etc how in the fucking world is there racial equality?

Part of tackling poverty and inequality is to understand HOW the poor came to be within their present states. The notion that a current black living in the ghettos of Detroit and whose grandparent was a slave and whose parent was sprayed with pepper spray in the civil rights marches of the 60s is as free to climb the social ladder is moronic.

Poverty is a racial issue. It is a racial issue because the minorities, and mostly blacks are dispropotionately represented amongst the poor. Race ceases to be of issue when the proportionality is equal or at least equal amongst the races. It is a racial issue because one can track the large amounts of black representation amongst the poor to slavery and segregation that dates to the last 60s. This is a modern problem because remnants remain in prejudices, and social constructs resulting from past actions.

I'm done with this thread because I keep getting annoyed at the stupid responses i keep seeing.

 

[Persol]

And they are there precisely because they are black. You keep insisting on this silly notion that preference is always bad because others are in like situation who aren't preferred

In this case it is bad. Three people are poor. One white, one black, one hispanic. They all have the same living conditions and education level. The reason why they are there doesn't really matter.... they are all there.

Why's the black kid deserve to be put in his own special group? Just because alot of other poor people look like him?

Blacks are disproportionatly represented among the poor because of this that happened to their ancestors... not to them. Stop advocating this racial memory crap. They have no more reason to be pissed than any other poor person.

Hate to tell ya, but 'equality' does not mean an equal percentage of blacks and white with equal pay. It means people who start out with the same coniditions have the same availability to advance.

This is a modern problem because remnants remain in prejudices, and social constructs resulting from past actions.

Bullshit. The majority of blacks are poor because they were born that way... not because the man is actively trying to keep blacks down. Even if racism disappeared today, poor blacks would still have no money and be disadvantaged when it came to education.... not because they are black, but because they are poor.

EQUALITY DOES NOT MEAN THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO BE EQUALLY REPRESENTED ON SOME ARBITRARY BASIS (race).

EQUALITY DOES MEAN THAT PEOPLE WITH THE SAME CONDITIONS ARE TREATED THE SAME REGARDLESS OF SOME ARBITRARY BASIS (race).

Your entire argument is based on 'a large percentage of balcks are poor'. By trying to specifically help blacks (who are at the same place as all other poor people) you are discriminating and causing inequality.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

I think this picture sums up the issue rather well.

 

[duendy]

what's he handing to them..??

ok.....thing is. a wrong has been done. slavery. s the person who knows so much about the blcak experience here, actually black, or even poor? just curious

a wrong has ben done. is it acknowledged be society?

it's like this: say i really did you and your family wrong, big style. don't you, the victim get natrually resentful. until there is reconciliation and forgiveness?
yes? no?...if yes, then cant you widen that natrual feeling outwardly to what i shappening in our society?

there's so much involved here that is being ignored. subtleties. for example, why do you think it is that more black people are diagnosed, mosly by non-black psychiatriats to be 'mentally ill'...and why is it that in the /states so many black kmen are incarcerated fro drugs?...what about the resentment about that?
this is complex. you cannot just lump white and blcak togther cause they is poor. there are other things. a poor white person can see so-called role models on TV (speaking here of the UK--dont know bout USA). not many black youths can. its all gangsta rappers. an image pushed by WHITE management

also recently saw one of those US crime docus--you know where the camera follows real action. and guess what, the main criminals focussed on were black. whats that do. it creates hostility against balck youths from white community, including from white poor.

many 'successful' black people will usually explain that from them to 'make it' they had to try twice as hard. how'd you fancy that if YOU was living in a shit area with the gangsta-wannab pressure all round beckoning, and threatening?...huh? would that give you incentive?....tell me what you do?