Biblical errors

[Markx]

So tony1, do you think is Jesus God or not?. As far as I know and what I have learned in chruches in my younger years was Jesus is God but I didn't buy that. That's why I decided to learn about other religions. Then if Jesus is not God then whole christianity will collapse or it won't??
Thanks in advance.

 

[James R]

Re: Try again, tiassa

tony1,

Please try reading what I wrote instead of substituting your own stupidity and responding to that. I know it's easier, but it makes you look silly.

<i>You actually think that God is a consensus of people.</i>

No. Where did I say that? Oh - I didn't. Hmm....

<i>Do you have a brain?</i>

Clearly I do. Or maybe God is writing this for me.

<i>Can you think at all?</i>

It seems I can. Try some difficult questions, tony1.

<i>Where did you get the idea that the majority wins? Are you daft?</i>

Once again, I will ignore your silly personal comments and ask you to consider my statement in its original, real, context.

<i>How about cold fusion and the rebuttals of cold fusion?</i>

Oh, ok, then. You're talking about the process of peer review in science, which is a valuable, though imperfect part of the scientific method. No argument from me there. I thought you were bringing up that point for a different, invalid, reason.

<i>Perhaps I am mistaken, and you don't actually give a shit about eternal life.</i>

How are my opinions on eternal life relevant to whether the bible has contradictions? Why do you bring them up?

<i>I don't need [the bible] to be 100% accurate. And actually you do, before you'll believe it.</i>

No. That's your imaginings again.

<i>You actually care zero about the accuracy of any belief when it is contradicting the Bible.</i>

And again.

<i>While you believe you need a preponderance of evidence to believe the ToE, you don't actually care whether the evidence is evidence of the ToE, as long as a certain number of people are telling you it is.</i>

Excuse my ignorance, but what's the ToE, and what does it have to do with evolution? And numbers are a relevant but not deciding factor in my beliefs.

<i>Thus, you don't care about the accuracy of the belief, you are merely concerned with the number of people who agree with you.</i>

No, I'm afraid that's wrong too.

You know, it's very easy to refute your claims about <b>my</b> beliefs. You see, tony1, they are <b>my</b> beliefs, so I am the final authority on what they are. It makes you look even sillier when you try to put words into my mouth.

<i>[The bible] contains the word of God, along with some words by Satan, a number of devils, dozens of people, etc.</i>

Oh, ok then. So we agree that the bible has errors - even deliberate errors now? Fine. End of conversation.

It interests me that seemingly only tony1 has the ability to sort the wheat from the chaff when it comes to the bible. What's your secret recipe?

 

[Taken]

"It interests me that seemingly only tony1 has the ability to sort the wheat from the chaff when it comes to the bible. What's your secret recipe?"


ROFL....
I shall now go to bed while I am in a good mood. Thanks JR...nothing like a good laugh to relieve stress. There is a LOT of humor in the truth.

 

[tony1]

Re: The Bible

*Originally posted by ltcmmdr
I think the Bible is full of errors no matter what. *

And your opinion means....?

*Originally posted by Markx
So tony1, do you think is Jesus God or not?*

Jesus is God's Word.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(John 1:1, KJV).

*Then if Jesus is not God then whole christianity will collapse or it won't?*

Probably not.

*Originally posted by James R
No. Where did I say that?*

When you said, "It sure does. Majority wins, I guess."
Perhaps you are one of those people who actually thinks....
1. that there aren't any corollaries to anything you say
2. that other people can't figure out the ramifications of what you say

*ask you to consider my statement in its original, real, context.*

OK, are you still daft?
"Majority wins" is a fool's rule of thumb.
The majority loses, and anyone who thinks that consensus is the way to decide what the truth is, has completely lost sight of reality.

*You're talking about the process of peer review in science*

Duh, where else does contradiction arise?
I am not suggesting that scientists can't read numbers on, say, rulers.
In your case, I would wonder, though.

*How are my opinions on eternal life relevant to whether the bible has contradictions? Why do you bring them up?*

There are some people who draw a connection between what the Bible has to say and eternal life.

*Excuse my ignorance, but what's the ToE, and what does it have to do with evolution? And numbers are a relevant but not deciding factor in my beliefs.*

ToE = Theory of Evolution.

Anyway, numbers being relevant to belief is another way of saying that you think fallaciously.
Simply put, you cannot think straight.
What difference could it possibly make if one person or one billion people think that you should go left to get to your destination, if what you need to do is go right?

*You know, it's very easy to refute your claims about my beliefs. You see, tony1, they are my beliefs, so I am the final authority on what they are.*

That's the "you'd have to be a mind reader to understand me" fallacy.
You're transparent as glass.
You actually aren't some inscrutable incredibly wise sage far beyond all other mortals.
Your beliefs are the standard beliefs that many in your situation hold, and your denials are the same, too.
Furthermore, it is quite clear that you cannot reason analogically.

*So we agree that the bible has errors - even deliberate errors now? Fine. End of conversation.*

Only for those who cannot distinguish between "containing error" and "being in error."

*What's your secret recipe?*

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
(Psalms 1:1-4, KJV).

*Originally posted by Taken
There is a LOT of humor in the truth.*

There's even more in whatever that is that you post.
My sides hurt after reading some of your stuff.

 

[Markx]

Re: Re: The Bible

Originally posted by tony1
[
*Originally posted by Markx
So tony1, do you think is Jesus God or not?*

Jesus is God's Word.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(John 1:1, KJV).

*Then if Jesus is not God then whole christianity will collapse or it won't?*

Probably not.


[/B]

Well by simply saing that you are very close to muslim belief. Now I don't know your religion but I like to say if that's what you believe in then you are believing in exactly what Muslim Quran says, Qur'an tells us about Jesus' mission in the following verses,


"And He will teach him the Book, the wisdom, the Torah, the Gospel and make him a Messenger to the children of Israel saying, “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into It, and it will be a bird, by the power of God. I will also heal the blind and the leper and bring to life the dead, by the power of God. I will inform you too of the things you eat, and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely in that is a sign for you if you are believers. Likewise I will confirm the truth of the Torah that is before me, and to make lawful to you certain things that before were forbidden unto you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; so fear God, and obey me. Surely God is my Lord and your Lord; so serve Him. This is a straight path". (3:45-51[\B]

Now that was his mission and that's I think what you said that he is a word of God. Now where can we find that word of God is another question since we don't know what happened to it in the hands of Paul,Matthew, John etc.

 

[Teg]

Great, a pagan and an atheist mutually agreeing on what the Bible means.
I guess with a consensus like that, who could argue?

Words are universal. I can see how such vague terminology and blatant word play, could lead to your misinterpretation. It is easy to believe that the bible is perfect, if you are of faith. Blind faith, well how could such an unquestioning force of stupidity doubt the perfection of a book that originated the psychosis. An open mind will not ignore such obvious facts. That would be the least of expectations from a person of able to doubt.

Life is easier without doubt, but in the end you have learned nothing. Doubt is what keeps us in line. It is a sort of balance, but none-the-less necessary. Beyond that and to the purest form we need fear.

No no, just yes.

Play with your words, it is justification of my statement.

Pray tell, you two, what does Ge. 1:1 mean?

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genisis1:1)

This is telling of the limited knowledge of the authors. Notice how they have the earth and then...everything else. They new nothing of absolute truths, they just guessed that the earth was created a long time ago. When? The beginning. Typically vague and typically rash in its assumptions: obviously the author was not there at the event. An average work by a primative people.

 

[tony1]

Re: Re: Re: The Bible

*Originally posted by Markx
Well by simply saing that you are very close to muslim belief.*

Real money is very "close" to counterfeit money.

*you are believing in exactly what Muslim Quran says,*

Nah, I've read the Koran a few times and I don't believe it.

*Now that was his mission and that's I think what you said that he is a word of God.*

You'd be wrong.
I said he is God's Word.

*Now where can we find that word of God is another question since we don't know what happened to it in the hands of Paul,Matthew, John etc. *

Let me guess, Muhammad found it 1400 years later in perfect shape.

Anyway, to answer your question, we find it right where it is all along, in the mouth of God.
The Word of God is spoken after all.

*Originally posted by Teg
Words are universal.*

So is bias.

*It is easy to believe that the bible is perfect, if you are of faith.*

Mine has a tear near the corner of one page, so mine isn't perfect, plus there's a worn spot in the binding.

*Blind faith, well how could such an unquestioning force of stupidity doubt the perfection of a book that originated the psychosis.*

The theory of evolution does funny things to a person.
Who would have thought that such blind faith would be found in the sciences, of all things?

*An open mind will not ignore such obvious facts. *

An open mind is unable to ignore anything.

*Life is easier without doubt, but in the end you have learned nothing.*

Not so.
I have learned that my life is a lot easier than yours.

*When? The beginning. Typically vague and typically rash in its assumptions: obviously the author was not there at the event. An average work by a primative people.*

Why did you bring the theory of evolution into this?
Obviously, the authors weren't there.
Assumptions, vagueness, vague assumptions and assumptions of vagueness are what the theory of evolution thrives on.
Obviously, the ToE is a substandard work by primitive people.

 

[James R]

<i>Perhaps you are one of those people who actually thinks.... [snip]</i>

... or perhaps I'm not one of those people.

Me: <i>...ask you to consider my statement in its original, real, context.</i>

You: <i>OK, are you still daft? [snip]</i>

You didn't do it, tony1. Try again. Third time lucky?

Me: <i>How are my opinions on eternal life relevant to whether the bible has contradictions? Why do you bring them up?</i>

You: <i>There are some people who draw a connection between what the Bible has to say and eternal life.</i>

You didn't answer the question tony1. Try again.

<i>ToE = Theory of Evolution.</i>

Thankyou. In physics ToE often means "theory of everything", a somewhat clumsy term concerned with the unification of the four fundamental forces, so you had me wondering.

<i>Simply put, you cannot think straight.</i>

Thankyou for providing your opinion (again).

<i>What difference could it possibly make if one person or one billion people think that you should go left to get to your destination, if what you need to do is go right?</i>

Well, if a billion minds have all considered the question and reached the same conclusion, and one mind reached the opposite conclusion, I think I'd generally bet on the billion rather than the one, all other things being equal. It would be a rare thing indeed for the one to be right in such a situation. Admittedly it is possible - just VERY VERY unlikely. But a rational person knows how to deal with probabilities such as this.

<i>That's the "you'd have to be a mind reader to understand me" fallacy.</i>

No, it's the "you'd have to be a mind reader to be able to read my mind" self-evident truth.

<i>You're transparent as glass.</i>

What a pity. And I try so hard to be enigmatic.

<i>You actually aren't some inscrutable incredibly wise sage far beyond all other mortals.</i>

Again, a pity. Maybe I need to work on my resemblance to Einstein a bit more? Or go and live a frugal life in India for a while? Perhaps I should buy some crystals? Hmm....

<i>Furthermore, it is quite clear that you cannot reason analogically.</i>

Well, at least reasoning at all is a start. I'll try to do better, if you do too.

<i>Only for those who cannot distinguish between "containing error" and "being in error."</i>

Please explain the difference for me, because I fear I am too dumb to be able to tell. If I were to imagine it's something like the difference between "visit" and "bear", would I be on the right track?

<i>[bible quote snipped]</i>

How do you know that's one of the true bits? Maybe that bit was written by a demon.

 

[tony1]

*Originally posted by James R
"Perhaps you are one of those people who actually thinks.... [snip]"

... or perhaps I'm not one of those people.*

You've got me convinced.
I finally admit that you are not one of those people who actually thinks.
It's been tough, but usually the opponent insists on being able to think.
I give up trying to convince you that you can think.

*Well, if a billion minds have all considered the question and reached the same conclusion, and one mind reached the opposite conclusion, I think I'd generally bet on the billion rather than the one, all other things being equal.*

So you admit that you would take the wrong turn, based not on rational thought but on blind probability only.

*It would be a rare thing indeed for the one to be right in such a situation. Admittedly it is possible - just VERY VERY unlikely. But a rational person knows how to deal with probabilities such as this.*

Assuming that you think of yourself as a "rational" person, you have repeatedly proven that a rational person does not know how to deal with probabilities such as this.

You're the guy who throws his winning lottery ticket away because statistically it could not have won.
Actually, you are the guy being offered a winning lottery ticket, but who refuses it on the grounds that there is no such thing because any rational person could calculate the probabilities, and the vast majority are losing tickets.

*Maybe I need to work on my resemblance to Einstein a bit more?*

No, working on your resemblance to an abacus, or a pile of rocks, would be more likely to succeed.

*Well, at least reasoning at all is a start.*

I take back any reference I may have made to your being able to reason at all.
See your first comments above ( around the "[snip]")

*Please explain the difference for me, because I fear I am too dumb to be able to tell.*

I agree, I'd be wasting my time.

*How do you know that's one of the true bits? Maybe that bit was written by a demon. *

Observation as per the scientific method, of all things.
I noted the reference to chaff blowing in the wind, and the similarity to your reasoning, or lack thereof, and the conclusion was inescapable.

 

[James R]

Thanks for your input, tony1. I see no need to respond to anything in your last post. Have a nice day!

 

[tony1]

*originally posted by James R
"Perhaps you are one of those people who actually thinks.... "[snip]

... or perhaps I'm not one of those people. *

Just a reminder as to why you're not posting an answer; inability to think.

I have to hand it to you, JR, when you prove a point, you prove a point.

 

[Markx]

Tony1, You are one interesting Character. You don't answer any one's question. May be you don't have any answer or may be you just don't want to answer so it will expose more holes in faith,Bible or maybe in Individual thinking.

I asked you do you believe if Jesus was God and you said he is God's word and now then when I gave you explanation from Quran you simply ditched it by saying it " I said he is God's Word". Now care to explain it??? What is that suppose to mean?.

Then you said, " Real money is very "close" to counterfeit money." Now how can counterfit is better then original?? In each and every sense.

I really don't care if you have read the Quran or not neither does it matter if you believe in or not. But care to tell us what do you read?? and what is the base of your belief??.

Twisted words, are nice but I think lots of people here are noticing that you are simply avoiding any direct answers. But it is all good. I hope you can explain us what is ur belief and how would you back it up.

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by Avatar
Post it Markx. Really. I'd like to hear smth other thn standart aswers I have heard on this religion forum lately.

I hope you read all the posts. Also for kalvinB I hope I did what you asked me to.

 

[razz]

I would like to submit these Facts that were edited out of the Bible.

'In the first book of the Bible, Guinessis, God got tired of creating the world, so he took the Sabbath off.'

'Adam and Eve were created from an apple tree.'

'Noah's wife was called Joan of Ark.'

'Lot's wife was a pillar of salt by day, but a ball of fire by night.'

'The Jews were a proud people and throughout history they had trouble with the unsympathetic Genitals.'

'Samson was a strongman who let himself be led astray by a Jezebel like Delilah.'

'Samson slayed the Philistines with the axe of the Apostles.'

'Moses led the Hebrews to the Red Sea, where they made unleavened bread which is bread without any ingredients.'

'The Egyptians were all drowned in the dessert. Afterwards, Moses went up on Mount Cyanide to get the 10 amendments.'

'The first commandment was when Eve told Adam to eat the apple.'

'The seventh commandment is thou shalt not admit adultery.'

'Moses died before he ever reached Canada.'

'Then Joshua led the Hebrews in the battle of Geritol.'

'The greatest miracle in the Bible is when Joshua told his son to stand still and he obeyed him.'

'David was a Hebrew king skilled at playing the liar. He fought with the Finklesteins, a race of people who lived in Biblical times.'

'Solomon, one of David's sons, had 300 wives and 700 porcupines.'

'When Mary heard that she was the mother of Jesus, she sang the Magna Carta.'

'When the three wise guys from the east side arrived, they found Jesus in the manager.'

‘Jesus was born because Man had an immaculate contraption.'

‘Jesus said the Golden Rule, which says to do one to others before they do one to you.'

'He also explained, "A man doth not live by sweat alone."'

'It was a miracle when Jesus rose from the dead and managed to get the tombstone off the entrance.'

'The people who followed the Lord were called the 12 decibels.'

'The epistles were the wives of the apostles.'

'One of the opossums was St Matthew who was also a taximan.'

'St Paul cavorted to Christianity. He preached holy acrimony, which is another name for marriage.'

'A Christian should have only one spouse. This is called monotony.'



Please amend your Bible accordingly.

Cheers
RazZ

 

[Teg]

The theory of evolution does funny things to a person.
Who would have thought that such blind faith would be found in the sciences, of all things?

I do not doubt what I observe. Gravity: I notice that I am not floating about, so I deduce that some force must be acting on me to stop my free motion. Science offers the best explanation. Objects naturally attract other objects.

Evolution: I observe that two creatures are very similar in appearance and behavior. I find a fossil record of a creature similar to both. Before the fossil record, the first two are not present, only some time after they appear. Two explanations: Tony1's god created two creatures and destroyed one. Or the only rational explanation: where once one species existed it has now branched into two very similar creatures seperated by land boundries or experiences.

I have learned that my life is a lot easier than yours.

I never said that comprehension would be easy.

.

Assumptions, vagueness, vague assumptions and assumptions of vagueness are what the theory of evolution thrives on.
Obviously, the ToE is a substandard work by primitive people

You know nothing of the theory of evolution. How can you attack something you have never read. It was included in Encyclopedia Brittanica's set of 50 books highlighting the greatest works of the western world. For that reason it is easy to find.

An open mind is unable to ignore anything.

The sign that you are lacking of this trait.

 

[tony1]

*Originally posted by Markx
You don't answer any one's question.*

What's to answer?
James R proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is one of those people who doesn't actually think.
I stand in awe of his debating prowess, and I have no answer left.
I am fully convinced.

*I asked you do you believe if Jesus was God and you said he is God's word and now then when I gave you explanation from Quran you simply ditched it by saying it " I said he is God's Word". Now care to explain it??? What is that suppose to mean?*

1. The Quran doesn't explain it.
2. Jesus is the word that God spoke...

For example, God said "let there be light."
Jesus was that word.

For by him (the word) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(Colossians 1:16, KJV).

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (who is the word spoken by God)
(Ephesians 3:9, KJV).

*Then you said, " Real money is very "close" to counterfeit money." Now how can counterfit is better then original?? In each and every sense.*

It isn't, since the Quran isn't even a counterfeit.
It's like a hand-drawn facsimile.
Basically, it's like Muhammad saying, "See, I can write a Bible, too."

*I really don't care if you have read the Quran or not neither does it matter if you believe in or not. But care to tell us what do you read??*

The Quran?

*and what is the base of your belief??*

Having read the Quran, and of course, the Bible.

*Twisted words, are nice but I think lots of people here are noticing that you are simply avoiding any direct answers.*

Of course, I'm noticing that people can't understand simple answers.

*But it is all good. I hope you can explain us what is ur belief and how would you back it up. *

Jesus is Lord.
Jesus is the word of God.

Backup is a piece of cake.
His word is true.

*Originally posted by Teg
I do not doubt what I observe.*

I think I may have said it before...
How about a nice friendlly game of 3-card monte?
I'll deal.

*Evolution: I observe that two creatures are very similar in appearance and behavior. I find a fossil record of a creature similar to both. Before the fossil record, the first two are not present, only some time after they appear. Two explanations: Tony1's god created two creatures and destroyed one. Or the only rational explanation: where once one species existed it has now branched into two very similar creatures seperated by land boundries or experiences.*

Right about there I note your total and complete inability to separate observation from fantasy, and the total inability to reason.

For starters, your comment about "before" as related to the fossil record isn't something you observed.
You actually only observed "under."
Hence, I question your ability to observe AND your ability to reason.

*I never said that comprehension would be easy.*

Essentially I did, though.
That's why you're working so hard.

*You know nothing of the theory of evolution. How can you attack something you have never read.*

I read plenty.
Not only that, I got much higher marks in school than you did, and I was tested on the theory of evolution the same as every one else.

*It was included in Encyclopedia Brittanica's set of 50 books highlighting the greatest works of the western world.*

ooo.
I'm at a loss for words. Oh wait! I've got one.
So?

Besides I got the set called the "Great Books" when I was a little kid, and I read all of them several times.

*The sign that you are lacking of this trait.*

Thank you for noticing.
I like to think that I can ignore useless stuff.
Unfortunately, you are in the position of not being able to ignore the ToE for the useless piece of trash it is.

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by tony1
*Originally posted by Markx
You don't answer any one's question.*

What's to answer?
James R proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is one of those people who doesn't actually think.
I stand in awe of his debating prowess, and I have no answer left.
I am fully convinced.

*I asked you do you believe if Jesus was God and you said he is God's word and now then when I gave you explanation from Quran you simply ditched it by saying it " I said he is God's Word". Now care to explain it??? What is that suppose to mean?*

1. The Quran doesn't explain it.
2. Jesus is the word that God spoke...

For example, God said "let there be light."
Jesus was that word.

For by him (the word) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(Colossians 1:16, KJV).

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (who is the word spoken by God)
(Ephesians 3:9, KJV).

*Then you said, " Real money is very "close" to counterfeit money." Now how can counterfit is better then original?? In each and every sense.*

It isn't, since the Quran isn't even a counterfeit.
It's like a hand-drawn facsimile.
Basically, it's like Muhammad saying, "See, I can write a Bible, too."

I really don't care if you have read the Quran or not neither does it matter if you believe in or not. But care to tell us what do you read??

The Quran?

*and what is the base of your belief??*

Having read the Quran, and of course, the Bible.

*Twisted words, are nice but I think lots of people here are noticing that you are simply avoiding any direct answers.*

Of course, I'm noticing that people can't understand simple answers.

*But it is all good. I hope you can explain us what is ur belief and how would you back it up. *

Jesus is Lord.
Jesus is the word of God.

Backup is a piece of cake.
His word is true.\

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I gave you quotes from Bible and from Jesus's own saying If it wasn't in English I could say you are having hard time understanding what Jesus said, But fortunatley it is all in English, Funny how hard it is for you to understand it. Now look again what Jesus said, And think about it whta he was trying to tell.


Let me repeate again What was Jesus trying to tell People like you even back then, you existed.



Anyone can call God "Father" according to the Bible

"I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." (John 20:17 RSV 1952)
Jesus, at the end of his mission, made it clear that God is not only his father, but father of all, and God of all, and even his own God whom he worshipped throughout his earthly career.
We cry, Abba, Father. (Romans 8:15 KJV 1611)
Here the writer is Paul and he made it clear that anyone can address God as "Father."

Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:

". . . Do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. (Matthew 23:1,9 NIV 1984)

According to Matthew, Jesus taught everyone to call God 'Father'. He said to them:


"This, then, is how you should pray:
'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name . . .' " (Matthew 6:9 NIV)


Jesus made it clear that he is not God

"Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." (Mark 10:18)

A man had ran up and knelt before Jesus and called him "Good Teacher." Jesus used the opportunity to make it clear to people that they must not praise him more than a human being deserves to be praised.

Jesus depends on God for Authority: God depends on no one

"I can do nothing of my own authority" (John 5:30)
"I do as the Father has commanded me." (John 14:31 RSV)

Needless to say, God does not receive commands from anyone.

"The words that I say to you I do not speak of my own authority." (John 14:10 RSV)

"I do nothing of my own authority but speak thus as the Father has taught me." (John 8:28 RSV)


God has full authority, and full knowledge. He cannot be taught, but He teaches.



Jesus is not Equal to "The Father"

"The Father is greater than I." (John 14:28 RSV)

People forget this and they say that Jesus is equal to the Father. Whom should we believe--Jesus or the people?

Jesus Does Not Know Everything

Speaking of the Last Day, Jesus said:

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." (Matthew 24:36)

Did Jesus Raise Himself up?

God raised him up. (Acts 2:24)
Jesus did not have power to raise himself up. God had to raise him up, as the author of Acts says.

Jesus prayed to God: God prays to no one

"Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what thou wilt." (Mark 14:32)


Jesus fell on his face and prayed to God, begging God to save him from crucifixion. This also shows that Jesus had a will different from God's will. The writers of Matthew, Mark, and Luke tell us that it was Jesus's wish to be saved from crucifixion, but it was God's will to let the crucifixion take place.

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46)




Jesus referred to as Servant of God

"Behold my servant whom I have chosen." (Matthew 12:18 In this passage God calls Jesus His servant)
The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus. (Acts 3:13)
For truly in this city there were gathered together against thy holy servant Jesus. . . (Acts 4:27)
Everyone, except for God, are God's servants. Jesus, too, is God's servant.

Who was real Worker of Miracles?

Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (Acts 2:22 KJV)

People say that since Jesus worked many miracles, he must be God. But here we see that God did the miracles; Jesus was the instrument God used to accomplish His work. Jesus was a man whom God approved of. This means he was a righteous man. A messenger.

Jesus cannot guarantee positions

"To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father" (Matthew 20:23)

Therefore if we want to secure our position with God in the life hereafter we must turn to God and ask Him.

"A Misunderstood saying"

I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)

People like to quote this saying, but they forget the following saying:
John 17:11 Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. \



Very hard to understand??? Jesus repeatdly trying to tell to dumb people who really is and yet still you don't get it. Now let me tell you why Jesus cannot be God.

Let's see some aspects of your so called God of yours.






Numerous quotations from the Bible are given below to prove that Jesus neither SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD, nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. He can, therefore, NEVER be GOD. These quotations are from the Bible without comment, because the Bible speaks for itself! TO SAY THAT JESUS IS GOD OR SON OF GOD IS NOT ONLY A MOCKERY OF GODHOOD, BUT BLASPHEMY OF THE LOWEST ORDER AND AND INSULT TO THE INTELLIGENCE OF MEN! (All quotations from the Bible are given from the Authorized Version. All the headings and subheadings I have referred to Jesus as "God" in inverted commas in order to show the ABSURDITY of the claim that Jesus is God!)


THE BIRTH OF "GOD"

"God" was created from the seed of David: "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the SEED of David according to the flesh." (Romans, 1:3) "God" was the fruit of the loins of David: "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne." (Acts, 2:30)

The Ancestors of "God":

"The generations of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matthew, 1:1)

The Sex of "God":

"And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus." (Luke, 2:21)

How Mary Conceived and Delivered "God"
Mary conceived Jesus like any other woman:

"The days were accomplished that she should be delivered," (Luke, 2:6) which means that she went through all the normal stages of pregnancy. Nor was her delivery any different from other expectant mothers: "And she being with child cried, travelling in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Revelation, 12:2)

"God" Sucked The Paps of a Woman:

"And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked." (Luke, 11:27)

The Country of Origin of "God":

"Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king. (Matthew, 2:1)

The Occupation of "God":

"Jesus was a carpenter by trade." (Mark, 6:3), "and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew, 13:55)

The Transport of "God":

"Behold, thy king cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass." (Matthew, 21:5) "And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon." (John, 12:14)

The Wining and Dining of "God":

"The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." (Matthew, 11:9; Luke, 7:34)

The Poverty of "God":

"And Jesus saith unto him, the foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (Matthew, 8:20)

The Meagre Possessions of "God":

[/B] "Shoes of Jesus" (Luke, 3:16),

"Garments and coat of Jesus" (John, 19:23)

"God" Was a Devout Jew:


"And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." (Mark, 1:35)

"God" Was a Loyal Subject:

Jesus was a good citizen, he was loyal to Caesar. He said: "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Matthew, 22:21)

He paid his tax regularly. (Matthew, 17:24-27)

THE FAMILY OF "GOD"

"God" Was the Son of Joseph:

"Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, we have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph" (John, 1:45)

Brothers and Brothers-in-law of "God":

"And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence hath this man all these things? (Matthew, 13:54-56)

THE DEVELOPMENT OF "GOD"Spiritual Development
of "God":

"And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom." (Luke, 2:40) Mental,

Physical and Moral Development of "God":

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man." (Luke, 2:52)

"God" Was 12 Years Old When His Parents Took Him to Jerusalem:

"Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast." (Luke, 2:41-42)



Powerless "God" (Jesus) said:

"I can of mine own self do nothing." (John, 5:30)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Time. Jesus said: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark, 13:32)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Season:
"And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry: and seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet." (Mark, 11:12-13)

"God" Was Unlettered:
"Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?" (John, 7:14-15)

"God" Learnt Through Experience:

"Learned he obedience by the things which he sufered." (Hebrews, 5:8)


THE TEMPTING OF "GOD"The Devil Tempted "God" For 40 Days:


"And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan." (Mark, 1:12-13) The Devil Tempted

"God" Continuously:

"And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season." (Luke, 4:13) Like the Sinners, "God" Was Tempted In All Things: "But (he) was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews, 4:15)

True God Cannot be Tempted With Evil:

"God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James, 1:13) Only The Ungodly Are Tempted With Evil: "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." (James, 1:14)

THE MISSION OF "GOD"The Confession and Repentance of "God":

before the beginning of his public ministry: "Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist" (Matthew, 3:13), "which signified the confession of sins" (Matthew, 3:6), "and repentance from sins (Matthew, 3:11).

"God" Did Not Come to Save the Sinners:

"And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them." (Mark, 4:10-12)

THE RACIAL "GOD""God" Was a Tribal Jew:

"The lion of the tribe of Juda." (Revelation, 5:5)"God" Came For The Jews Only:

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 15:24)

Racial Discrimination of "God":

"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 10:5-6)


According to "God", The Gentiles Are Dogs:

"It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." (matthew, 15:26) The Kingdom of "God": And he (Jesus) shall reign over THE HOUSE OF JACOB for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." (Luke, 1:33)


The Titles of "God":

"The king of the Jews" (Matthew, 2:2), "The king of Israel" (John, 1:49; 12:13) A "GOD" UNLIKE THE GODA Hungry "God": "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered." (Matthew 4:2), "Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered." (Matthew, 21:18), "and on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark, 11:12)\
A Thirsty "God": "(He) saith, I thirst." (John, 19:28)A

Sleepy "God":
"He was asleep." (Matthew, 8:24), "He fell asleep" (Luke, 8:23), "And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow." (Mark, 4:38)

A Weary "God":
Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well." (John, 4:6) A Groaning "God": "He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled." (John, 11:33), "Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave." (John, 11:38) A


Weeping "God": "Jesus wept." (John, 11:35) A Sorrowing "God": "And (he) began to be sorrowful and very heavy." (Matthew 26:37). "Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death." (Matthew, 26:38) A

Hysterical "God":
"And (he) began to be soreamazed and to be very heavy." (Mark, 14:33) A Weak "God": "And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him." (Luke, 22:43)

THE WARRING "GOD"The Strong-Arm Method of "God":

"And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought." (Luke, 19:45). "And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, and found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: and when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables." (John, 2:13-15)


The "God" of War: Jesus said:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew, 10:34) The Sabre-Rattling "God": Jesus said: "And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke, 22:36)


The "GOD" ON THE RUN"God" Was Panic-Stricken: "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." (John, 7:1) "God" Walked in Fear of the Jews: "Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews." (John, 11:53-54) "God" Has Shown a Clean Pair of Heels: "Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand." (John, 10:39) "God" Fled in Disguise: "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." (John, 8:59)

THE CAPTURE OF "GOD"

A Friend Betrayed the Secret Hiding Place of "God": "And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus off-times resorted thither with his disciples. Judas then, having received a band of man and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons." (John, 18:2-3) "God" Was Arrested, Bound and Led Away: "Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him, and led him away." (John, 18:12-13)

"God" Was Humiliated:

"And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him. And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face." (Luke, 22:63-64). "Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands." (Matthew, 26:67)

"God" Was Defenseless:

"One of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand", he said: "Why smitest thou me?" (John, 18:22-23)

"God" Was Condemned to Death:

"And they all condemned him to be guilty of death." (Mark, 14:64). "They answered and said, he is guilty of death." (Matthew, 26:66)

The Dumb and Docile "God": "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth." (Acts, 8:32)

THE SUPPOSED END OF "GOD"The Dying "God":

"And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost." (Mark, 15:37) The "God" That Was Supposed Dead and Defunct: "Christ died." (Romans, 5:6). "He was dead". (John, 19:33)

The Supposed Corpse of "God": "he (Joseph of Arimathaea) went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered." (Matthew, 27:58)

The Shroud of "God": "And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth." (Matthew, 27:59)

The Orbituary of The Late And Lamented "God":
"Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, certainly this was a righteous man." (Luke, 23:47)

According to the quotations of the Bible given above, I find that Jesus did neither SHARE THE NATURE OF GOD nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. He is, therefore, definitely NOT God! Either you must prove that Jesus is God, or you must admit that you are a a polytheist, . WITH ALL THE TRICKS AND VERBAL LEGERDEMAIN OF your qutations, You WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT JESUS IS GOD!!


Or you can cry and repeate your two or three verses and deny all others. Sorry to make it so leanthy but you seems to be lost in your own world. If this is not even enoug I can dig up some more. Oh and by the way if you believe in Bible then please read again since I didn't make all that up. It was from Bible. Now if you still think jesus is LORD or GOD then you are wrong. Now also let me clear this up. Quran did mention that jesus was God's word. I only read it once but I know what is in there unlike you. You might have it but you have never read it. It is funny that you think Quran is self made. LOL I can only laugh about it.

We should start a new thread regarding Holy books and yes we have to inculde Bible in there

 

[Taken]

AMEN!

 

[tony1]

*Originally posted by Markx
According to the quotations of the Bible given above, I find that Jesus did neither SHARE THE NATURE OF GOD nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. He is, therefore, definitely NOT God! Either you must prove that Jesus is God, or you must admit that you are a a polytheist, . WITH ALL THE TRICKS AND VERBAL LEGERDEMAIN OF your qutations, You WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT JESUS IS GOD!! *

Hey, I've got no problem admitting that I'm a polytheist.
There must be trillions of gods and there is one God.

Jesus is the Word of God.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
(Revelation 19:13, KJV).

*Or you can cry and repeate your two or three verses and deny all others. Sorry to make it so leanthy but you seems to be lost in your own world.*

It's lengthy because you weren't listening to me.
I get all that.

Where did I say that Jesus was exactly the same as God, anyway?

*Now if you still think jesus is LORD or GOD then you are wrong.*

Nope, I'm right.
Jesus is Lord.

*Now also let me clear this up. Quran did mention that jesus was God's word. I only read it once but I know what is in there unlike you.*

What do you mean you only read it once but you know what is in there?
I've read the two versions of the Koran several times each.

*You might have it but you have never read it. It is funny that you think Quran is self made. LOL I can only laugh about it.*

Self-made?
You mean Muhammad didn't write it?
Does anyone else know this?

*Originally posted by Taken
AMEN!*

Did someone tell youi to put a handful of marbles in your mouth when you started going to church?
And did they tell you to take a marble out each time you ignored the Bible?

Because if that's what happened, you lost your marbles a long time ago.

Here I was, thinking you were a whale-worshipping Hindu/Buddhist.
Now I see you're a Muslim, too.

Why were you even bothering to pretend you were a Christian?

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by tony1
*Originally posted by Markx

*Originally posted by Taken
AMEN!*


Here I was, thinking you were a whale-worshipping Hindu/Buddhist.
Now I see you're a Muslim, too.

Why were you even bothering to pretend you were a Christian?

Oh so now Taken is Muslim??..... . lol.

Tony1, I really would like to get another or different Version of Quran since I have never had it. Please tell me who is it by or you can give info regarding both. Like I said before I have seen only one. Also since you said that Quran didn't explain who jesus was can you tell me what did Quran said about Jesus???. As far as I know Quran mention that he was a messenger of God and he brought the message( word ) of God.