Bible Question.

StarOfEight said:
South, doesn't he apologize for the flood, or at the very least, promise to never do it again as a part of the covenant?
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He actually does. :eek:
He says He resent that He had to do it, and He says that He would never have to do it again.

Genesis 9:11
"11 "I establish My covenant with you; and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth." "

Genesis 8:21
"21 The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done. "

Isaiah 54:9
"9 For this is like the days of Noah to Me, When I swore that the waters of Noah Would not flood the earth again; So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you Nor will I rebuke you. "

There is another one, but I cannot find it right now... :/
 
SnakeLord said:
But that makes you no more part of the trinity than it does him. Very often you hear people say jesus is within them or whatever, but that doesn't make you god/or a part of god. By that same token, jesus saying god was in him doesn't imply in any way that he is actually god himself - unless you think you're jesus?
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That is an accurate perception of the scriptures.

All we need to do is point out this:
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good
but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
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Case closed.
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That is also correct. I would like to point out the following scriptures:

Luke 9:47-48
47 But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side,
48 and said to them, "Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great."

Luke 9:51-56
51 When the days were approaching for His ascension, He was determined to go to Jerusalem;
52 and He sent messengers on ahead of Him, and they went and entered a village of the Samaritans to make arrangements for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem.
54 When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
55 But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;
56 for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."] And they went on to another village.

I had another good one, but unfortunately I cannot find it....

It is not a bad idea to consider Jesus in a more human way. I mean... if Jesus was God, wouldn't it be a hypocrasy for God to ask us to be like Him? I mean... we all know we can't be perfect. Maybe the humanity of Jesus serves to show us what is possible what we can do through Him, if we believe in Him.

Besides, Jesus can't be God because Jesus was a body. Christ was the spirit and only Christ can be considered equal to God or in union with God (i.e. God within me, and I within Him).

And where in the whole New Testament or even in the whole Bible we see the word "Trinity"...? ;)

Just a thought...
 
But, please, don't get me wrong. I do think there's unity between God, Christ and us. What I dispute is our inssitance to put all the responsability on God's or Jesus' shoulder. I mean.... think about it. Jesus already gave us a hint about the relationship between us and God. He is our Father, and we are His sons, right? Think about how you treat your children. Don't you care about them? Don't you try to protect them? But at the same time, don't you want them to grow and to become independent? I believe God wants the same things for us. ;)

Eph3sians 3:14
"14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,
16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God. "
 
How amusing that you forget that He tells, "I and the Father are one."
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Funnily enough, David Koresh said exactly the same thing. What is your point?

However, as everyone seems happy enough to quote scripture, let us take a look at what is written..

Hebrews 2:9 'But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honour because he suffered death'.

So basically, he was just human - like us - until he gave his life... but then while he was alive he would have been in no position to state he was god, because he didn't inherit his crown until he'd given his life. Thus when he says "I and the father are one", he is actually lying. He would at that point have been a mere human.

Hebrews 2:17 'For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to god.'

Again this shows that during his life he was nothing greater than human. In saying he and god were one, he was lying. It would only be after his death that he would inherit any position/status above that of a human. The status he would achieve isn't even that of "god part 2 of 3", but mere high priest which has been the duty of others before him, (melchizedek). It is not a position unique to him, but one that has been handed out before to others as the following will also show:

Hebrews 5:1 'Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters related to god, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people. No-one takes this honour upon himself; he must be called by god, just as aaron was. So christ also did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest..

So you see, jesus shares a position that has been held by others before him, but while on earth he was nothing more than a simple human who did not inherit his position of high priesthood until after his death. His sacrifice was his life, and as such he then inherited the position of high priest - which as god says to him: "you are a priest forever". God doesn't say to him "you are god. you and I are one", because he's not. He has simply inherited a position that has been held by others. He doesn't even make just a passing comment but seems completely serious:

"The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind; You are a priest for ever."

So.. Jesus is a priest forever, (according to god). Right after that in Hebrews 7:23 we see..

'Now there have been many of those priests.."

Jesus doesn't hold a unique position. The only difference is explained in Hebrews 7, that the other priests deaths prevented them from continuing in office. It also explains that unlike the other priests he does not have to make daily sacrifices because he sacrificed himself and as such was made perfect.

So you see this all goes against his statement that he and god were one and the same, because while he was alive, he was just a human, and after death he's just a priest.

It's kind of like you trying to make a complaint to a company. First you speak to the girl in customer suport, then you speak to a supervisor, and then finally you get to speak to the manager.

Jesus is not god by any means, but is merely the supervisor who you need to go through on route to god. While in this case it would show jesus is a required step to salvation, he most certainly is not god and should not be worshipped as one.

Basically you've thrown aside gods command that you must only worship him, and have moved on to worship his high priest instead - who merely holds the same position as many others such as Aaron and Melchizedek- and probably the priest at your local church.

Still, as Jesus is a priest forever, we know he'll always like children..
 
Jesus was never a high priest, or even a lower one. He was a carpenter by trade.
" I and the Father are one"
this signifies that you cannot be praising God without praising Jesus.
 
Enigma'07 said:
Jesus was never a high priest, or even a lower one. He was a carpenter by trade. "I and the Father are one"
this signifies that you cannot be praising God without praising Jesus.
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*************
M*W: According to Ralph Ellis in Jesus: Last of the Pharaohs -- The True History of Religion Revealed, Edfu Books, Dorset, England 1999:

"Jesus was educated (in the city of his grandfather, Heli) in Heliopolis, where he learned all the wise ways of the oldest of all religions: the movements of the stars and the ways of the cosmos. He became proficient in sand-writing, one of the ancient skills of magic. (B29) He became the "cornerstone," a carpenter. Now this has been a very misleading term down the centuries: Wy should a prince of the realm be honoured as being a mere carpenter? It was perhaps, a fortuitous mistranslation for the scribes, as they strove to distance Jesus from his real roots, but the position and status of Jesus is still clear from looking closely at the texts. The first clue comes in the Coptic translation of (the word) "carpenter," where Jesus is called the "Naggar," meaning either an artisan (carpenter) or an educated man."

"In Greek, the occupation is defined as "tekton" in the Gospel of Matthew, a word that can abe translated as "builder." However, there is a better translation. Jesus is being called an artisan, a builder and an educated man all at the same time. There is a profession that encompasses all these elements; an "architect." Indeed, one can still see the etymological traces of the word "tekton" in the modern word "architect" (literally meaning, master-builder or master-mason).(B30) This is a much more logical "craft" and title for Jesus, than a mere carpenter."

"This process can be taken one step further, for Aaron (Akhenaton), a direct ancestor of Jesus, was known as the "Greatest of all Architects." The true position of Jesus is becoming clearer: he was an architect, a cornerstone and a prince, in which case this not (the) literal profession of architect that was being referred to here, but the symbolic position of someone descended from the designer of the cosmos. The highest of all the deities is known as the "Architect of the Universe" in Masonic circles and there is direct evidence that Jesus was also an architect, a theological Mason, rather than a secular mason."

B29 - John 8:6
B30 - Jesus Papyrus, C, Thiede, M. D'Ancona, p 117.
 
I don't think your using an accurate scource. Jesus was born an ordinary Jew in a ordinary occupation. He remained thin way until his thirties, when he began his ministry.
 
That is incomprehensible to think God "relents". Have you so soon forgotten the words of scripture?

Numbers 23

19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
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Genesis 6:6
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Oliver,
God is not a cruel creator, therefore, ther is no scripture where He apologizes for it.
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See above (Gen6:6).
 
Your minterpreting it. It states that God was sorry that He created man, not sorry for being cruel.
 
He was sorry because they were diobeying him, doing the oposite of what He created them to do.

It's like if you try to do something nice for someone, but they ignore your kindness and start insulting you. You regret trying to do something nice for them.
 
He was sorry because they were diobeying him, doing the oposite of what He created them to do.
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A large part of the question is.. "why?"

If my wife tells me to do something, I listen to her mainly because I love and respect her. Although love can be found in the strangest of places, with the strangest of people - respect is something that must be earned, whether you're the boss of a company or god himself.

We are only humans, and obviously in keeping with gods desired plan - have many faults. He would, as god, know all of this in advance- and as such would have nothing to be sorry about - because he created us the way we are. He could be sorry that man did not respect him enough to obey him- but then it would stand to reason that he hasn't earned that respect in the first place.

This isn't much of a surprise when you look at the way he conducted himself throughout biblical history. So dire were his methods that even many of his angels left him in search of something better.

We can only glean so much from a book, but without actually seeing him and really learning about him and his persona- there is no place with which to bow at his feet, and no place to show any worship towards him.

Our creation does not count as enough to warrant worship, love or respect. All of which need to come separately from that action.

Further to that, he's also the jealous type..

Exodus 34:14 Do not worship any other god, for the lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous god.

I find that when I'm jealous because my wife is talking to another guy, or because my friend has a better car or whatever.. that love and respect go swiftly downhill. Perhaps he needs to "remove his demons" first if he wants all-round love and respect.
 
that's the beautiful thing about God, He isn't like us. If just creating us, and letting us life after we disobeyed Him, then maybe the fact that He allowed HIs perfect Son to die will. Think about it. His Son did nothing wrong and yet He loved us so much He chose to take the blake for us.

Think about it this way: You are a judge. You have a friend named Scott, and a son named Josh. you and your son are very close, he would do anything you asked him. Scott and you are very close, you have lunch together every day. then, one day scott's not there. you call him on his cell and stuff and just can't seem to reach him. later that day, you find out that scott killed his wife. fast forward a couple days. you are the judge at scott's trial. you come to the conclusion that some one must die. Scoot is the one that commited the crime, but you love him so much that you decide that if Jake, who has never killed anyone, dies, scott can walk free. and so jake dies and you and scott can have a relationship together.

would you offer your son? I'm not sure I would. The amazing thing is that God did this. He offered His son for our sake.
 
Enigma'07 said:
that's the beautiful thing about God, He isn't like us. If just creating us, and letting us life after we disobeyed Him, then maybe the fact that He allowed HIs perfect Son to die will. Think about it. His Son did nothing wrong and yet He loved us so much He chose to take the blake for us.

Think about it this way: You are a judge. You have a friend named Scott, and a son named Josh. you and your son are very close, he would do anything you asked him. Scott and you are very close, you have lunch together every day. then, one day scott's not there. you call him on his cell and stuff and just can't seem to reach him. later that day, you find out that scott killed his wife. fast forward a couple days. you are the judge at scott's trial. you come to the conclusion that some one must die. Scoot is the one that commited the crime, but you love him so much that you decide that if Jake, who has never killed anyone, dies, scott can walk free. and so jake dies and you and scott can have a relationship together.

would you offer your son? I'm not sure I would. The amazing thing is that God did this. He offered His son for our sake.
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My religion is different than yours and i dont agree with everything you say but i do admit you do represent Christanity well :) God Bless and peace unto you
 
that's the beautiful thing about God, He isn't like us.
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In what respect? We are, after all, supposedly made in the image, in the likeness of god. Now it can either mean we are made to look like him - which would state that god is a hairy bipedal human looking being or that we share his traits and characteristics. The latter is fully supported by biblical texts:

Anger, wrath, jealousy, hate, love, sorrow etc etc.

We must then question where our long list of flaws have come from. We most certainly didn't create them, and it would only seem pertinent to state that those flaws were created by the creator. If he has a problem with it, he should have created us differently to how we are. If your response would be that he lets us have free will, then you must also accept that he is in little position to get involved when we excercise our "god given" right to free will.

We have been given basic rules of course- such as: Don't kill others, don't steal, don't be queer, sacrifice a cow on Tuesdays, and don't worship anyone other than him, (which funnily enough means some 5+ billion people are breaking his commandment), but even here the religious peoples of the world would claim it's peoples choice. Regretfully, they still do not understand that some of the rules presented are not down to choice. For instance, people do not choose to be gay-- and yet god finds it "detestable", which leaves us asking why he created people that way in the first place.

It's like making a robot and programming its code to swear every 15 seconds and then turn round and say you find swearing detestable. In other words: pure stupidity.

His Son did nothing wrong and yet He loved us so much He chose to take the blake for us
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The world's biggest cop-out. In short, jesus is nothing more than a scapegoat or fall guy so you lot can sleep easier at night knowing your sins are forgiven. It's complete nonsense. Accept responsibility for once instead of passing on to a guy who got killed while pleading with his father to save his life. He didn't choose, he was forced into a position where he got killed, and some of his very last words were asking his "father" why he'd forsaken him. And with his death, a million people sighed relief and realised they were completely blame free for every wrong they'd ever done.

would you offer your son? I'm not sure I would. The amazing thing is that God did this. He offered His son for our sake.
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Oh c'mon, it's a farce. Sure I'd offer my son, (if like god, I knew he'd be up, alive and walking a couple of days later). What was sacrificed, what was given? How is it amazing that god kills his son knowing damn well he hasn't killed anyone because his son is up and smiling this time next Sunday? I'm sorry.. did someone give their life? I don't think so..

If you are one of these believers that accepts that jesus is god, then the whole affair is even more of a joke. It's like god temporarily killed himself, and pre-programmed himself to pop back into existence a little while after.

Either way, nobody died.

Hell, I'd happily kill myself in the middle of Trafalgar Square and claim everyone is now sin free if I knew I'd be alive again tommorrow. I'd even make a regular weekly habit out of it.
 
Snakelord


All we need to do is point out this:

"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good
but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
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Case closed.
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Case closed? Not really :) Lets look at the scripture.

Matthew 18
18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 19So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 20You know the commandments: "Do not commit adultery,' "Do not murder,' "Do not steal,' "Do not bear false witness,' "Honor your father and your mother."' 21And he said, "All these things I have kept from my youth." 22So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 23But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.

The ruler did not know the nature of Jesus He saw him as a teacher, (rabbi) He saw Jesus as a man. Jesus saw this and corrected him in telling him that No man is Good. Of course Jesus was Good But the ruler did not know that Jesus was the Messiah.

All praise The Ancient Of Days
 
If that were the case, he would have said.. "Why do you call me teacher?"

No?

Instead he said, "why do you call me good?", implying that he is not good.

Failing that, read my post above where the one and only god clearly states the position of jesus.
 
Medicine Woman said:
*************
M*W: According to Ralph Ellis in Jesus: Last of the Pharaohs -- The True History of Religion Revealed, Edfu Books, Dorset, England 1999:

"Jesus was educated (in the city of his grandfather, Heli) in Heliopolis, where he learned all the wise ways of the oldest of all religions: the movements of the stars and the ways of the cosmos. He became proficient in sand-writing, one of the ancient skills of magic. (B29) He became the "cornerstone," a carpenter. Now this has been a very misleading term down the centuries: Wy should a prince of the realm be honoured as being a mere carpenter? It was perhaps, a fortuitous mistranslation for the scribes, as they strove to distance Jesus from his real roots, but the position and status of Jesus is still clear from looking closely at the texts. The first clue comes in the Coptic translation of (the word) "carpenter," where Jesus is called the "Naggar," meaning either an artisan (carpenter) or an educated man."

"In Greek, the occupation is defined as "tekton" in the Gospel of Matthew, a word that can abe translated as "builder." However, there is a better translation. Jesus is being called an artisan, a builder and an educated man all at the same time. There is a profession that encompasses all these elements; an "architect." Indeed, one can still see the etymological traces of the word "tekton" in the modern word "architect" (literally meaning, master-builder or master-mason).(B30) This is a much more logical "craft" and title for Jesus, than a mere carpenter."

"This process can be taken one step further, for Aaron (Akhenaton), a direct ancestor of Jesus, was known as the "Greatest of all Architects." The true position of Jesus is becoming clearer: he was an architect, a cornerstone and a prince, in which case this not (the) literal profession of architect that was being referred to here, but the symbolic position of someone descended from the designer of the cosmos. The highest of all the deities is known as the "Architect of the Universe" in Masonic circles and there is direct evidence that Jesus was also an architect, a theological Mason, rather than a secular mason."

B29 - John 8:6
B30 - Jesus Papyrus, C, Thiede, M. D'Ancona, p 117.
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Why is this "far more logical"? You are grasping for air...

EACH time there is something about Christianity, you just have to..
:(
 
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