Bible contradictions

[SkinWalker]

What reason is there to believe that the magical quality of "prophecy" actually exists? Many very reputable researchers have investigated the magical and supernatural claims of humanity ranging from intercessory prayer to esp and none of these has been validated. There are no demonstrably actual "prophecy" (another word for precognition/esp), but there is much evidence of humans willing to out-right lie and deceive to support their beliefs or the pre-conceived conclusions that are included in their deluded worldviews.

If there is evidence for prophecy in biblical mythology, I challenge the believers to reveal which they find to be the best examples of it? Which one can be independently demonstrated to be a clear prediction of the future?

 

[JimHR]

What reason is there to believe that the magical quality of "prophecy" actually exists? Many very reputable researchers have investigated the magical and supernatural claims of humanity ranging from intercessory prayer to esp and none of these has been validated. There are no demonstrably actual "prophecy" (another word for precognition/esp), but there is much evidence of humans willing to out-right lie and deceive to support their beliefs or the pre-conceived conclusions that are included in their deluded worldviews.

If there is evidence for prophecy in biblical mythology, I challenge the believers to reveal which they find to be the best examples of it? Which one can be independently demonstrated to be a clear prediction of the future?

How long SkinWalker will you put your faith and trust in other men? Put your faith in God and try His Word.

 

[JimHR]

I have made simple attempts at Bible translation and what I found was even more frustrating. Very often, a single word can be translated 2, 3, 6, 10 different ways, with the result that comprehension can actually get worse not better. You just end up picking the meaning you like! But, is it the right meaning?

Who knows!

He gave us the Bible and there is only one true Christianity in It. Don't let any "Christian" religion deviate you from that truth. You must be born-again SetiAlpha6. A child born into a Chinese family cannot understand English. But a child born into an English-speaking family can. This is like the spiritual rebirth. We must be "born" again into the spiritual light. You must become conscious of your sin. Ask yourself if you have keep the Ten Commandmants. God is holy and pure, wickedness will not dwell in His presence.

There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ John 3:1-7

This is why His followers can understand Scripture perfectly and those who aren't dont.

SetiAlpha6 I am willing to tell you anything that has been revealed to me about the faith. Please remember though that this is the faith of the Bible alone.

 

[SkinWalker]

How long SkinWalker will you put your faith and trust in other men? Put your faith in God and try His Word.

Preaching is against forum rules. Take that nonsense elsewhere please. I'll let it go this time, but future preaching will be deleted.

No response for my challenge then? I am more apt to put trust in other people (who are real) than you god (who appears to exist only in your imagination).

 

[SkinWalker]

He gave us the Bible and there is only one true Christianity in It. Don't let any "Christian" religion deviate you from that truth. You must be born-again SetiAlpha6. A child born into a Chinese family cannot understand English. But a child born into an English-speaking family can. This is like the spiritual rebirth. We must be "born" again into the spiritual light. You must become conscious of your sin. Ask yourself if you have keep the Ten Commandmants. God is holy and pure, wickedness will not dwell in His presence.

There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ John 3:1-7

This is why His followers can understand Scripture perfectly and those who aren't dont.

SetiAlpha6 I am willing to tell you anything that has been revealed to me about the faith. Please remember though that this is the faith of the Bible alone.

Where this post isn't just preaching (against forum rules), it is merely nonsense -a complete and cowardly cop-out. The fallacious suggestion that only the believer can "know" your god's word utter BS. I might just as easily say that only those trained in the social sciences, such as anthropology and psychology can truly be expected to understand the "word" believers pretend belongs to a god. And that understanding is one of human behavior and propensity to believe or exhibit credulousness.

The various cults of christianity clearly have built in safe-guards to keep the deluded in their delusion and prevent them from opening their minds to the world, taking on a genuinely critical perspective.

Please don't use this forum as a platform to preach. If your posts disappear or are edited, this is the likely reason.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

How long SkinWalker will you put your faith and trust in other men? Put your faith in God and try His Word.

JimHR,

If SkinWalker were to "try His Word" as you are asking him to do, it would be an exercise in futility, he would not be able to understand it, according to your own view, because he has not yet been "born" again. According to you, someone must be "born" again before they can understand the Bible, not after. Therefore, you seem to be asking that he read and understand "His Word", while it must surely still be impossible for him to even do so. Pardon me, but your own mind seems to be in contradiction.

It is like asking someone who is blind to see before they are healed. It seems kind of cruel to me. :bugeye:

Please explain to me how it can be that someone cannot understand the "Word of God" until they are "born" again but they also cannot be "born" again until they understand the "Word of God".

Thank You!

(P.S. - SkinWalker, I personally do not think that you are blind in any way. I am just using you as an example in an attempt to make a point. Thanks!)

 

[SetiAlpha6]

SetiAlpha6 I am willing to tell you anything that has been revealed to me about the faith. Please remember though that this is the faith of the Bible alone.

Great! I am looking forward to dialogue with you! I am sure I will learn something in the process.

What would you like to start with?

This is why His followers can understand Scripture perfectly and those who aren't dont.

You have claimed that you understand the Scriptures perfectly. Are you really, really, really sure you want to make this claim?

Thank You!

 

[JimHR]

JimHR,

If SkinWalker were to "try His Word" as you are asking him to do, it would be an exercise in futility, he would not be able to understand it, according to your own view, because he has not yet been "born" again.

Please explain to me how it can be that someone cannot understand the "Word of God" until they are "born" again but they also cannot be "born" again until they understand the "Word of God".

Actually I said to put his faith in God first and then try reading the Bible. I take the time to write my posts. I hope that you would take the time to read them.

He can't read the Bible until he has put his faith in God first. He said he didn't understand the Bible and I was simply saying that's because he doesn't have faith in God.

It was just a simple answer to a simple question.

 

[JimHR]

Where this post isn't just preaching (against forum rules), it is merely nonsense -a complete and cowardly cop-out. The fallacious suggestion that only the believer can "know" your god's word utter BS. I might just as easily say that only those trained in the social sciences, such as anthropology and psychology can truly be expected to understand the "word" believers pretend belongs to a god. And that understanding is one of human behavior and propensity to believe or exhibit credulousness.

The various cults of christianity clearly have built in safe-guards to keep the deluded in their delusion and prevent them from opening their minds to the world, taking on a genuinely critical perspective.

Please don't use this forum as a platform to preach. If your posts disappear or are edited, this is the likely reason.

You know--for something that is "nonsense," "cowardly," "fallacious," "BS, "pretend,"cults,"in safe-guards," "deluded," "in their delusion and prevent them from opening their minds to the world"-- it sure did strike a nerve in your system.

Tell me when and where I ever used such demeaning names for your choice beliefs.

If you don't want an honest perspective from a real world Christian than so be it. You can sit here and discuss the tiniest little bit of random facts all you want--but as for me, I got bigger, more important puzzles to solve.

What's funny is you have no evidence to back up what you say--it hurts that you can't argue with what I say. You ask simple questions--I give simple faith based answers. If you can't handle it, is it really my problem?

I think you should cut the name calling for the true faith if I were to even decide to stay.

 

[JimHR]

Preaching is against forum rules. Take that nonsense elsewhere please. I'll let it go this time, but future preaching will be deleted.

No response for my challenge then? I am more apt to put trust in other people (who are real) than you god (who appears to exist only in your imagination).

So you don't want this to be at all personal?

 

[James R]

How do you know this?

Well, look at the four gospels in the New Testament, for example.

All were written years after the death of Jesus. Several of them copy each other in part. John was the last to be written; it is largely copied, except for a few parts added in to boost the new religion and fulfil prophecies in the Old Testament. For example, he invents a lineage for Jesus by which Jesus is descended from the line of David.

 

[JimHR]

What reason is there to believe that the magical quality of "prophecy" actually exists? Many very reputable researchers have investigated the magical and supernatural claims of humanity ranging from intercessory prayer to esp and none of these has been validated. There are no demonstrably actual "prophecy" (another word for precognition/esp), but there is much evidence of humans willing to out-right lie and deceive to support their beliefs or the pre-conceived conclusions that are included in their deluded worldviews.

If there is evidence for prophecy in biblical mythology, I challenge the believers to reveal which they find to be the best examples of it? Which one can be independently demonstrated to be a clear prediction of the future?

Okay we'll get technical--what reason is there not to believe "that the magical quality of 'prophecy' actually exists"? Who exactly are these reputable researchers? Who has the authority to unvalidate these claims? I don't outright lie--there are also those who simply don't outright lie. There is "much evidence" for humans to outright lie and deceive? Sounds like you are hanging out with the wrong friends.

If there was evidence for prophecy in Biblical "mythology"--would you believe it or simply condition it to your presuppoitions?

There are over 300 Bible prophecies and they all have great significance. The question really is--what would need to be fulfilled in your mind for it to be considered a prophecy?

So you see I cannot answer your questions until they are validated as actual questions. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Do you really have the evidence to back up what you ask?

 

[JimHR]

Great! I am looking forward to dialogue with you! I am sure I will learn something in the process.

What would you like to start with?

You have claimed that you understand the Scriptures perfectly. Are you really, really, really sure you want to make this claim?

Thank You!

Hey SetiAlpha6--I really do like your attitude a lot better than other people I won't mention. There is no reason why we can't make friends while we are discussing, is there? Thank you.

Well my claim is that I have the ability to read and understand Scriptures. This is a gift of God (faith I mean). I am by no means attempting to make the claim that I know all the wisdom in the Scriptures--that takes a long, healthy lifetime. I hope that makes sense to you and you can understand the difference. And I will stake my life on true Christianity being based only on the Bible and nothing else--no rituals, no radical traditions, no works based faith.

Can I ask you if you have ever attempted to read the Bible and what was your experience in so doing if you have?

 

[Prince_James]

JimHR:

No No No. I claim to be part of the first New Testament church based on the Bible--Catholicism and Protestantism are based on that--where do you think they came from?

The Pope is just a man as you and I and has no spiritual authority over me--the Pope isn't written about anywhere in the Bible (tradition). Same with Mary.

The first New Testament Church was a Catholic Church, and St. Peter the first Pope.

The Gospel According to Matthew, 16:18-19:

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Peter is given the the -keys of the Kingdom of Heaven-. He is given the power to forgive sins or to refuse forgiveness. He is most certainly a Biblical figure. And most definitely a Pope.

What Bible you read supports baby baptism and the big huge adorned churches?

The Bible of Christianity, good sir.

John 3:3-5 "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

This includes infants.

Moreover, "big adorned churches" have a scriptural foundation in the tremendous and beautiful Temple of Solomon and a non-Biblical foundation in human taste and getting people to believe by the glory demonstrated in architecture. Aesthetic vision is certainly part of the reason people convert to any religion.

In fact the Catholic church has added many a word to the Bible which clearly violates Scripture.

Which words precisely?

For last I checked, the Catholic Church is the reason we -have- the Bible.

Without Catholicism, there'd be no canon.

If you count yourself Christian and not a Catholic, then you are gravely mistaken.

 

[geeser]

Okay we'll get technical--what reason is there not to believe "that the magical quality of 'prophecy' actually exists"? Who exactly are these reputable researchers? Who has the authority to unvalidate these claims?

what reason is there not to believe "that the magic of david copperfield ' isn't actually real"?
Who has the authority to unvalidate this claims?

what reason is there not to believe "that the magical quality of the stories of a thousand and one nights' arn't actually true"?
Who has the authority to unvalidate those claims?

what reason is there not to believe "that the magical quality of the stories of a jason and the argonauts ' arn't actually true"?
Who has the authority to unvalidate those claims?

"Sense, Reason, and Intellect" have the authority.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

exactly, biblical claims are extraordinary.

Do you really have the evidence to back up what you ask?

well, you cant back up anything you claim, can you.
it is infantile, to ask for evidence of non-existence.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Actually I said to put his faith in God first and then try reading the Bible. I take the time to write my posts. I hope that you would take the time to read them.

He can't read the Bible until he has put his faith in God first. He said he didn't understand the Bible and I was simply saying that's because he doesn't have faith in God.

It was just a simple answer to a simple question.

I still do not understand how you can expect SkinWalker to have faith in God first, before he reads the Bible. I thought that the Bible was supposed to be written so that men might have faith, after reading it? Personally, I do not see how your view on this can be correct.

Hey SetiAlpha6--I really do like your attitude a lot better than other people I won't mention. There is no reason why we can't make friends while we are discussing, is there? Thank you.

No problem at all! But a good friend will be honest with you. And I will be! If you could find it in your heart to be so gracious as to not condemn me to hell over and over again, during any conversation we might have in the future, I would appreciate it. I promise I will never do that to you!

… And I will stake my life on true Christianity being based only on the Bible and nothing else--no rituals, no radical traditions, no works based faith.

Can I ask you if you have ever attempted to read the Bible and what was your experience in so doing if you have?

Sure! I have read much, but not all, of the Bible. I have studied it off and on for about the last 30 years. I have personally led many Bible studies. I considered myself to be born again in the past, but now I honestly do not know where I stand on that issue. Right now I see numerous problems in the Bible! And I do not currently trust it as a source of either truth or morality. I have been married to the same wonderful woman for the past 20 years and I have 3 awesome sons.

Thanks!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Okay we'll get technical--what reason is there not to believe "that the magical quality of 'prophecy' actually exists"? Who exactly are these reputable researchers? Who has the authority to unvalidate these claims? I don't outright lie--there are also those who simply don't outright lie. There is "much evidence" for humans to outright lie and deceive? Sounds like you are hanging out with the wrong friends.

If there was evidence for prophecy in Biblical "mythology"--would you believe it or simply condition it to your presuppoitions?

There are over 300 Bible prophecies and they all have great significance. The question really is--what would need to be fulfilled in your mind for it to be considered a prophecy?

So you see I cannot answer your questions until they are validated as actual questions. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Do you really have the evidence to back up what you ask?

*************
M*W: Hi JimHR, I've been reading the exchange between you, Seti and Skin. One point comes to mind that I want to share with you. The lack of evidence is evidence, but probably not the kind you want to hear.

I cannot speak for Skin, but I understand where he's coming from. It is not that he misunderstands the concepts of faith and religion, he understands them all too well.

Being spoon-fed ideologies allows one to live in a comfortable rut intellectually. In other words, what you don't know might hurt you. It can keep you in that comfortable rut and not allow you the space to learn and grow in whatever way you feel is right for you.

I see you as someone who is content right where you are. You are comfortable with the knowledge you have about your faith and religion, and you probably make efforts to maintain your level of belief. There's nothing wrong with that, but there's something not right about it either. Maintaining your knowledge status quo will also limit you intellectually. I can tell that you are an intelligent person, and you have the capacity to acquire a greater understanding of your faith and religion. I just don't understand how you could want to remain in that comfortable rut. My guess is that you are among those of like mind who are content with their intellectual status quo. Never be afraid to seek a greater knowledge. Never fear what you might learn.

 

[SkinWalker]

You know--for something that is "nonsense," "cowardly," "fallacious," "BS, "pretend,"cults,"in safe-guards," "deluded," "in their delusion and prevent them from opening their minds to the world"-- it sure did strike a nerve in your system.

Tell me when and where I ever used such demeaning names for your choice beliefs.

The terms I used are factual and based on the best data available with regard to religious belief. "Delusion" is, quite succinctly, a misguided belief. Obviously, the beliefs of those that accept without question, inquiry or critical wonder the claims of the fantastic are easily classified as delusional. A "cult" is very clearly a particular form or system of religious worship. Your dismissal of the opinions of others is very much a cowardly one when it presupposes that those that don't believe what you are incapable, creating a fallacy.

You might find these terms and descriptions demeaning, but such is the nature of those willing to make claims of superstitious nonsense without the slightest shred of evidence. UFO nutters are offended when skeptics question their beliefs; the gullible followers of Sylvia Brown are often offended when her BS is criticized; astrologers and horoscope followers dislike their poppycock being questioned.

If your beliefs were truly grounded in reality and fact, then they would survive a few questions and doubts and probably even a fair bit of ridicule.

I don't outright lie

That remains to be seen. But I give you the same response I give the the ESP believers: you're either lying, deluded, or telling the truth. With regard to the subject matter there's no evidence of the latter, and ample evidence in others for the former two options.

There are over 300 Bible prophecies and they all have great significance.

Which of those is the most significant in your opinion? Which is the most easily defended as a real, honest to goodness "prophecy?" If you choose not to answer, I'll understand since by committing yourself thus, I or others will only thoroughly debunk said "prophecy," which would, therefore, render all the others as bunk too.

 

[JimHR]

what reason is there not to believe "that the magic of david copperfield ' isn't actually real"?
Who has the authority to unvalidate this claims?

what reason is there not to believe "that the magical quality of the stories of a jason and the argonauts ' arn't actually true"?
Who has the authority to unvalidate those claims?

Uh--does David Copperfield claim to be performing the miracles of God? No. Do the authors of these fantasies claim to have written the Word of God? No.
What was your point?

it is infantile, to ask for evidence of non-existence.

Unless it is existent. What proof would you need right now to know that God and the Bible is true? You have creation, your conscience, millions of Christians around the world and the Bible itself. Tell me in what way God could reveal himself that would not force us to believe?

He gave us a freewill to have faith so we wouldn't be robots.

Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29

 

[JimHR]

I still do not understand how you can expect SkinWalker to have faith in God first, before he reads the Bible. I thought that the Bible was supposed to be written so that men might have faith, after reading it? Personally, I do not see how your view on this can be correct.

Hey SetiAlpha6! I really do like your personality you seem "normal."

Well I believe the Bible was written so men will have a deeper faith. But reading the Bible will not give a person initial faith. How did people have faith before the Bible was written? It tells us who God is--His character. Before a person can understand the Bible they must be born again with the Spirit.

Faith is simply a gift of God. We are all born with a desirous faith, but we quench it as we get older. Just like I'm sure every one in this forum has had a religious experience in an attempt to satisy their spiritual thirst.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

No problem at all! But a good friend will be honest with you. And I will be! If you could find it in your heart to be so gracious as to not condemn me to hell over and over again, during any conversation we might have in the future, I would appreciate it. I promise I will never do that to you!

Alright I will never condemn you to hell. God forbid if He gave me that power or authority! The Bible, however, has the authority to do so. Do you want me to be honest with you about the Bible? This is the only way you will discover the truth. The Bible has a clear path for salvation, unlike any religion. Do you want to know it?

Sure! I have read much, but not all, of the Bible. I have studied it off and on for about the last 30 years. I have personally led many Bible studies. I considered myself to be born again in the past, but now I honestly do not know where I stand on that issue. Right now I see numerous problems in the Bible! And I do not currently trust it as a source of either truth or morality. I have been married to the same wonderful woman for the past 20 years and I have 3 awesome sons.

Well how can you believe the Bible if you don't trust it? You either have to believe all of the Bible or none of the Bible. You can't pick and choose. May I ask you what you do trust as your source of truth or morality?

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love Him because He first loved us." 1 John 1:18-19

What do you fear if the Bible be true?