Bible contradictions

Medicine*Woman said:
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Again, I never claimed to have all the knowledge of the universe. If I did have it, why would I be here questioning all man-made religion? I have stated many times why I believe what I believe. Ultimately, I am an atheist. We don't come here to convert christians. That is not something that can be done on a whim. It takes years' of study to become an atheist. It takes years of questioning every sylable of the bible to reach the level of reason to understand what it really means. You're just not there, yet, and I don't foresee you reaching that point probably in your lifetime.
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MW, allow me to add a bit to this:
Theists, do you or do you not think we should question the bible's validity? Do you or do you not think that God would be mad at someone who uses the free will he gave us to question our doubts in order to seek the truth, even if it involved questioning the validity of His own book???
If you say, 'no, we aren't allowed to question it'. Where does it say that questioning the bible is a sin?
If there is an actual written rule where we can't question the bible, why would anyone want to follow a deity like that? IIRC, most historical dictators and tyrants didn't allow the people of their country to question their laws either. Seems pretty shady to me.


It still makes me curious why you as a christian would choose to become a member on a predominantly atheistic forum. I question your motive and sincerity. It has been a major observation that christians only come here to preach, but no amount of your preaching will make atheists even bat an eye. So why do you come here? What ulterior motive do you have as a christian in an atheist forum?
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To add to the bold print, not only will they not bat an eye, your preaching may very well backfire. and cause athiests (and even agnosticists such as myself) to lose respect for you and will destroy your credibility.
 
NDS said:
Saquist,

1) Do you believe a global flood occured as described in Genesis?

2) Do you believe the following excerpt from the Bible is describing the Noah flood, or creation? (Keep in mind that when the earth was first created it was fully engulfed in water)
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Forgive me NDS, I just don't see the point. I just sense you're about to make an assumption and as a result you'd be vastly wrong.

However, you do yourself credit by asking first.
So...yes I do believe that the Flood occured as Genesis express it.

Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: I state as factual what I believe to be factual from all the research I have done. What you believe to be factual may be different, even opposite, of what I believe to be factual. You believe there was a man name Jesus who walked the earth. I do not believe this. I don't post anything I believe to be untrue or skeptical. I have done enough research on the subject of astrotheology that I am convinced it is the first and final frontier (the alpha and omega, if you will) of religion, especially christianity. So, if I state it as factual, that is what I believe it to be. At least I can prove that the sun, stars and constellations actually exist. Can you do that with your Jesus?
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However you didn't express it objectively, it lead me to make an assumption that there was some information I previously did not know. Specificly that some critical information was minus my perview...this was leading possibily misleading.
 
Global flood as in the "known global world" which was nowhere near as global as we now know it. Probably coincided with the last ice age anyway?
 
mikenostic said:
Theists, do you or do you not think we should question the bible's validity? Do you or do you not think that God would be mad at someone who uses the free will he gave us to question our doubts in order to seek the truth, even if it involved questioning the validity of His own book???
If you say, 'no, we aren't allowed to question it'. Where does it say that questioning the bible is a sin?
If there is an actual written rule where we can't question the bible, why would anyone want to follow a deity like that? IIRC, most historical dictators and tyrants didn't allow the people of their country to question their laws either. Seems pretty shady to me.
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According to the following passage, the one who questions and examines is the more “noble-minded”. Just as you are mikenostic.

Acts 17:10-11
10The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

The longer a person examines the scriptures the more errors and contradictions he will find. It takes personal honesty, integrity, and character to overcome the paralyzing fear that the Bible teaches all those who follow it without question.
 
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Red Devil said:
Global flood as in the "known global world" which was nowhere near as global as we now know it. Probably coincided with the last ice age anyway?
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The Genesis account doesn't describe a local flood. The very nature of the description defies localtiy. Waters don't continue to rise in a local flood after the rain has ceased.
 
Saquist said:
The Genesis account doesn't describe a local flood. The very nature of the description defies localtiy. Waters don't continue to rise in a local flood after the rain has ceased.
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If every single ice crystal on this planet were to melt and if every single water vapor molecule liquidized, the sea level of this planet would raise no more than 100 feet. I guess God himself just pissed the rest of the water down to raise up the 25,000+ feet to cover Mt. Everest???
Oh, not to mention that the (presumably fresh) extra water would desalinize the oceans to the point where salt water creatures would not survive (i.e. sharks which have been around for hundreds of millions of years). You ever try to keep a saltwater fish in a freshwater aquarium and see how long it survives? Less than 40 days and 40 nights.
 
Even mainstream scientists admit that the ocean came from the degassing of mantle material.

There were vast zones of varying salinities and temperatures of the Deluge waters, and many syngameons of sea creatures may have been exterminated.
 
Waters don't continue to rise in a local flood after the rain has ceased.
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And Genesis says nothing about the water continuing to rise after the rain has stopped.
 
17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. 21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark. 24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 6:5-9:17&version=31;

Nope. The waters may have been there for 5 months, but it doesn't say they were rising after the rain stopped.
 
1 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters receded. 2 Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed, and the rain had stopped falling from the sky. 3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down
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You mean "springs" - read it -
and the rain had stopped falling from the sky
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then the water started to recede...
 
Depends on the translat[or/ ion] presumably, the on-line version I found made no mention of fountains.
 
mikenostic said:
If every single ice crystal on this planet were to melt and if every single water vapor molecule liquidized, the sea level of this planet would raise no more than 100 feet. I guess God himself just pissed the rest of the water down to raise up the 25,000+ feet to cover Mt. Everest???
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He could do create those waters himself however God shows us in Genesis that creation ended. Therefore there is a more mundane explanation.

Oh, not to mention that the (presumably fresh) extra water would desalinize the oceans to the point where salt water creatures would not survive (i.e. sharks which have been around for hundreds of millions of years). You ever try to keep a saltwater fish in a freshwater aquarium and see how long it survives? Less than 40 days and 40 nights.
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Yep, that's true...
 
Saquist said:
Forgive me NDS, I just don't see the point. I just sense you're about to make an assumption and as a result you'd be vastly wrong.

However, you do yourself credit by asking first.
So...yes I do believe that the Flood occured as Genesis express it.
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LOL. Thank you for that bit, but I already knew that you believed a global flood occured as described in Genesis. I only asked the question as a precursor to Question 2. You know, the one you forgot to answer.

Here is Question 2 again, let's see if you can give a nice simple "yes" or "no" this time.

2) Do you believe Psalms 104 (not Genesis 6-8) is describing the Noah flood, or creation?

To help you out, I've included below some commentaries from known Biblical scholars who devote their entire lives to interpreting the Bible. Keep in mind, most of these commentaries are from Christians who support a young-earth interpretation.


The inscription of the Syriac version of Psalms 104

"a psalm of David, when he went to worship before the ark of the Lord with the priests; and as to us, it teaches us confession and prayer; and intimates to us the constitution of the beginning of the creatures; and declares some things concerning the angels."

Septuagint

"a psalm of David concerning the constitution of the world;"

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

"for it treats of the creation of all things, of the heavens and the earth, and of all creatures in them; and of the providence of God in taking care of them.
Psa 104:6 - Thou coverest it with the deep as with a garment,.... This refers not to the waters of the flood, when the earth was covered with them, even the tops of the highest mountains; but to the huge mass of waters, the abyss and depth of them, which lay upon the earth and covered it as a garment, at its first creation, as the context and the scope of it show; and which deep was covered with darkness, at which time the earth was without form, and void, Gen 1:2"

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on the Whole Bible

"Psalms 104 - God's majesty in the heavens, The creation of the sea, and the dry land. (1-9)"

John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible

"Psa 104:6 - The deep - In the first creation, Gen 1:2, Gen 1:9."

Adam Clarke's Commentary

"The majesty and power of God manifested in the creation of the heavens and the atmosphere, 1-3; of the earth and sea, 4- 9"

The Treasury of David (Charles H. Spurgeon)

"Verse 6. Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment. The new born earth was wrapped in aqueous swaddling bands. In the first ages, ere man appeared, the proud waters ruled the whole earth. The waters stood above the mountains, no dry land was visible, vapour as from a steaming cauldron covered all. Geologists inform us of this as a discovery, but the Holy Spirit had revealed the fact long before."
 
Oli said:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 6:5-9:17&version=31;

Nope. The waters may have been there for 5 months, but it doesn't say they were rising after the rain stopped.
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Remeber how long it rained...40 days and 40 nights. Afterward the bible said the waters kept increasing. We find later that "the waters continued to overwhelm the Earth for a hundred fifty days..."

But it only rained for 40 days and 40 nights but the water overwhelmed for half a year....This was not a normal flood and the flood obviously wasn't due to simply rain.
 
Saquist, I have another question for you.

Gen 8:1
And God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters subsided.

Was the author of this verse implying that the "wind" from God caused the waters to subside?


P.S. - Any reason why you won't answer my question above?
 
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