beer woman spared a good old fasioned caning

[Michael]

Malaysia beer woman spared caning
Isn't this quaint? It's like a scene out of 1700s America.
Except she'd also probably be charged as a witch and flogged a couple times for measure

Do you think it's good justice? I mean, having two systems of law? One for he theist and one for non-theist? Does this woman need to renounce her faith in order to have a drink of beer? (oh, sorry that may be punishable as well).

All civilizations ... hell, since the time of Egypt drank beer. I wonder why Malaysia has criminalized it?

 

[Michael]

Check this chick out ... I wonder if she is single?!?!?

 

[S.A.M.]

All civilizations ... hell, since the time of Egypt drank beer. I wonder why Malaysia has criminalized it?

Drunk driving, most probably - its a major issue with beer drinking.

For some reason people don't take beer seriously as an intoxicant.

 

[Michael]

This chick looks like she needs a good caning!

 

[Michael]

Drunk driving, most probably - its a major issue with beer drinking.

For some reason people don't take beer seriously as an intoxicant.

Really? Huh ... so only Muslims are irresponsible enough to drink and drive?!?!

 

[Michael]

probably keeps the Hobbits out to!

 

[S.A.M.]

Really? Huh ... so only Muslims are irresponsible enough to drink and drive?!?!

Malaysia has serious alcohol problems and there are RTAs in Saudi Arabia due to beer drinking, IIRC [although insignificant overall due to banning of alcohol and hence reduced access].

So, that would be a no.

 

[Meursalt]

Don't be ridiculous.

I've lived there. It has nothing to do with drink driving, and everything to do with their religion.
Which is why the Chinese and Indians drink as much as everyone else and the Malays barely touch it. Malaysia does not have "serious alcohol problems". It is, in general, one of the driest countries I've ever lived in.

The Malays are Muslim, and the Chinese aren't.
And that is all there is to it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Or the Malays think they have an alcohol problem and the Chinese don't.

I think the statistics would be much higher for drunk driving in other countries, but they don't see it as a problem.

The Malays didn't just adopt Islam btw.

 

[iceaura]

All civilizations ... hell, since the time of Egypt drank beer. I wonder why Malaysia has criminalized it?
”
Drunk driving, most probably - its a major issue with beer drinking.

It's an Islamic law, directed at Muslims, with Islamic penalties. It has nothing to do with driving. Islamic countries that ban women from driving also ban them from drinking beer.

I think the statistics would be much higher for drunk driving in other countries, but they don't see it as a problem.

They see it as a driving problem.

 

[S.A.M.]

It's an Islamic law, directed at Muslims, with Islamic penalties. It has nothing to do with driving. Islamic countries that ban women from driving also ban them from drinking beer.

They see it as a driving problem.

The original debate before PAS co-opted it [and ironically it is the Muslims who will face a problem now, if the current "self regulation" in Selangor takes off] was the ease of access of alcohol to children under 18 and the rising problem of alcohol dependency in the poorer classes especially work related, which usually results in vicious cycles of unemployment and alcoholism.

But politicians being what they are, it was grabbed by hardliners and became a sectarian issue where none existed before. Nevertheless they rejected the beer ban, so its good. Now to see how long the self regulation lasts.

 

[iceaura]

The original debate before PAS co-opted it [and ironically it is the Muslims who will face a problem now, if the current "self regulation" in Selangor takes off] was the ease of access of alcohol to children under 18 and the rising problem of alcohol dependency in the poorer classes especially work related, which usually results in vicious cycles of unemployment and alcoholism.

I've got a hundred bucks says the people in Malaysia were brewing and drinking some kind of alcohol more than a hundred years ago.

If they've got a new problem, it's a new problem - no sense blaming the beer.

 

[Meursalt]

SAM knows damn well it's a religious law (if not, it would be applicable to non-Malays as well), she's just trying to obfuscate the issue.
The Malays have Sharia courts which will deal with Malay cases quite separately from those of other ethnicities.
She's become quite silly these days.

The Chinese have too much a vested interest in the finances of the country for the Malays to try any anti-alcohol laws anyway, and they know it. There is no way Malaysia can become a purely Muslim state while the Chinese are there. The was quite a kafuffle with some old Chinese temples a while back which ended up causing quite a disturbance until the Malay government backed off. The message was quite clear.
A place like Dubai can slap a total ban on something like alcohol and get away with it because business there is mostly multinational investment rather than grassroots. The Chinese in Malaysia (and Indonesia, incidentally) are rooted like 400 hundred year old oak.

It's a shame, really. The ethnic Malays are fantastic people, in general. It's a pity someone had to go force some stupid antiquated laws down their throats a few hundred years back. Seriously... how many countries in the world hold that an ethnic native is a member of a particular religion by constitution?

 

[Enmos]

Seriously... how many countries in the world hold that an ethnic native is a member of a particular religion by constitution?

Seriously ? That's moronic..

 

[S.A.M.]

Seriously... how many countries in the world hold that an ethnic native is a member of a particular religion by constitution?

Like ethnic Europeans are members of the Lutheran church?

As for the Malays, it was the government that voted against a ban on the beer, not the Chinese. Allowing people the choice of their own religious systems and laws is something widespread and Asia. It avoids the aftereffects seen with ethnic cleansing and then allegations of people being held accountable for what their ancestors did or did not do.

I'm sure aboriginals have their own courts in Australia for matters pertaining to them as a nation, just as Jews have their halacha courts in England and sharia courts for their Muslim citizens in Israel. But yes, Jews or Muslims following their own laws historically leads to wet pants in some nations.

 

[Enmos]

Like ethnic Europeans are members of the Lutheran church?

 

[S.A.M.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion

Its probably based on the Roman system.

If a person is a Roman citizen, he automatically joins the Roman religion

In some European countries becoming a citizen automatically makes you a member of the state church.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that separation of church and state was seen for the first time in Islamic cultures, although as you can see, they seem to have little memory of that now.

 

[Michael]

So, in theory, this woman could renounce her religion and go get hammered legally and then get behind the wheel illegally and drive?

That aside, I don't get the whole "they" are poor and so it's to protect them. I mean, presumably there are a lot of poor non-Muslims there as well? If all the poor are Muslim, then there's a problem going on.

RE: 400 year old oak
It's interesting to think that Chinese merchants are such big players in the economies of Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia - I wonder why? Is it just connections? Chinese looking out for Chinese?

 

[Meursalt]

Like ethnic Europeans are members of the Lutheran church?

Is that a law in Europe, SAM? Is it written into the constitutions of all these European nations?
They've made it a law that all Europeans of a certain ethnicity are automatically Lutheran, and have to undergo all kinds of hell trying to convince their families they're not?
Malaysia has many of it's own ethnic citizens fighting for the right to be recognised as a member of another religion, or an atheist. Now you tell me once more, because I want to hear you say it, that a European deciding he's a muslim, or any other religion, is subject to the same degree of estrangement. That the laws which apply to his own family no longer apply to him, and that he is no longer recognised as a member of his own ethnic community.
You show me that.

As for the Malays, it was the government that voted against a ban on the beer, not the Chinese.

...Duh, SAM.
Malaysian law is very closely tied with their religion, and Malays have, and will retain, all the power in government for the foreseeable future.

Allowing people the choice of their own religious systems and laws is something widespread and Asia. It avoids the aftereffects seen with ethnic cleansing and then allegations of people being held accountable for what their ancestors did or did not do.

... eh?

I'm sure aboriginals have their own courts in Australia for matters pertaining to them as a nation

Wrong. They are subject to Australian Law.
Certain leeway is allowed in some minor instances for tribal punishment, but I think that's about as ridiculous as this woman... or anyone else... being caned for having a beer.
Want me to laugh at someone being speared for hitting someone else's wife?
I will. Bloody stupid barbarians. tee hee. There. You happy?

Next time, Don't assume that you can point at something wrong with Australia and think I'll defend it. You, on the other hand, can not be perceived to be able to debate anything with anything resembling a balanced view, nor can you be trusted to have an argument without trying to redirect attention elsewhere to cover your own gaping wounds.

But yes, Jews or Muslims following their own laws historically leads to wet pants in some nations.

Not wet pants, SAM.
Ridicule.

 

[Meursalt]

So, in theory, this woman could renounce her religion and go get hammered?

She'd suffer for it.

RE: 400 year old oak
It's interesting to think that Chinese merchants are such big players in the economies of Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia - I wonder why? Is it just connections? Chinese looking out for Chinese?

Partly. They're very insular, very canny, and look after their families. In terms of world economic performance, you have to admire the Chinese for their ability in this area. They've been doing it for thousands of years, in all countries all across the globe. Discover a new continent, and there'd be a Chinese laundry and takeaway there the next week, because someone's grandfather was reading a newspaper in China and saw an opportunity to set up a family member for success.