Atheists

[superluminal]

As a point of interest, I would like to know, given their lack of belief in any God, do atheists ever feel a spiritual vacuum?

Taking "spiritual" in its non-theistic sense (wonder, awe, the Mysterium Tremendum) sure we do. Don't theists? We aren't emotionless robots you know. We just don't invoke a massive unknown, evidence-less entity to explain the cosmos. But, I would guess that our times of "spiritual vacuum" are much less intense and threatening to our well being as a theists are. Simply because what we base our philosophy on is observable, testable, rational, and "real". If something comes along to challenge or change that (like a profound new physical or biological result) we usually are excited and want to learn more. You can see how this makes an atheists world view much more robust that a theists, at least in theory.

 

[S.A.M.]

Taking "spiritual" in its non-theistic sense (wonder, awe, the Mysterium Tremendum) sure we do. Don't theists? We aren't emotionless robots you know. We just don't invoke a massive unknown, evidence-less entity to explain the cosmos. But, I would guess that our times of "spiritual vacuum" are much less intense and threatening to our well being as a theists are. Simply because what we base our philosophy on is observable, testable, rational, and "real". If something comes along to challenge or change that (like a profound new physical or biological result) we usually are excited and want to learn more. You can see how this makes an atheists world view much more robust that a theists, at least in theory.

I ask because under conditions of extreme physical or emotional duress, I feel an uncontrollable, compelling urge to pray...its almost unconscious, esp in times of great pain.

What does an atheist fall back on?

 

[RickyH]

Everything but a god.

 

[(Q)]

I ask because under conditions of extreme physical or emotional duress, I feel an uncontrollable, compelling urge to pray...its almost unconscious, esp in times of great pain.

What does an atheist fall back on?

Reason, rationale, and the ability to manage duress.

 

[S.A.M.]

Reason, rationale, and the ability to manage duress.

I hope I do too, I meant more in terms of a source of emotional strength. For example, my mother's love and support have enabled me to make many difficult choices in my life and saved me from a humdrum existence. She is a source of great emotional strength to me, as are certain friends, who have believed in me when I was unsure. But in their absence, or for certain decisions where I cannot have them involved, I pray and it offers me a great measure of relief.

Hopefully after that, I use my rationale to make a rational decision and manage the duress adequately.

I am curious; I really would like to know.

 

[(Q)]

I pray and it offers me a great measure of relief.

Don't be lead to believe that prayer will actually have any effect on the outcome. It's merely a way of escaping the duress temporarily, and does nothing to actually address it.

Hopefully after that, I use my rationale to make a rational decision and manage the duress adequately.

Since prayer does not address duress (can I say that in the same sentence?) then it is rather useless and wastes the necessary time you need to manage the duress.

Forget prayer, and instead, jump directly to reasoning and rationalizing your duress. You'll find it helps tremendously.

 

[S.A.M.]

Don't be lead to believe that prayer will actually have any effect on the outcome. It's merely a way of escaping the duress temporarily, and does nothing to actually address it.



Since prayer does not address duress (can I say that in the same sentence?) then it is rather useless and wastes the necessary time you need to manage the duress.

Forget prayer, and instead, jump directly to reasoning and rationalizing your duress. You'll find it helps tremendously.

Wish I had your strength; I find that directly jumping in never solves the problem, may even exacerbate it. Praying helps me to focus, sometimes lets me see issues about the problem not obvious before.

Anyway, would you change a way of life that works excellently for you?

I find religion gives structure to my spiritual life, I am very spiritual and I cannot just hope that it will "go away". It offers me a framework on which to base my faith, helps me to understand people (even atheists) and is a part of my peronality, who I am. Denying my religion is as equivalent to being false to myself as an idea of theism would be to make you feel that way.

 

[superluminal]

I think that atheists like me, who never had a religious background, find the idea of praying for support as odd as you would find not praying.

I agree with the previous posters in that I rely on inner reason and "thinking things through" and in times of physical duress, lots and lots of swearing!

 

[S.A.M.]

and in times of physical duress, lots and lots of swearing!

Based on the posts in sciforums that is a "religion" all by itself LOL

 

[superluminal]

Based on the posts in sciforums that is a "religion" all by itself LOL

And a high art form too, IMHO.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I don't know. Some people call a profound respect from the nature of the universe a 'spiritual' thing, and atheists typically have this respect on a deeper level than childish theists.

I think spiritualism is bullshit, I don't need it. It's just something people give a name. I mean look at the spiritual 'atheists' on this forum like c7ity and emptyforceofchi - they are idiots.

Just a note, for me spiritualism is a very powerful force to bind my relationship with myself to a deep appreciation of both reality and fantasy. It's very empowering and it can be exercised without acceptance of fantasy as reality.

 

[(Q)]

Wish I had your strength; I find that directly jumping in never solves the problem, may even exacerbate it. Praying helps me to focus, sometimes lets me see issues about the problem not obvious before.

So, praying is more like stress management for you? And of course, you don't expect anything to be affected by your prayers, right?

Anyway, would you change a way of life that works excellently for you?

Only unless I found a better way. One must be open to new ideas.

I find religion gives structure to my spiritual life, I am very spiritual and I cannot just hope that it will "go away". It offers me a framework on which to base my faith, helps me to understand people (even atheists) and is a part of my peronality, who I am. Denying my religion is as equivalent to being false to myself as an idea of theism would be to make you feel that way.

Well, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree on that since spirituality has not been shown to exist, that is, unless you refer to spirituality as giving you warm and fuzzies all over?

Denying religion simply means that you're denying the notion gods and the supernatural exist.

Denying YOUR religion over others simply means you believe in one more god than me. But, the question would remain, why would you deny the other religions over yours?

 

[S.A.M.]

So, praying is more like stress management for you? And of course, you don't expect anything to be affected by your prayers, right?

Only unless I found a better way. One must be open to new ideas.

Well, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree on that since spirituality has not been shown to exist, that is, unless you refer to spirituality as giving you warm and fuzzies all over?

Denying religion simply means that you're denying the notion gods and the supernatural exist.

Denying YOUR religion over others simply means you believe in one more god than me. But, the question would remain, why would you deny the other religions over yours?

You seem to (deliberately?) misunderstand what I am trying to say.

Since you are obviously not a spiritual person, it would be like tryng to explain the taste of a fruit to one who has never heard of or seen it.

A fruitless atempt.

 

[Ophiolite]

Since prayer does not address duress ...then it is(sic) rather useless and wastes the necessary time you need to manage the duress.

Pray do not be offended, but you have made a singularily presumptuous, unsubstantiated, and ignorant statement.

I leave it to you to find, if you think it necessary, the considerable volume of literature relating to problem solving in humans. The quality of the decision, and the speed with which good quality decisions are reached, are both partly, but significantly, dependent upon the state of mind of the problem solver. A reasonably calm, certainly a focused state, is beneficial. Prayer can assist in attaining this state rapidly and consistently.

If you are to appreciate the value of prayer then you have to objectively assess its effects, and distinguish them from its overt purpose and mechanism - seeking help by speaking to God. Your aversion to the latter has quite blinded you to the reality of the former. That isn't bad science, it is not science.

 

[perplexity]

I ask because under conditions of extreme physical or emotional duress, I feel an uncontrollable, compelling urge to pray...its almost unconscious, esp in times of great pain.

What does an atheist fall back on?

I have never understood how the prospect of Heaven or Hell or reincarnation are supposed to comfort, with far too many unknown factors already in the equation before death, never mind the beyond.

Religion for me has rather increased the duress, especially when young, with the terrifyingly insecure prospect of ultimate approval ... "will I be good enough".... etc.

Without the variety of eventual threats to worry about the promise of total oblivion would rather be a comforting prospect.

--- Ron.

 

[(Q)]

Pray do not be offended, but you have made a singularily presumptuous, unsubstantiated, and ignorant statement.
A reasonably calm, certainly a focused state, is beneficial. Prayer can assist in attaining this state rapidly and consistently.

Is YOUR singularily presumptuous, unsubstantiated and ignorant statement based on evidence or personal experience?

If you are to appreciate the value of prayer then you have to objectively assess its effects, and distinguish them from its overt purpose and mechanism - seeking help by speaking to God. Your aversion to the latter has quite blinded you to the reality of the former. That isn't bad science, it is not science.

Please do objectively assess its effects as opposed to subjectively speculating?

 

[(Q)]

You seem to (deliberately?) misunderstand what I am trying to say.

Since you are obviously not a spiritual person, it would be like tryng to explain the taste of a fruit to one who has never heard of or seen it.

A fruitless atempt.

Neither one of us is a spiritual person, hence you've also not tasted the 'fruit' you refer. No one has.

Anyone who claimed such things would be lying.

 

[superluminal]

Arguing over definitions. We need a word that expresses the same emotional content for an atheist as "spiritual" does for a theist. We all share this emotion at times.

superluminal:

Taking "spiritual" in its non-theistic sense (wonder, awe, the Mysterium Tremendum) sure we do. Don't theists? We aren't emotionless robots you know. We just don't invoke a massive unknown, evidence-less entity to explain the cosmos. But, I would guess that our times of "spiritual vacuum" are much less intense and threatening to our well being as a theists are. Simply because what we base our philosophy on is observable, testable, rational, and "real". If something comes along to challenge or change that (like a profound new physical or biological result) we usually are excited and want to learn more. You can see how this makes an atheists world view much more robust that a theists, at least in theory.

 

[Ophiolite]

Is YOUR singularily presumptuous, unsubstantiated and ignorant statement based on evidence or personal experience?

Please do objectively assess its effects as opposed to subjectively speculating?

I shall address these questions when you have the courage to acknowledge my desription of your remarks was accurate, or you have demonstrated that they are false. Until then kindly leave your arrogance warming on the fire.

 

[Ophiolite]

Neither one of us is a spiritual person, hence you've also not tasted the 'fruit' you refer. No one has.
Anyone who claimed such things would be lying.

May I apologise. This isn't the first time I have mistaken stupidity for arrogance. Please continue your groundless 'thoughts' without further intervention from me.