O.K. dear you made the A list , Congratulations you get a gold star . Spend it how you want . Itwas the listening to music that did it . Eating and Fucking is good too , but the Music is closer to my heart. You forgot pooping, peeing ,sleeping and working though . Oh yeah I forgot the etc. My bad
Atheists: What's the Purpose of Living?
- Thread starter Thoreau
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O.K. dear you made the A list , Congratulations you get a gold star . Spend it how you want . Itwas the listening to music that did it . Eating and Fucking is good too , but the Music is closer to my heart. You forgot pooping, peeing ,sleeping and working though . Oh yeah I forgot the etc. My bad
i debated about responding to this thread because ultimately it's asking atheists a question, and i'm not an atheist. you made a big deal opening by saying it's time to turn the attention off of christians, and then went on to talk about christians in the remainder of the post repeatedly. i take that as an invitation to post on topic.
:shrug:
you start with a description of christian doctrine, prefaced by "obviously" and "for the most part" which i interpret as "this is what i see and hear from christians the majority of the time", and i believe that. i do not however as a christian, consider that description of doctrine to be accurate, according to the bible, which of course it supposed to be the basis of the doctrine. it's at least very poorly worded which doesn't surprise me because, people are fucking ignorant. but i'm afraid that this ignorance runs deeper than communication skills and into real religious doctrine.
it reminded me of the jehovah's witnesses that come around. let me preface this by saying that the only reason i have discussions with these people is because my husband is a much kinder and more tolerant person than i am. now when they're here they're like old friends. my husband's a good influence on me. so anyway, i was answering their patronizing questions the other day about what i thought the kingdom was, not because they were actually interested in what my thoughts were but because they already had a right answer and wanted to correct me, and when they did, i got the impression that they think the kingdom is some government in the sky that will rule beings on earth, like secular governments do, with enforced rules. and that's what a lot of religious doctrine is about, and that's what a lot of christians seem to think is the answer, but that's not the answer according to the bible. blindly following rules is what jesus made fun of the pharisee's for doing.
in the bible, sin isn't considered just an act. it can be a thought. it's inherent; you're born into it. it's instinctual, often referred to as "the desires of the flesh". and jesus was deemed "the fulfillment of the law" because he was born without it due to a divine intervention into the bloodline. by the blood, by the blood! isn't that what all the christians say? comes our salvation, redemption, restoration, a washing away of our sins, a rebirth. they pretend to drink the stuff. that's either symbolizing a desire to adopt the bloodline, or that they're vampires who will try to eat jesus when he returns.
the kingdom is the manifestation of a population that is inherently without sin as christ is; the fulfillment of the law, as christ is. an existence in which communion with god and each other is restored entirely. and therefore a community in which things like governments and religions are obsolete. shall we always need to write these laws down on pieces of paper and beat each other over the head with them when they are the laws of our own creator? i don't think so. the bible suggests a purpose for life..to experience, learn, and evolve...that an atheist may agree with.
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Some atheists may agree with the first two.
I don't think many will concur with the third. (Depending on what you mean by "evolve", and that would be a means, not an end).
the bible doesn't suggest an end. by evolve i mean the same thing you mean when you say evolve.
their interpretation is no more or less ridiculous than yours may be.
this is not some mystery. it's actually pretty simple. of course sin is not considered just an act, in explanation. this is because our motives and thoughts as well as our nature will dictate what we do. the thought must occur first before the intentional action.
what i don't agree with this belief system is that they are one and the same. that's quite unrealistic to me simply because one cannot know what one has thought. we can only go by actions in this physical reality. some of the most corrupt people within religions find this very appealing because they can easily absolve themselves by equating thoughts to actions. alternately even jesus taught that actions speak louder than words.
But the word "purpose" does. It implies a final goal.
Then individuals can't have that as a "purpose".
(And, as stated, since it's a "means", not an end, it's also not a purpose).
well, would you be satisfied with the elimination of human suffering and death?
not necessarily. this is because evolution does not take into account any sense of morals or not much. scientists just explain the process just as if you were in africa and recording the mauling of a gazelle by a troupe of lions.
religion or philosophy usually tends to ask the larger questions or questions that science doesn't deal with which is usually ethical dilemmas.
we can see clearly that one of the major problems with evolution is that ethics or our better natures does not evolve at the same pace as our technology or the physical.
almost all the major problems in the world are due to the issues of our lesser nature which is the reason for misuse or misappropriation or mismanagement as well as causing so much suffering to ourselves and others; not lack of intelligence, lack of food, lack of medicine, lack of technology etc.
maybe people's better natures will evolve more in the future.
to experience, learn, and evolve. if the experience continues, as it would if life were eternal, then there is no implied finality.
well if actions speak louder than words then collectively, regardless of what we may say our purpose is individually, we are a communal species, and we do evolve. that is not to say that we as individuals can't or don't evolve over the course of our lives.
Then the answer is: no.
In other words you're not using the word "evolve" the same way I am, despite your comment to the contrary.
it depends on what you mean by 'evolve'.
as a religious person, one should be concerned more with how that evolution occurs. we live in a system that has a constant cycle of inficting suffering on so many lives. i don't consider that a worthy type of evolution.
if people evolved to be more compassionate and less selfish, that that would be a good evolution imo. otherwise, it's just a constant push/pull power struggle of domination/oppression. i think the latter is dumb and i would just not feel good about coming out on top from a system like that or feel proud of it.
you don't think that human beings will continue to evolve?
how are you using it then?
Human beings, as a specie, will. Individuals don't.
In the scientific sense: i.e. individuals do not "evolve".
And, one more time: the word purpose implies a goal (check a dictionary sometime).
Learning, experiencing and evolving are not goals but processes.
A) No. For life to have a purpose requires a "purposer" (a sapient life form). No such entity exists.
B) N/A
What ? Are you a Homo sapien ? You know what that word means . It comes from Latin I believe . It means wisdom . Why would that be ? Maybe because of the need for the human to understand there environment? They have a tendency to seek the truth , The meaning of life and what makes it tick and things like that . Yeah big herds of humans in city centers everywhere do it . They are evrywhere
except Me. I am an Individual evolved . Some day in the distant future everybody will be more like Me. Yeah buddy I bet you can't wait for that day to come
You are entitled to your opinion and your point of view. Nonetheless I will respond, to clarify myself, not to change your opinion, that is your decision and yours alone.
Prestige and fame, along with influence and power. To me, those are tools, just like a hammer and a saw. To me, they are just pawns to be used. I will be needed those to make a big impact. I don't strive for it, it is not the destination, but merely a bridge
How? That will depend on the situation at hand
Why? It is because I feel that this world needs improvement. I believe nothing but God the father, his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are perfect, therefore by that logic, everything can improve. I believe we can improve by better ourself, to be more like Christ, and when do better then our perceived best, the Lord will help me do the rest, which I can never dream to do to be like Him.
To base my decision, I will use my best judgement ( which I believe can be flawed, since I am a flawed man ) and inspiration from the Lord if He wishes to inspire me.
I didn't specify, is because I cannot predict or calculate everything, and I am merely a mortal man. If my best judgement brought fires of destruction and despair to this world.....then that will be the consequence. I cannot go back in time, the world and I would just have to accept it, and IF which is unlikely, but IF I get another chance, I will try to change it. Sometimes the best intentions can result in tragedy. I can say I would LIKE to change the world for the better, but the problem is, my better might not be your better, or be the guy next door's better. Someone's better might be to grab ass all day and fuck all night for all I know. Also, the result might be completely different from my intentions due to the fog of war, I cannot tell where the road will lead, I believe only God knows best.
I cannot make statements of what definitely will occur, or what is it in other's points of view.
Everyone is entitled to their choices, and their set of beliefs, I will not force anyone to covert to Christianity, I cannot force them, their soul is theirs, their mind is theirs ultimately. I can influence, I might succeed, I might now, but I cannot ever force someone to truly believe something. I will continue to respect all people and all religions.
Also, not noticeable that I changed it, but rather the world has changed.
Only through time and history can mortal men know. God knows and that is about it, even I don't know the ultimate consequences of my actions.
Who are you to say what I do and don't do?
Are you all knowing and omnipotent?
I don't believe so.
However, I also know what I am, and am not capable of, and what are the pieces at my disposal. I am a fourteen year-old youngster and know full well what I can do and the many things I cannot do, yet.
I will try to craft and rally the pieces necessary, I don't know if I will succeed or not.
I cannot go out and do things outside my limits. However, I know what you mean, making a little difference at a time. Well, just because a man does not go out and hug trees or walk with a big toothy grin down the road handing out flowers ( actually that would be extremely weird ), or go dig a well right now in Africa or something, that doesn't mean I am not doing anything. Building what is necessary to change the world, such as doing well in school, being athletic and in peak physical condition .etc IS ultimately a part of doing something. Actually I don't like grinning at all.
No, it will not. Fame will be a tool, but I will hopefully have many more at my disposal. Again, fame is a tool, not the ultimate goal.
Yes, but I do not know who they are. They could have done so much more, they had the potential. However, they didn't. Nonetheless, they did what they feel was best for society and kudos for that.
A power trip....I might succumb to it, I might defeat it, who knows. I might become a power thirsty demon, or a martyr, who knows, I don't. I can try to avoid being a demon, but who knows if I will succeed. It is all probability and unknown and unidentified variables.
I sometimes do stuff for my ego ( mostly involves the ladies in some way, shape or form
) for a purpose though, I have been told I am arrogant in ways, I have been told that throughout my life actually. I don't deny I am not. You know....life also isn't all just about changing the world, it is the main goal and purpose, but I take time off to satisfy myself, for thrills and enjoyment ( THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE WONDERING, NO I DON'T DO DRUGS ). To keep up my morale, to keep my mental health and to have a refresher.There isn't anything wrong with competing with your buds to see who can wheel the hottest chick to boost your ego. Nothing immoral or unethical about it in the least ( until you turn it into something immoral or unethical ). It is fun and enjoyable. Its a game, where there are multiple good payoffs, you get a hot chick, you have a good laugh with your friends when they fail ( or in the rare case where I fail, almost never happens, but always extremely funny
), you boost your prestige amongst your social circle, your boost your confidence and ego, and last but not least, have a great time with a girl that hopefully will make the time enjoyable and not be a bitch ( in which case get rid of her immediately ), plus you get to make new friends. How is that for payoffs, and those are only a few examples, there are many many more Nothing unethical and immoral about having a good time.
(I don't meaning banging her or anything, I have my morales and my religion, but I meant wheeling, hooking up, you know, nothing sexual, IIRC if it is something sexual, I would get arrested, because I am under the age of consent and I have a rule about no girls older then me except for friends and for dances )
I have to mention this, many will probably agree. There are somethings in this world that you HAVE TO get credit for, certain things when it comes to trills, excitement and enjoyment. You just have to get credit for it, you just have to. There isn't any if or buts, it is solid and sealed. IT WILL actually be wrong for you NOT to get credit, either A) those people are douche bags ( probably not ) or B) You failed ( most likely )
Certain things you just have to get credit for, but this is not the main discussion, so I will get back to what we are talking about here.
However, it is right and smart to use fame and influence to do good. It will move the public more, and reach out to more. In certain, and many situations that is...there are times where the "average joe" is more favored by the public. I have a message for the world, and I will use my tools to build the banner and make it more effective.
I intend for what I do to be a lesson for the world, whether it is a good example, or a bad one, even if I became a power-thirsty monster, I hope society will learn an important lesson for what NOT to do, but hopefully I won't go that far. Hopefully it will be an good example. People need a symbol. Many people get lost in the mundane, day to day life, people need something special, something extraordinary. Whether I succeed or fail, it will be the mandate given to me by society and I believe by the will of God.
It is idealistic in that, it is risky and it might not work at all. Who knows, it is my purpose and it is what keeps my gears turning.
I believe in my God as you believe salt is salty and sugar is sweet. I cannot prove to a man that believe in every fiber of his being that God does not exist, no more then you can convince a man that doesn't believe salt is salty that it is. They have to do it themselves.
If anyone wish to criticize me, feel free to do so, I will try to take it and make me stronger. Nothing can be done by whining and complaining and thinking everyone else are douches, learn from the mistakes and criticisms and build yourself.
P.S. For all those who have a problem with Christianity, that is your problem, I don't care, it is your choice that you made, and I respect that you can make your own choices. I don't have a problem with science, in fact I embrace it as understanding of the work of the Lord. I respect any man's beliefs, as long as it does not harm another's directly. If you want to debate religion, you picked the wrong man, I know how religious debates usually turn out, it doesn't end well.
I believe....well, everyone has an interpretation or ethics and morals, fundamentally who is to say one man's is superior then another's? It is up for individual interpretation. However, I do not believe LAWS are up for grabs in this case, laws affect OTHERS, not just oneself. So therefore, one should not base one's entirety of decision making on ethics on morales, rather, include payoffs ( which include laws, because woe be unto the man who decides to go on a rampage...., and thinking in other people's shoes in a big part ). For me, I believe that if I don't feel my spine tingling and feel guilty and immoral, then it is perfectly moral and ethical, but I don't base my decision making entirely on morals and ethics alone. Each man has a set of them, but the factors that influence payoffs are not determined by you alone...
For those that believe in god....commandments does NOT equal morals and ethics, they might be above your morals and ethics...well too bad for your morals mate. It is moral or ethical is never an excuse.
For those that believe in god....commandments does NOT equal morals and ethics, they might be above your morals and ethics...well too bad for your morals mate. It is moral or ethical is never an excuse.