Atheists turn back to God?

[Enmos]

ahahaha...typical atheistic argument...here it is

"There's no proof God exists"
"So what can be considered as proof?"
"Oh, I don't know, that's your problem, case closed, see there's no proof"

No,

Theist: God exists
Atheist: How so ? Proof it.
Theist: Uhm i cant, please help me out. How do i evidence something ?
Atheist: Shrugs and walks away..



And why should it be my problem ? Im not the one claiming something extraordinairy.

 

[VitalOne]

No,

Theist: God exists
Atheist: How so ? Proof it.
Theist: Uhm i cant, please help me out. How do i evidence something ?
Atheist: Shrugs and walks away..



And why should it be my problem ? Im not the one claiming something extraordinairy.

No, theists say they believe God exists...it's unverifiable, so naturally since there's no way to gather evidence there will be no evidence...just as with the many-worlds interpretation or copenhagen interpretation and many other theories in science....

Atheists make the most extraordinary claim...some how they know God doesn't exist because it's unverifiable and there's no evidence...at least theists admit it's a belief and requires faith...atheists just can't handle that atheism requires faith

 

[Enmos]

No, theists say they believe God exists...it's unverifiable, so naturally since there's no way to gather evidence there will be no evidence...just as with the many-worlds interpretation or copenhagen interpretation and many other theories in science....

Atheists make the most extraordinary claim...some how they know God doesn't exist because it's unverifiable and there's no evidence...at least theists admit it's a belief and requires faith...atheists just can't handle that atheism requires faith

Here we go...
Have i ever said that God doesnt exist ? I think its extremely unlikely that he exists, precisely because there is no shred of evidence. Also, common knowledge nor nature can explain God. It is extraordinairy to assert God exists.

So are you saying theists dont know wether God exists or not ?

 

[VitalOne]

Here we go...
Have i ever said that God doesnt exist ? I think its extremely unlikely that he exists, precisely because there is no shred of evidence.

Argument from ignorance...also how can there evidence for something unverifiable? This is the number 1 atheistic tactic...

Also, common knowledge nor nature can explain God. It is extraordinairy to assert God exists.

It's extraordinary to claim God does or doesn't exist...if it's unverifiable then it means that there's no way to know if it's actually true or false...

So are you saying theists dont know wether God exists or not ?

No...some theists may know others may not know....but I personally know with 100% certainty...

 

[(Q)]

probably because it clearly indicates that there is more to evidencing electrons than turning on light switches

It's a start.

So, when are you going to 'turn on' your god that we may start seeing some evidence there?

Anything? :shrug:

 

[lightgigantic]

Snakelord
“

I guess the first step in such a direction is to provide the general principles that evidence operates under
”
You tell me.

I would have thought that a person making the claim "ther eis no evidence for god" would have nutted that one out ...

“
if you can locate credible sources for such things (scientists, philosophers or great thinkers) that advocate direct perception
”
Same to you with regards to gods - oh, other than self advocated philosophers and great thinkers - because any old idiot can do that.

I see

I guess its just a coincidence that well over 50% of all philosophers (the type one is likely to encounter in libraries, as opposed to chat forums) attest to the existence of something transcendental or spiritual

However:

"Dom Augustine Calmet, a well-respected French theologian and scholar, put together a carefully thought out treatise in 1746, which was at least ambiguous concerning the existence of vampires, if not admitting it explicitly. He amassed reports of vampire incidents and numerous readers, including both a critical Voltaire and supportive demonologists, interpreted the treatise as claiming that vampires exist. In his Philosophical Dictionary, Voltaire wrote on the vampires"

The guy was a scholar, a theologian, well respected and quite philosophical.

That satisfies your requirements, so use vampires instead of electrons heh..

so he ambiguously mentioned vampires huh?
given that you pulled it from wiki, I guess an intelligent person would also weigh this up against what the rest of the article states - but coming from a guy who regards circumcision as essential to judaism, its understandable why you think you have something substantial ...

Of course it's even quite well documented amongst Indians/Hindus - for instance the vetala legends in the Baital Pachisi. Then there's the BrahmarākŞhasa and of course kali.
Anyway, job done. What now?

congratulations

now you just have to uncover the philosophical premises behind such incidents/narrations (which will require something more than wiki searching), since most of the things you mention have nothing to do with vampires

 

[lightgigantic]

It's a start.

So, when are you going to 'turn on' your god that we may start seeing some evidence there?

Anything? :shrug:

god's on already

 

[lightgigantic]

Emnos

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
slow down buddy

you made the claim that I have no evidence for god

I asked how do you propose to determine whether something is evidenced, using something that is relatively easily evidenced, an electron, as an example
”
Correction: YOU claim God exists.

Correction : YOU claim I have no evidence


you even said it again a few posts down

Here we go...
Have i ever said that God doesnt exist ? I think its extremely unlikely that he exists, precisely because there is no shred of evidence.

Therefore the burden of proof is on YOU.

Therefore the first step is for you to establish how something is evidenced - otherwise its kind of like pushing elephant poop up a hill

Since you refuse or are unable to present proof i conclude there is no proof.

kind of difficult when you cannot even provide a framework for establishing how evidence is presented don't you think?

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
its not clear how the discussion can progress unless there is a clear idea how something is evidenced.
”
Well, thats your problem isnt it..

assuming that you don't have a problem with making incoherent statements, I guess so
:shrug:

 

[Enmos]

Argument from ignorance...also how can there evidence for something unverifiable? This is the number 1 atheistic tactic...

What tactic !? I am NOT saying God doesnt exist. I am saying that it is extremely unlikely given the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever and the fact that God is unsupported by nature or common sense.
I am not trying to convert you or anything, i am not deploying any tactics. Im just telling you what i think about the matter.

It's extraordinary to claim God does or doesn't exist...if it's unverifiable then it means that there's no way to know if it's actually true or false...

Exactly. Its extraordinary to claim that God exists and its also extraordinairy to claim that God doesnt exist. We agree on this.

No...some theists may know others may not know....but I personally know with 100% certainty...

You cant KNOW, you just said it yourself.. :bugeye:

 

[Enmos]

Emnos

Correction : YOU claim I have no evidence


you even said it again a few posts down

I was concluding that you had no evidence because you cant (or wont) give it. If you do have evidence show it to me.

Here we go...
Have i ever said that God doesnt exist ? I think its extremely unlikely that he exists, precisely because there is no shred of evidence.[/I]



Therefore the first step is for you to establish how something is evidenced - otherwise its kind of like pushing elephant poop up a hill

kind of difficult when you cannot even provide a framework for establishing how evidence is presented don't you think?

assuming that you don't have a problem with making incoherent statements, I guess so
:shrug:

No, you *** !
The burden of proof is on you, why should i need to establish how something is evidenced !??
You need to establish how you evidence something and then evidence it.
You are seriously *** up !

 

[Enmos]

Dont expect me back until you produce some evidence.

 

[Hapsburg]

The burden of proof falls upon those who have something to prove.
Those who deny the existence of something don't have to prove anything, because you cannot prove a negative, and due to the fact that absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence.

Thus, the burden fall on those who make positive claims.

 

[jayleew]

I'm sure a Google search would give you some atheist turned theists. I know Lee Strobel, journalist, claims that he was atheist first, and that he was saddened when his wife converted...and when he started searching, he claims he has enough "evidence" to make a personal decision to believe.

I believe him, but his evidence is flawed....not saying it's not the truth though...

 

[VitalOne]

What tactic !? I am NOT saying God doesnt exist. I am saying that it is extremely unlikely given the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever and the fact that God is unsupported by nature or common sense.
I am not trying to convert you or anything, i am not deploying any tactics. Im just telling you what i think about the matter.

Hold on for a second...AHAHAHA

Let me get this straight, something is unverifiable so naturally there is no evidence, so that means it's unlikely to exist because you can't verify if it's exists or not? That's like someone saying in the 1700s since it was unverifiable if electromagnetism existed that meant it was unlikely that it did...ahahahahaha

Common sense? Argument from personal incredulity...

 

[Oli]

Hold on for a second...AHAHAHA

Let me get this straight, something is unverifiable so naturally there is no evidence, so that means it's unlikely to exist because you can't verify if it's exists or not? That's like someone saying in the 1700s since it was unverifiable if electromagnetism existed that meant it was unlikely that it did...ahahahahaha

Common sense? Argument from personal incredulity...

Wow, you forgot how to read:

Originally Posted by Enmos
What tactic !? I am NOT saying God doesnt exist. I am saying that it is extremely unlikely given the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever and the fact that God is unsupported by nature or common sense.

No evidence, not unverifiable.
If someone had looked for electromagnetism they'd have found evidence.

 

[lightgigantic]

Emnos
“

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
Emnos

Correction : YOU claim I have no evidence


you even said it again a few posts down

”
I was concluding that you had no evidence because you cant (or wont) give it. If you do have evidence show it to me.

no

I asked you do you propose to determine that something is evidenced (and I gave you the eg of how would you propose that there is evidence for an electron)

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
Here we go...
Have i ever said that God doesnt exist ? I think its extremely unlikely that he exists, precisely because there is no shred of evidence.[/i]



Therefore the first step is for you to establish how something is evidenced - otherwise its kind of like pushing elephant poop up a hill

kind of difficult when you cannot even provide a framework for establishing how evidence is presented don't you think?

assuming that you don't have a problem with making incoherent statements, I guess so

”
No, you *** !
The burden of proof is on you,

and until you can provide a framework on how something is or is not evidenced, how do you propose I present it to you?

why should i need to establish how something is evidenced !??

well, you did say that there is no evidence for god, so its assumed that you work out of a frame work that enables evidence of some sort (unless you have an absurd notion that there is no evidence for anything)

You need to establish how you evidence something and then evidence it.
You are seriously *** up !

and the first logical step would be to establish how something is or is not evidence

(maybe evidence is strong if the person making a claim can throw around a lot of bad language)

but anyway, back to intelligent discourselets get the ball rolling

Emnos is there evidence for electrons?

 

[lightgigantic]

The burden of proof falls upon those who have something to prove.
Those who deny the existence of something don't have to prove anything, because you cannot prove a negative, and due to the fact that absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence.

Thus, the burden fall on those who make positive claims.

Since Emnos made the claim that there is no evidence for god I guess its up to him to elaborate on how he arrived at this conclusion

 

[VitalOne]

What tactic !? I am NOT saying God doesnt exist. I am saying that it is extremely unlikely given the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever and the fact that God is unsupported by nature or common sense.
I am not trying to convert you or anything, i am not deploying any tactics. Im just telling you what i think about the matter.


Exactly. Its extraordinary to claim that God exists and its also extraordinairy to claim that God doesnt exist. We agree on this.



You cant KNOW, you just said it yourself.. :bugeye:

Wow, you forgot how to read:



No evidence, not unverifiable.
If someone had looked for electromagnetism they'd have found evidence.

ahahaha...I think you should learn to read, I addressed him saying it's unlikely that God exists.....therefore I used the electromagnetism comparison to show that you can't measure the likelihood of an unverifiable claim being true...

Also, if people were unable to measure if electromagnetism existed then it would remain unverifiable...just as with God being unverifiable...if you say that God is not unverifiable then tell me what experiment or measure can test if God actually exists or not...if you can't tell me then it means you agree that the existence of God is unverifiable...

 

[Oli]

Keep going: Enmos stated there's no evidence for god.
Different from unverifiable.
Electromagnetism is a strawman, and a poor one: if they'd thought to look they'd have found evidence.
Where's the evidence for god?
People have been looking for ages.

 

[lightgigantic]

Keep going: Enmos stated there's no evidence for god.
Different from unverifiable.
Electromagnetism is a strawman, and a poor one: if they'd thought to look they'd have found evidence.
Where's the evidence for god?

People have been looking for ages.

never encountered a normative description in scripture?