Atheist or Theist. If you are one do you look down on the other?
- Thread starter EmptyForceOfChi
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Did you even read my post? It's a statistical thing, so naming people off the top of your head who were smart and religious does not override the polls that show that stupid people lean towards religion more than smart people.
Why not? What was his IQ, or some other measure of intelligence to exclude hime from the group of 'mindless imbeciles'?
This is a really good question. I think the are alot of people on these forums that indulge in smug superiority, after all knowledge is power and the best representation of a human being is how they use that power. It shows their true character....I think thats a quote I've read somewhere and I think it's true.
While I'm not theist. I do acknowledge the existence of God yet I understand perfectly those that chose to be atheist and the strict scientific perspective as well. If I couldn't relate to a differing position then I would have no business interacting with anyone.
Sasquist, if you're not theist, not atheist, not agnostic, then how would you describe your position?
jan.
I never describe knowledge as belief.
I've taken in considerable amount of information of all sorts and I haven't seen a need to stop yet.
Theist make the mistake of speaking from belief and faith. MAYBE it's at not mistake at all. Maybe that truely is what it is, merely a belief. Maybe they haven't taken in information that should verify it beyond doubt.
The same kinda goes for the atheist. Most atheist merely believe and I'm not saying that as some sort of slight. Many here on this forum still relate their position, verbally, as a belief. Others are more careful. Like Sedistix relates his position as atheist as a lack of belief.
I've taken in considerable amount of information of all sorts and I haven't seen a need to stop yet.
Theist make the mistake of speaking from belief and faith. MAYBE it's at not mistake at all. Maybe that truely is what it is, merely a belief. Maybe they haven't taken in information that should verify it beyond doubt.
The same kinda goes for the atheist. Most atheist merely believe and I'm not saying that as some sort of slight. Many here on this forum still relate their position, verbally, as a belief. Others are more careful. Like Sedistix relates his position as atheist as a lack of belief.
Saquist,
Would a theist do that even when speaking of everyday things, or only in discussions on topics of religion?
Does theism dominate every aspect of a theists life?
I agree. But what is actually wrong with belief?
Is it possible to not believe, or even to have some conviction of knowledge without belief?
But he believes that doesn't he?
And it wouldn't surprise me if he came to that conclusion by reading the words of those whom he respect, who say the same thing.
I'm still not sure how you would describe yourself.
Would a theist do that even when speaking of everyday things, or only in discussions on topics of religion?
Does theism dominate every aspect of a theists life?
I agree. But what is actually wrong with belief?
Is it possible to not believe, or even to have some conviction of knowledge without belief?
But he believes that doesn't he?
And it wouldn't surprise me if he came to that conclusion by reading the words of those whom he respect, who say the same thing.
I'm still not sure how you would describe yourself.
I think most of us make the mistake of refering to certain parts of our knowledge as belief. For the typical theist this does dominate every aspect of their life, to relate things in terms of belief. But the truth is most that believe in God do not excercise that particular muscle. Have you seen some of the stastics on those that believe in God and how often they practice?
Belief often represents an uncertainty of knowledge. How often do you refer to things you're 100% sure of as a belief? Do you 'believe' you live in a certain country, do you 'believe' you have parents or do you know?
Thus I don't believe in God, I know there is a God. It's a totaly different perspective.
Sed relates that he neithers believes in any god nor does not believe in any God....but merely lacks a belief either way which is one of the definitions of atheist. His behavior sometimes....says otherwise.
In anycase I sense it's based on a lack of knowing anything about a god and humans after a period of exposure always make a judgement or apply a label. At this point I "believe" he's now come to a point of disbelief in God.
Belief often represents an uncertainty of knowledge. How often do you refer to things you're 100% sure of as a belief? Do you 'believe' you live in a certain country, do you 'believe' you have parents or do you know?
Thus I don't believe in God, I know there is a God. It's a totaly different perspective.
Sed relates that he neithers believes in any god nor does not believe in any God....but merely lacks a belief either way which is one of the definitions of atheist. His behavior sometimes....says otherwise.
In anycase I sense it's based on a lack of knowing anything about a god and humans after a period of exposure always make a judgement or apply a label. At this point I "believe" he's now come to a point of disbelief in God.
Saquist,
I think that belief is tied into our knowledge, as opposed to being a seperate part of our being. And if that is the case, it would stand to reason that our beliefs dominate, or are active in our everyday lives.
I think what we say we believe, can, and is often, different to how we act in relation to that belief.
This could be due to wanting to come across, as the idea we have of ourselves.
I may have in the past, but I take statistics quite lightly, unless I have some idea how they have conducted the surveys.
I understand what you mean, and am in no position to doubt your knowledge.
But on the issue of belief, I cannot see how it can be separated from knowledge. I know I live in the UK, but I also believe I live in the UK, and I believe that I know I am living in the UK.
How would you describe your relationship with God, if you don't believe in Him?
If he is a self-professed atheist, then I suspect he has something to live up to, in order to be accepted as a modern atheist, which is probably why he explains his position in that manner.
He doesn't believe in God, that's totally understandable, and there can be quite a few reasons for that position. But that's as far as he can go, outside of saying God does not exist, and if he says God does not exist, which is why he doesn't believe, then he believes God doesn't exist, as he cannot know.
If he says he knows God doesn't exist, then his position, on the surface, is no different to your own.
What would you say the difference in position is?
So in a sense, atheism is the position of one who does not believe in God, for whatever reason.
How would you describe modern atheism?
Jan.
I think that belief is tied into our knowledge, as opposed to being a seperate part of our being. And if that is the case, it would stand to reason that our beliefs dominate, or are active in our everyday lives.
I think what we say we believe, can, and is often, different to how we act in relation to that belief.
This could be due to wanting to come across, as the idea we have of ourselves.
I may have in the past, but I take statistics quite lightly, unless I have some idea how they have conducted the surveys.
I understand what you mean, and am in no position to doubt your knowledge.
But on the issue of belief, I cannot see how it can be separated from knowledge. I know I live in the UK, but I also believe I live in the UK, and I believe that I know I am living in the UK.
How would you describe your relationship with God, if you don't believe in Him?
If he is a self-professed atheist, then I suspect he has something to live up to, in order to be accepted as a modern atheist, which is probably why he explains his position in that manner.
He doesn't believe in God, that's totally understandable, and there can be quite a few reasons for that position. But that's as far as he can go, outside of saying God does not exist, and if he says God does not exist, which is why he doesn't believe, then he believes God doesn't exist, as he cannot know.
If he says he knows God doesn't exist, then his position, on the surface, is no different to your own.
What would you say the difference in position is?
So in a sense, atheism is the position of one who does not believe in God, for whatever reason.
How would you describe modern atheism?
Jan.
*************
M*W: G. Washington was a Freemason. I would hardly call him a "devout Christian."
Lincoln gave us a few hints that he, too, was not a "devout Christian." See below:
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession."
and
"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
No. That'd be horrifically prejudiced in a manner that would be staggering in this day and age. A person should be judged on individual merits or individual beliefs, not on vague things like a theological stance.
From experience? Theists look down on atheists as well as other theists whose beliefs are different from thei own. Atheists look down on everybody that believes in something they don't have proof of. There are exceptions, of course. For myself? I try to point out to anyone who will listen that it is silly to disrespect someone's beliefs. To me, it's like disrespecting them based on their favorite soda.
Your understanding of theism is slightly flawed.
Theism is the assertion that God exists.
This assertion can arise through mere belief or through a claim of direct knowledge etc.
If you acknoweldge the existence of God then you are a theist.
Theism is not just a "belief" that god(s) exists... but is often stated as such 'cos the most usual scenario is assertion through faith (i.e. belief) rather than a claim of direct knowledge.
As for the OP:
"Better"? No. Who is anyone to judge someone else's entire personality and ability through their (ir)rational thought processes concerning a matter into which they have likely been indoctrinated since birth.EFoC said:
It takes more than a single "belief" on which to make such grand assessments of someone.
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How do the religious chose of there own free will as you say, to follow X religion, nearly all are indoctrinated into a religion. Where does the choice come into it.
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