Atheism and blind faith

[EmptyForceOfChi]

There is evidence that there isn't a God, there just isn't conclusive proof against such an elusive idea.

One point of evidence is that almost all human cultures have invented mythology of one form or another. This evidence supports the conclusion that God is a man-made concept.

i find this topic very interesting, civilisations did not have contact with each other back then, but if you look closely most religions are very simular and share a common philosophy, it seems very coincidental that they all came to the same conclusion.


peace.

 

[VitalOne]

Vitee, I think you're beating a dead horse in order to fulfil the old "misery loves company" beat. This "atheism is faith based" is an example of theists jumping on the bandwagon of a losing battle, trying to have their cake and make us eat it too.

My two cents worth, let Vitee get it off his chest, sooner or later he'll wake up, smell the coffee and realise his bubble has burst.

Another ad hominem....man just stfu or address the substance of the argument...its not that complex..."oh Vital is dead horse...." that really refutes what I said...hahaha

Wait, didn't you start a thread saying that atheists shouldn't ask for evidence because they should know that none can be given?

Yeah I did...but the point of that post was that atheists won't accept any evidence and say that gathering evidence is impossible...you ask an atheist how to gather evidence of God they say its impossible and then say since there is no evidence God must not exist..wtf?

 

[iceaura]

civilisations did not have contact with each other back then, but if you look closely most religions are very simular and share a common philosophy, it seems very coincidental that they all came to the same conclusion.

There are very few religions that came to the conclusion that there is just one God.

There are more religions that have no God, than just have one. The Abrahamic religions are unusual, in taht and other respects.

But aside from Gods and such, and aside from religions and such, there do seem to be some common principles of recognized wisdom found worldwide. It's better to be kind and honest, for example. Don't be greedy in what you take from nature, is another - don't accumulate wealth in that way.

One very, very common one among societies sophisticated enough for it to be an issue is this: do not allow the lending of money at compound interest.

Yeah I did...but the point of that post was that atheists won't accept any evidence and say that gathering evidence is impossible...

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

 

[Jeremyhfht]

Its definitely ad hominem because it perfectly fits the definition of ad hominem....instead of addressing the substance of the argument you say something like "he doesn't know what he's talking about" "this is utter rubbish", etc....

Since it is utter rubbish, VitalOne. Other threads have discussed similar (if not the same) subjects before either on or off topic.

It's more then "it's not faith", I've dedicated many posts to proving it too.

 

[shaman_]

atheists won't accept any evidence and say that gathering evidence is impossible...

I am an atheist and I don’t think gathering evidence is impossible. I will also accept any evidence, so please refrain from making these generalizations. Thanks.

Atheists say that "belief without evidence" is faith...therefore since atheists "believe that God or god(s) do not exist without any evidence of absence"

That would be proving a negative.

then atheism is nothing more than another faith-based belief system....

Following this logic, refusing to believe that there are fairies in my garden represents a faith based belief system. Refusing to believe that there are aliens living in my pocket also represents a faith based belief system as would resfusing to believe in any imaginable idea that has no evidence to support it.

 

[phlogistician]

"a" means "not" , "anti", and is a negative....

No, 'a' and 'anti' are different. Stop twisting words.

asymmetric means not symmetrical....atheism means anti-theism....

No, atheism is not anti-theism. Stop twisting words.

"a" means "not" or "non"....

Here you contradict yourself.

this doesn't apply to the context of the word "atheism"...

Yes is does, which is why you are twisting words.

by the dictionary the word atheism means exactly what I'm saying it means....

No it doesn't. You are twisting words, and you are wrong. Just accept that, and try and build a reasonable argument on a correct premise. All you have at the moment is lame attempt to build a straw man, and it has been torn down.

 

[phlogistician]

the point of that post was that atheists won't accept any evidence

What evidence? There is nothing compelling.

and say that gathering evidence is impossible

Nope, that would be an agnostics viewpoint, not an atheists. Stop twisting words and try and debate honestly.

...you ask an atheist how to gather evidence of God

Why would an atheist want to try and prove or disprove it? You make the claims, it's up to you to provide the proof.

and then say since there is no evidence God must not exist..wtf?

How many more times, no! Atheists do not believe in God. That does not imply they think he must not exist. I do not believe he exists, that is my statement, just like I do not believe any of the other gods ever described to me exist.

 

[Satyr]

I have “blind faith” on what my…eyes and ears and nose and fingers sense….in other words I’m blindly devoted to my sight and to all my senses.

I could be blindly devoted to my imagination, showing me worlds and realities I hope exist and would prefer existed, but I’m ashamed of daydreaming my life away.

 

[spidergoat]

There's lots of theories putting consciousness existing outside of the brain...lots of theoreis putting all of existence coming from within you....lots of evidence for design like the problem of induction....etc.....

However this doesn't matter to an atheist...they some how "know" that it can't be true...

I don't know that. Those theories sound interesting, but they aren't tenets of faith.

i find this topic very interesting, civilisations did not have contact with each other back then, but if you look closely most religions are very simular and share a common philosophy, it seems very coincidental that they all came to the same conclusion.


peace.

I think the commonality is superstition, not a philosophical conclusion. So long ago, no one knew what was going on, what caused disease or even weather, they made up stories based on wishful thinking and faulty logic. This happens even today. A baseball player does something trivial and then has a good game, then they think a good game is dependent on doing that trivial thing.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

There are very few religions that came to the conclusion that there is just one God.

There are more religions that have no God, than just have one. The Abrahamic religions are unusual, in taht and other respects.

But aside from Gods and such, and aside from religions and such, there do seem to be some common principles of recognized wisdom found worldwide. It's better to be kind and honest, for example. Don't be greedy in what you take from nature, is another - don't accumulate wealth in that way.

One very, very common one among societies sophisticated enough for it to be an issue is this: do not allow the lending of money at compound interest.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

this is not true, even the religions that have many god like hinduism also believe in a main god that gave birth to all of the other gods. and also the universe, the unseen immortal infinite god.

islam,
judaism,
hinduism.
christianity.
taoism,
native american religion,
aboriginal religion,
african tribal religions


the above all believe in 1 god that rules all others, and a single god that is immortal and infinite,

peace.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I have “blind faith” on what my…eyes and ears and nose and fingers sense….in other words I’m blindly devoted to my sight and to all my senses.

I could be blindly devoted to my imagination, showing me worlds and realities I hope exist and would prefer existed, but I’m ashamed of daydreaming my life away.

your five senses can all trick you, they can all be influenced by illusion and false reality.

peace.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I don't know that. Those theories sound interesting, but they aren't tenets of faith.



I think the commonality is superstition, not a philosophical conclusion. So long ago, no one knew what was going on, what caused disease or even weather, they made up stories based on wishful thinking and faulty logic. This happens even today. A baseball player does something trivial and then has a good game, then they think a good game is dependent on doing that trivial thing.

the imagination can come up with many things, dont you find it a little strange that nearly 80-90% of society found religion and belief in a higher existence and power?


peace.

 

[Exploradora]

this is not true, even the religions that have many god like hinduism also believe in a main god that gave birth to all of the other gods. and also the universe, the unseen immortal infinite god.

islam,
judaism,
hinduism.
christianity.
taoism,
native american religion,
aboriginal religion,
african tribal religions


the above all believe in 1 god that rules all others, and a single god that is immortal and infinite,

peace.

That is a pretty simplistic review of all major religions. Different religions attribute different traits to a God or Goddess or Supreme Force or whatnot. Native American RELIGIONS vary greatly from tribe to tribe. As do almost all tribal spiritual systems. And, just because one God is boss doesn't mean that they do not believe in multiple gods. It may be news, but Christianity is not monotheistic. There are three Gods directly referred to in Christianity, and if you read the bible you find that God is described in multiple ways with conflicting personality traits. Is the God of the old testament, the God that killed a women for "looking back" the same loving father Jesus talks about??? Jesus was the son of God, he was divine, so litterally Jesus was a walking, talking God. And he was God's SON, not an incarnation of God. If he was an incarnation of God then Jesus would have been referred to AS God, not as the Son of God. Plus the holy spirit, which no one quite understands aside from the fact it can make people "talk in tounges".

So yes, Christianity may be the largest polytheistic religion on earth. I am not saying that are Christians are polytheists, but if you believe in the literalness of the bible I do not understand how you do not become polytheistic.

 

[spidergoat]

the imagination can come up with many things, dont you find it a little strange that nearly 80-90% of society found religion and belief in a higher existence and power?


peace.

Most of human history is strange. However, I'm not surprised. "Higher power" can mean anything from witches and ghosts to the spirits of fallen warriors. It's an attempt to fill our thirst for answers in the absense of real knowledge (or the tools to aquire it).

 

[VitalOne]

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

I'm not bearing false witness, but true witness....tell an atheist about the evidence for design, for consciousness existing independently of the brain, etc....they could careless and will likely say something like "no need to evoke an intelligent cause or God" otherwise then they'd be agnostic at least and consider that some type of God or higher force could exist...instead they choose to deny any evidence for God...

Since it is utter rubbish, VitalOne. Other threads have discussed similar (if not the same) subjects before either on or off topic.

It's more then "it's not faith", I've dedicated many posts to proving it too.

Another ad hominem......damn at least provide sources of the posts...

I am an atheist and I don’t think gathering evidence is impossible. I will also accept any evidence, so please refrain from making these generalizations. Thanks.

Really? Do you accept the evidence for design like how if gravitational, nuclear force, electromagnetic, etc...constants were a little bit stronger or weaker how there could be no existence?
Or how about the possibility of a soul or mind existing indpendently of the brain (which a few theories postulate)....if it were true it would mean that there is an afterlife?

If you really don't think gathering evidence is impossible then give me an example of empirical evidence that would completely falsify atheism...

That would be proving a negative.

No its not proving a negative.....just giving evidence of absence...

Following this logic, refusing to believe that there are fairies in my garden represents a faith based belief system. Refusing to believe that there are aliens living in my pocket also represents a faith based belief system as would resfusing to believe in any imaginable idea that has no evidence to support it.

Yes this is true...if you refuse to believe it without any evidence of absence then it is faith ("belief without evidence") based by definition....

I have “blind faith” on what my…eyes and ears and nose and fingers sense….in other words I’m blindly devoted to my sight and to all my senses.

I could be blindly devoted to my imagination, showing me worlds and realities I hope exist and would prefer existed, but I’m ashamed of daydreaming my life away.

So you are deluded by the senses alone and see nothing beyond it?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

That is a pretty simplistic review of all major religions. Different religions attribute different traits to a God or Goddess or Supreme Force or whatnot. Native American RELIGIONS vary greatly from tribe to tribe. As do almost all tribal spiritual systems. And, just because one God is boss doesn't mean that they do not believe in multiple gods. It may be news, but Christianity is not monotheistic. There are three Gods directly referred to in Christianity, and if you read the bible you find that God is described in multiple ways with conflicting personality traits. Is the God of the old testament, the God that killed a women for "looking back" the same loving father Jesus talks about??? Jesus was the son of God, he was divine, so litterally Jesus was a walking, talking God. And he was God's SON, not an incarnation of God. If he was an incarnation of God then Jesus would have been referred to AS God, not as the Son of God. Plus the holy spirit, which no one quite understands aside from the fact it can make people "talk in tounges".

So yes, Christianity may be the largest polytheistic religion on earth. I am not saying that are Christians are polytheists, but if you believe in the literalness of the bible I do not understand how you do not become polytheistic.

and?

my point was that even the multiple god religions believe in a single higher god that rules over everything.

in hinduism all of the other gods are just outer manifests of the unseen ultimate god. same goes with most other multiple god religions. christians believe in higher biengs wich are created by god and are above humans like angels and shit,


all religion is very very simular.


peace.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Most of human history is strange. However, I'm not surprised. "Higher power" can mean anything from witches and ghosts to the spirits of fallen warriors. It's an attempt to fill our thirst for answers in the absense of real knowledge (or the tools to aquire it).

but most ancient people came to pretty much the same conclusion. that there is a high power that created us all, and he also created biengs that are above us, like demi gods, angels or lesser gods,

an afterlife for the good, and an afterlife for the bad, karmic reactions for good and bad behaviour.


its all very simular, strip down all of the bs within all religion and you are left with the same basic core.


im not giving a total reason for any of this i am just kinda saying its all very simular isnt it, and its interesting how people with no contact came to the same philosophical concept.

peace.

 

[Satyr]

your five senses can all trick you, they can all be influenced by illusion and false reality.

peace.

Yes they may...but they also may not.
Retard, if the senses were all that wrong mankind would not have survived for so long nor would man have created this civilization with these technologies.

But I'm glad you remain skeptical in relation to your senses - you don't have much sense anyways. I wonder if you are as skeptical in relation to your imaginations and delusions and what mommy and daddy told you about God.

“
Originally Posted by Satyr
I have “blind faith” on what my…eyes and ears and nose and fingers sense….in other words I’m blindly devoted to my sight and to all my senses.

I could be blindly devoted to my imagination, showing me worlds and realities I hope exist and would prefer existed, but I’m ashamed of daydreaming my life away.
”
So you are deluded by the senses alone and see nothing beyond it?

Wow...another retard that "sees" things beyond sight.
With his sixth sense, I presume.
He senses it.
He only has five senses to go on, and yet he imagines somehting behind the appearances.
He, sort of, hopes it into plausibility.

When I see a car heading my way, I do not assume it is being driven by a four legged, zombie just because I do not see the driver.
I look closer. If, still, I do not see, I postpone judgment.

but most ancient people came to pretty much the same conclusion. that there is a high power that created us all, and he also created biengs that are above us, like demi gods, angels or lesser gods,

an afterlife for the good, and an afterlife for the bad, karmic reactions for good and bad behaviour.


its all very simular, strip down all of the bs within all religion and you are left with the same basic core.


im not giving a total reason for any of this i am just kinda saying its all very simular isnt it, and its interesting how people with no contact came to the same philosophical concept.

peace.

Maybe you should read some Jung, shit-for-brains.

What is common in all these ancient peoples?
Their humanity; their shared condition; their ancestry; their environment?

Shit-for-brains, the primitives experienced floods, let us say, because woe and behold, humans require water and so congregated around rivers and lakes.
So floods were common occurances for all these peoples no matter where they lived. And these floods were devastating to their primitive existences.

From that the myths of the deluge emerge as a common mythological theme...imagine that.

Oh, how little minds use words like "karma" or "pretty much" with such naive abandonment to their fears and expectations, wihtout ever defining them or dissecting them to find what these words mean and what concepts they express.

Karma: Golden Rule...perhaps? or a magical energy?
Imagine beleiving that the way you react towards the environment affects how it reacts back and calling this Karma.
Imagine that.

"He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword" .....Karma? or divine retribution?
Imagine thinknig that if you help ten people one of them might...just might reciprocate.....Karma? or magical goldy justice?

But let us strudy this "same basic core", shit-for-brains mentiones.

When humans saw fire they thuoght it a spirit or a god.
When they saw an eclipse they thuoght spirits caused it.
When they percieved the inexplicable they imagined deities and spirits.
When they fell ill they imagined sin or posessions.

Common core?
Ignorance and fear...perchance?
Yes the common core underlying religions is human frailty and human ignorance.
Imagine that.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

The most striking similarity amongst religions is how willing they are to kill to defend or promote their beliefs. I think nature is trying to tell us something like 'religion is wrong, you boneheads'.

 

[John99]

i find this topic very interesting, civilisations did not have contact with each other back then, but if you look closely most religions are very simular and share a common philosophy, it seems very coincidental that they all came to the same conclusion.


peace.

That is amazing. How do you explain that?

Seems as natural as a small child crawling across a field only stopping to eat a mushroom.