Originally posted by wesmorris
You have thinking skills?
Wow!
Love
Jan Ardena.
Arguement from EVIL
- Thread starter MooseKnuckle
- Start date
The way I see it, everyone here seems to be confusing themselves about the very reason for this post: Evil is not as open to interpretation as all this! Some people should stop babbling about 'natural evil' - there is no such thing. Nature is completely indiscriminate. Ok, so natural progression weeds out the week and useless, but this is besides the point: Nature does not sit back and think "Oh I don't like the look of that baby over there, I'd better give it cancer". All the organisms on this planet do what they need to do to survive. To the cancer itself, it is not evil.
Evil is what happens when an entity conscientiously decides to go against the grain. People killing people out of malice and for pleasure - this is not helpful to the progression of the human race, or the planet as a whole, therefore it is evil.
This is the only 'evil' that can be used if one wants to endulge in the argument against God's existence.
Oh, and as for Free Will? Yeah, we all know how this one goes too: If God was all powerful he'd find a way to give us free will, whilst still keeping us from committing evil acts. An impossible situation for us, maybe, but I'm sure God could figure it out somehow! LOL!
Evil is what happens when an entity conscientiously decides to go against the grain. People killing people out of malice and for pleasure - this is not helpful to the progression of the human race, or the planet as a whole, therefore it is evil.
This is the only 'evil' that can be used if one wants to endulge in the argument against God's existence.
Oh, and as for Free Will? Yeah, we all know how this one goes too: If God was all powerful he'd find a way to give us free will, whilst still keeping us from committing evil acts. An impossible situation for us, maybe, but I'm sure God could figure it out somehow! LOL!
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MooseKnuckle,
If I say that depends on belief, you will say that it doesn't, so I guess this is a pretty pointless discussion and we should stop right here...
Argue from EVIL!!!
You said:
The problem of evil is one of the most troublesome problems that faces anyone that believes that there exists an all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful God who created the world we inhabit.
premise
1. An all good, all knowing, and all powerful God exists
2. There exists evil in the world
The existence of evil in the world does not logically exclude the existance of God, but such evil makes it extremely improbably that God exists. Statement (2) should be thought of as strong evidence against statement (1)
From this arguement many(I included) believe that it is quite unreasonable and illogical to believe in God as we know him.
..............................
I say:
You list as premises 1.) That GOD exists, and that 2.) Evil exist in the world
Your next paragraph is and I quote: "The existence of evil in the world does not logically exclude the existance of God, but such evil makes it extremely improbably that God exists. Statement (2) should be thought of as strong evidence against statement (1)"
You seem to say that you believe that Evil does exist??? If so then # 2 premise would not be a premise at all. A premise is something assumed or taken for granted.
What is confusing is that you call them Premises and in the next paragraph call them statements, which is it?? statements or premises??
Am I to assume that you don't accept premise 1 but do accept premise 2??? And in fact your non-acceptance of premise 1 is based upon your acceptance of premise 2.
So, YOU see Evil in the world but not the opposite, right? How can see evil without it's opposite??? You can't have COLD without HOT, can you? Evil can't exist without something GOOD to compare it too???....joerecc
You said:
The problem of evil is one of the most troublesome problems that faces anyone that believes that there exists an all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful God who created the world we inhabit.
premise
1. An all good, all knowing, and all powerful God exists
2. There exists evil in the world
The existence of evil in the world does not logically exclude the existance of God, but such evil makes it extremely improbably that God exists. Statement (2) should be thought of as strong evidence against statement (1)
From this arguement many(I included) believe that it is quite unreasonable and illogical to believe in God as we know him.
..............................
I say:
You list as premises 1.) That GOD exists, and that 2.) Evil exist in the world
Your next paragraph is and I quote: "The existence of evil in the world does not logically exclude the existance of God, but such evil makes it extremely improbably that God exists. Statement (2) should be thought of as strong evidence against statement (1)"
You seem to say that you believe that Evil does exist??? If so then # 2 premise would not be a premise at all. A premise is something assumed or taken for granted.
What is confusing is that you call them Premises and in the next paragraph call them statements, which is it?? statements or premises??
Am I to assume that you don't accept premise 1 but do accept premise 2??? And in fact your non-acceptance of premise 1 is based upon your acceptance of premise 2.
So, YOU see Evil in the world but not the opposite, right? How can see evil without it's opposite??? You can't have COLD without HOT, can you? Evil can't exist without something GOOD to compare it too???....joerecc
I hope you realize you've built yourself a fragile little bubble of belief based upon circular reasoning here. A little self-contained world of twisted logic which (if you truly believe and are not simply using as an argumentative device) you will find yourself trapped in. Be careful TS, I used to find your gospel of love to be a bit naive but otherwise healthy and positive. But the self-confirming rationalizations that you seem to have built for yourself are extraordinarily fragile and I fear you are setting yourself up for a catastrophic awakening when real events collapse that bubble.Originally posted by TruthSeeker
But if you really do believe in God you can do things that almost surpass your own imagination. For example, it is written "NO weapon shall prosper aginst you". Which weapon comes to your mind? Maybe a sword? Well, for me it comes... a nuclear bomb!
I hope you also realize that what you are saying is that God confers absolute protection from any physical or (I'm assuming) moral danger based solely upon the strength of belief of the individual yet is willing to utterly abandon that individual if they dare to test their faith or suffer a dilemma that shakes their belief.
That is not love. Love holds true despite the failings of the individual, it doesn't abandon them when they need support the most. If this is a depiction of your God of love then your God is a sociopath.
~Raithere
MooseKnuckle
Registered Senior Member
What are those, if you don’t mind me asking?
I feel the best way to sum up my beliefs to to quote Richard Dawkins
"Some people believe in God because of what appears to them to be an inner revelation. Such revelations are not always edifying but they undoubtedly feel real to the individual concerned. Many inhabitants of lunatic asylums have an unshakable inner faith that they are Napoleon or, indeed, God himself. There is no doubting the power of such convictions for those that have them, but this is no reason for the rest of us to believe them. Indeed, since such beliefs are mutually contradictory, we can't believe them all."
"The details of the early phase of the universe belong to the realm of physics, whereas I am a biologist, more concerned with the later phases of the evolution of complexity. For me, the important point is that, even if the physicist needs to postulate an irreducible minimum that had to be present in the beginning, in order for the universe to get started, that irreducible minimum is certainly extremely simple. By definition, explanations that build on simple premises are more plausible and more satisfying than explanations that have to postulate complex and statistically improbable beginnings. And you can't get much more complex than an Almighty God!"
"Science offers us an explanation of how complexity (the difficult) arose out of simplicity (the easy). The hypothesis of God offers no worthwhile explanation for anything, for it simply postulates what we are trying to explain. It postulates the difficult to explain, and leaves it at that. We cannot prove that there is no God, but we can safely conclude the He is very, very improbable indeed."
Maybe the theists you’ve met, how many would that be, 100, 500, 1000 maybe, I’m quite sure whatever the amount, it is not enough to seriously give credit to a statement like that.
And the trend of giving weak answers continues.....
I think this lack of evidence for the existence of God, atheists keep talking about, is an excuse, because when asked what kind of evidence they want, it is usually nothing short of God materialising before their eyes, they are not interested in understanding who and what God is. But I for one do not have a problem with this, as I have been in that state of mind, and understand it
The state of mind to accept something without any good reason other than because it makes you feel secure? I dont need some extradordinary evidence, but i have yet to come across some good evidence to believe in a supreme being. You need to see that the idea of God does not hold so much weight in our current society where answers are being brought out by other means.
Where does it lead then?
To the lack of consciousness. We as individuals will lack to exist.
No, you ignore my questions, because you have no answers, because you don’t really know what you’re talking about.
Come on get mad, im sure your god would be proud of your hypocrisy. And somehow you know what your talking about?? You aint got nothing on me, you know why? cause you are a diluted person, believe what you will, but dont get mad when others take the more intelligent position, im soooorrrrrryyy if im actually searching for the truth and have not settled on some wishful thinking.
"Whose yelling at atheists, you made a point, I questioned it, and you now your lost, end of story.
What makes you think only atheists are logical and skeptical when religious beliefs aren’t backed up with a quality explanation?
Your full of silly generalisations"
Far from lost. I think that atheists are only logical and skeptical when religious beliefs arent backed up with a quality explanation because theists do not have a quality explanation for any of the questions that they believe to be truth. They have nothing but a lack of understanding.
I feel the best way to sum up my beliefs to to quote Richard Dawkins
"Some people believe in God because of what appears to them to be an inner revelation. Such revelations are not always edifying but they undoubtedly feel real to the individual concerned. Many inhabitants of lunatic asylums have an unshakable inner faith that they are Napoleon or, indeed, God himself. There is no doubting the power of such convictions for those that have them, but this is no reason for the rest of us to believe them. Indeed, since such beliefs are mutually contradictory, we can't believe them all."
"The details of the early phase of the universe belong to the realm of physics, whereas I am a biologist, more concerned with the later phases of the evolution of complexity. For me, the important point is that, even if the physicist needs to postulate an irreducible minimum that had to be present in the beginning, in order for the universe to get started, that irreducible minimum is certainly extremely simple. By definition, explanations that build on simple premises are more plausible and more satisfying than explanations that have to postulate complex and statistically improbable beginnings. And you can't get much more complex than an Almighty God!"
"Science offers us an explanation of how complexity (the difficult) arose out of simplicity (the easy). The hypothesis of God offers no worthwhile explanation for anything, for it simply postulates what we are trying to explain. It postulates the difficult to explain, and leaves it at that. We cannot prove that there is no God, but we can safely conclude the He is very, very improbable indeed."
Maybe the theists you’ve met, how many would that be, 100, 500, 1000 maybe, I’m quite sure whatever the amount, it is not enough to seriously give credit to a statement like that.
And the trend of giving weak answers continues.....
I think this lack of evidence for the existence of God, atheists keep talking about, is an excuse, because when asked what kind of evidence they want, it is usually nothing short of God materialising before their eyes, they are not interested in understanding who and what God is. But I for one do not have a problem with this, as I have been in that state of mind, and understand it
The state of mind to accept something without any good reason other than because it makes you feel secure? I dont need some extradordinary evidence, but i have yet to come across some good evidence to believe in a supreme being. You need to see that the idea of God does not hold so much weight in our current society where answers are being brought out by other means.
Where does it lead then?
To the lack of consciousness. We as individuals will lack to exist.
No, you ignore my questions, because you have no answers, because you don’t really know what you’re talking about.
Come on get mad, im sure your god would be proud of your hypocrisy. And somehow you know what your talking about?? You aint got nothing on me, you know why? cause you are a diluted person, believe what you will, but dont get mad when others take the more intelligent position, im soooorrrrrryyy if im actually searching for the truth and have not settled on some wishful thinking.
"Whose yelling at atheists, you made a point, I questioned it, and you now your lost, end of story.
What makes you think only atheists are logical and skeptical when religious beliefs aren’t backed up with a quality explanation?
Your full of silly generalisations"
Far from lost. I think that atheists are only logical and skeptical when religious beliefs arent backed up with a quality explanation because theists do not have a quality explanation for any of the questions that they believe to be truth. They have nothing but a lack of understanding.
Raithere,
Who said God loves like that? He doesn't abandoned me when i need most, who said that?
My son died.... I needed god more than anyone else on this planet. Where was he then?
There's the fucking answer. You're special.... wooohoo. What about us ignorant people that aint christian?
Where was your god then heh? When i begged, i cried, i pleaded..... I needed so much......... nobody gave a fuck- least of all your god.
Let me guess.... vacation?
There's the fucking answer. You're special.... wooohoo. What about us ignorant people that aint christian?
Where was your god then heh? When i begged, i cried, i pleaded..... I needed so much......... nobody gave a fuck- least of all your god.
Let me guess.... vacation?
MooseKnuckle
Registered Senior Member
Snakelord-
Im really sorry to hear that.
Im really sorry to hear that.
No no, dont get it wrong..... It's been 5 years now- i'm not in need of sympathy. Thanks all the same but it isn't needed.
However i do think what i said deserves an answer from the religious aspect. Truthseeker: If you have those ultimate words of wisdom to share there's no better time than now.
I was very one sided..... I neglected to mention my wife and how she felt. Have you really ever seen someone fall down and cry with true want for god? What is a person to think when there is no response? Let me guess..... it's a problem on our side right? Lack of focus? Ears/heart/soul/brain not tuned in the right direction? What?
It's amazing.... The majority of religious folk, (those who weren't born into it), found their faith through tragedy. The time when we are most subsceptible, at our most mentally frail. It's not like a guy is walking along on some sunny day and hears god- the faith always arrives with car crashes, drug overdoses and the like.
I made a thread asking people when they found their faith but out of 70+ views there were only 4 unique replies. I wonder why people seem afraid or unwilling to state where that faith came from.
You and i are no different, and no matter what you might think you are not above me. So, having said that, why does god answer you but ignores my wife and i when we truly need him?
You know what i learnt through it all? I shall tell you....
I learnt that the human mind is amazing. I learnt that HUMANS are amazing. While you needed that external comfort and now spend more of your life thinking about whats above instead of focusing on whats in front of you, i realise what we have is right in front of our eyes: Each other0- mankind, humans, homo sapien. I can rely and put trust and 'faith' in my wife. She can do the same with me. Neither of us 'NEED' something external- we have found all the power in the universe; it is within us. When we were fragile we did need God. When we are in control of our own being we do not. I don't need to believe im going to live for eternity. I do not need to believe i will meet my son some day in heaven. He's dead. End of story.
I might not be all seeing, all knowing, all powerful but i am human. I am proud to be, i dont give a fuck who says that's a sin. I am damn proud to be alive, damn proud to be human. I don't need to thank anyone or anything for that- i just need to appreciate it.
However i do think what i said deserves an answer from the religious aspect. Truthseeker: If you have those ultimate words of wisdom to share there's no better time than now.
I was very one sided..... I neglected to mention my wife and how she felt. Have you really ever seen someone fall down and cry with true want for god? What is a person to think when there is no response? Let me guess..... it's a problem on our side right? Lack of focus? Ears/heart/soul/brain not tuned in the right direction? What?
It's amazing.... The majority of religious folk, (those who weren't born into it), found their faith through tragedy. The time when we are most subsceptible, at our most mentally frail. It's not like a guy is walking along on some sunny day and hears god- the faith always arrives with car crashes, drug overdoses and the like.
I made a thread asking people when they found their faith but out of 70+ views there were only 4 unique replies. I wonder why people seem afraid or unwilling to state where that faith came from.
You and i are no different, and no matter what you might think you are not above me. So, having said that, why does god answer you but ignores my wife and i when we truly need him?
You know what i learnt through it all? I shall tell you....
I learnt that the human mind is amazing. I learnt that HUMANS are amazing. While you needed that external comfort and now spend more of your life thinking about whats above instead of focusing on whats in front of you, i realise what we have is right in front of our eyes: Each other0- mankind, humans, homo sapien. I can rely and put trust and 'faith' in my wife. She can do the same with me. Neither of us 'NEED' something external- we have found all the power in the universe; it is within us. When we were fragile we did need God. When we are in control of our own being we do not. I don't need to believe im going to live for eternity. I do not need to believe i will meet my son some day in heaven. He's dead. End of story.
I might not be all seeing, all knowing, all powerful but i am human. I am proud to be, i dont give a fuck who says that's a sin. I am damn proud to be alive, damn proud to be human. I don't need to thank anyone or anything for that- i just need to appreciate it.
And He wants you to appreciate being human. Honestly, it is not easy for me to answer your question. I've been speaking with God since I was a little kid, it is a natural thing for me. I believe children speak with God, but when they tell their parents about their "imaginary friend" the parents usually put it down. With me, that didn't happen. It was my secret all along. My parents are sweet anyways, so if I would tell them, maybe they would understand me and not put me down.
But anyways... I always wanted to have a kid. It is my life dream to be father. I don't think it is easy for you. Of course I can't even imagine what you feel. What you are saying is definetly not sinful. You are showing what's inside you and that's nice to do. But I can't give you an answer because this is above what I can comprehend right now.
If you really seek God, I would advise you to go to a church, but if anyone in a church condemn you, just go away and shake the dust out of your feet. Where you feel accepted and Loved, that's where you will find God. If a "Christian" condemns you, that person is not really a Christian. In John 8:3-11 Jesus didn't condemn an adulterous woman. He used to eat and drink with sinners. They always felt accepted by Him. If you find a Christian, you should also feel Loved and accepted, because Christ lives in all Christians: Galatians 2:20.
I see that you seek Him, and I hope you will find Him. God doesn't ignore you. He Loves you, He Loves everybody. He is our Father and He cares about us. I will keep you in my prayers.
Love,
Nelson
But anyways... I always wanted to have a kid. It is my life dream to be father. I don't think it is easy for you. Of course I can't even imagine what you feel. What you are saying is definetly not sinful. You are showing what's inside you and that's nice to do. But I can't give you an answer because this is above what I can comprehend right now.
If you really seek God, I would advise you to go to a church, but if anyone in a church condemn you, just go away and shake the dust out of your feet. Where you feel accepted and Loved, that's where you will find God. If a "Christian" condemns you, that person is not really a Christian. In John 8:3-11 Jesus didn't condemn an adulterous woman. He used to eat and drink with sinners. They always felt accepted by Him. If you find a Christian, you should also feel Loved and accepted, because Christ lives in all Christians: Galatians 2:20.
I see that you seek Him, and I hope you will find Him. God doesn't ignore you. He Loves you, He Loves everybody. He is our Father and He cares about us. I will keep you in my prayers.
Love,
Nelson
Oh i see.... so he killed my child? Good reasoning.
Yesterday my three year old daughter said, (and i quote exact words): "I love Father Christmas because he got me my barbie dolls." If i never tell her he doesn't exist why would she doubt him?
Fair enough.
Or a Mosque, Synnagogue, Himalayan Temple........... Does he solely hang around in churches?
In general i find christians self righteous, arrogant, ignorant, closed minded, devaluers of human ability and the human 'being'. Not my type of people. Also..... What in the world is 'accepted'? What a word to use.. Am i applying for university?
Furthermore until someone can adquately prove otherwise Christ is nothing more than a dead hippy.
No i dont. Oops... Wonder what else you see that isn't actually 'real'.
.......... lol k.
No, my father is some dude from Scotland. That's a fact.
You are not a father yet.... shall i tell you what a father is? Ok, here goes:
A father is someone who will talk to, love and comfort his children all the time. They do NOT need to find him, search for him, want him. He will always be there and undertake his responsibility as a father. He wont write coded messages in books, he wont drown his children- even when they're naughty and go against him, and he wont talk to his children only if they're christian.
No offence but i'd rather you didn't.
POINT AND MATCH
I believe that Snake's last post has officially put the athiest camp over the top! Yes ladies and gentlemen, while the debate has raged on before us for millenia.. we are the lucky few to bear witness to the actual ending of the debate due to reason's excrutiatingly slow victory over dogmatic mind control. Yes, YOU will be able to tell your grandchildren "I was there when it happend... it was really cool.". Thanks again every one for attending, don't forget to tip the athiests... for having done you a valuable service!!!!!!!!!!!
Goodnight!!!!!!!!!!!
*sigh*
Dare to dream brother.
I believe that Snake's last post has officially put the athiest camp over the top! Yes ladies and gentlemen, while the debate has raged on before us for millenia.. we are the lucky few to bear witness to the actual ending of the debate due to reason's excrutiatingly slow victory over dogmatic mind control. Yes, YOU will be able to tell your grandchildren "I was there when it happend... it was really cool.". Thanks again every one for attending, don't forget to tip the athiests... for having done you a valuable service!!!!!!!!!!!
Goodnight!!!!!!!!!!!
*sigh*
Dare to dream brother.
Quite frankly, you did. At least if I understand what it is you have said. Let's see if I got it right:
What you said is that God grants people physical immunity from harm based upon the strength of their belief. Ergo he does not grant this immunity to those whose belief is less strong or foundering for some reason, essentially abandoning them for this failure.
You also stated that one cannot test God, that is, one cannot purposefully put one's self in harms way simply to prove that God will indeed protect them and that he will, in fact, withdraw his protection in such instances. I would point out that someone who would do so is either be trying to test their own convictions or impress the opinion of others. In either case, once again it seems that God withdraws the very proof of his existence from those who are in the most need.
In my opinion, this is not loving behavior. The parent does not leave their child to harm simply because the child put itself in harms way or is insecure about their protection. No. Instead this sounds like the behavior of a sociopath, valuing all others only in terms of self.
~Raithere
I know you were not trying to elicit sympathy but I felt like saying this none-the-less: Religion's hope rings hollow to one who has lost someone truly loved (I too know). The best they have to offer is the promise that we will meet again (unless of course one of you disbelieves). Such promises mean little in the face of grief yet many will cling to them; a drowning man will grasp any line thrown to him.
Rather than that, however, I would instead offer this: The story is never over, or at least not until humanity ends and maybe not even then. Every thing we do and say moves beyond us. The reach of a single life, no matter how brief, is infinite. Your son's life is in you and now in us, though you. There is a powerful meaning therein; life goes on and he is a part of it. I don't say this to try to minimize your loss; I cannot and would not devalue his life in that way. Instead, simply know that others share in your joy and your grief and take some solace in the fact that the measure of his life is unending.
~Raithere
MooseKnuckle
Registered Senior Member
TruthSeeker-
If I say that depends on belief, you will say that it doesn't, so I guess this is a pretty pointless discussion and we should stop right here...
This discussion shouldnt end on, I say, you say, give me your reasons for believing such a claim and i will respond, just dont be shocked when someone takes an opposing opinion of such a grandiose view of things. You know it is a little "different" to say the things you have said, I think it takes at least an explanation and not just you reaffirming that you believe and thats that.
If I say that depends on belief, you will say that it doesn't, so I guess this is a pretty pointless discussion and we should stop right here...
This discussion shouldnt end on, I say, you say, give me your reasons for believing such a claim and i will respond, just dont be shocked when someone takes an opposing opinion of such a grandiose view of things. You know it is a little "different" to say the things you have said, I think it takes at least an explanation and not just you reaffirming that you believe and thats that.
SankeLord,
James 1:17
"17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. "
He would never do such thing.
"Accepted" is feel that others have interest in you and support you and so on. Is to feel Loved. It is the opposite of "condemned".
No He didn't.
James 1:17
"17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. "
He would never do such thing.
Who told her about Santa Claus? Anyone told me about God when I was 2, 3 years old. But many told me about Sanat Claus.
The others will give you a set of rules and tell you a bunch of things that are not necessarily true.
Christ wasn't like that. If they are followers of Christ, they should follow Christ's steps.
"Accepted" is feel that others have interest in you and support you and so on. Is to feel Loved. It is the opposite of "condemned".
You wrote that you were seeking Him very clearly...!
You never had your children running away from you, have you? Well, God always had.
Ok then. Again, it is your choice...
Raithere,
Matthew 14:24-32
"24 But the boat was already a long distance from the land, battered by the waves; for the wind was contrary.
25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea.
26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear.
27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid."
28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water."
29 And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
30 But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!"
31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?"
32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped."
Luke 8:49-56
"49 While He was still speaking, someone came from the house of the synagogue official, saying, "Your daughter has died; do not trouble the Teacher anymore."
50 But when Jesus heard this, He answered him, "Do not be afraid any longer; only believe, and she will be made well."
51 When He came to the house, He did not allow anyone to enter with Him, except Peter and John and James, and the girl's father and mother.
52 Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep."
53 And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.
54 He, however, took her by the hand and called, saying, "Child, arise!"
55 And her spirit returned, and she got up immediately; and He gave orders for something to be given her to eat.
56 Her parents were amazed; but He instructed them to tell no one what had happened. "
And also, this is what happens when you try to test God without believing...
Acts 19:11-16
"11 God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul,
12 so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out.
13 But also some of the Jewish exorcists, who went from place to place, attempted to name over those who had the evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, "I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches."
14 Seven sons of one Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said to them, "I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?"
16 And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. "
Their motives were wrong and they didn't really believe, so that's why that happened with them.
No I never said such thing. God protects you when your faith is not strong. But when you become strong in faith, He send you to work in His kingdom. Then their belief is strong and they don't fail. God never abandons anyone. Even if your faith is weak, He will help you and never abandon you.
Matthew 14:24-32
"24 But the boat was already a long distance from the land, battered by the waves; for the wind was contrary.
25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea.
26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear.
27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid."
28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water."
29 And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
30 But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!"
31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?"
32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped."
No. People that tests Him are people that don't believe in Him. Without the belief, it just doesn't work. You have first to believe, then it will happen. If you put Him to test, is because you don't believe, so it won't work. If you do for real and an unbeliever see this, then you will be able to impress the opinion to others. The motives here are very important.
Luke 8:49-56
"49 While He was still speaking, someone came from the house of the synagogue official, saying, "Your daughter has died; do not trouble the Teacher anymore."
50 But when Jesus heard this, He answered him, "Do not be afraid any longer; only believe, and she will be made well."
51 When He came to the house, He did not allow anyone to enter with Him, except Peter and John and James, and the girl's father and mother.
52 Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep."
53 And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.
54 He, however, took her by the hand and called, saying, "Child, arise!"
55 And her spirit returned, and she got up immediately; and He gave orders for something to be given her to eat.
56 Her parents were amazed; but He instructed them to tell no one what had happened. "
And also, this is what happens when you try to test God without believing...
Acts 19:11-16
"11 God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul,
12 so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out.
13 But also some of the Jewish exorcists, who went from place to place, attempted to name over those who had the evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, "I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches."
14 Seven sons of one Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said to them, "I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?"
16 And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. "
Their motives were wrong and they didn't really believe, so that's why that happened with them.