Are YOU Destined To Burn For Eternity?

[Photizo]

There are just too many versions of God throughout the world and perhaps countless ones across this incredibly vast universe for only one group of people to have claimed special privy to God.

Correction...No group of people has ever claimed special privy to YHWH. YHWH has claimed special privy to the Jewish people and has chosen to reveal Himself to the rest of humanity through them...in particular, through one Jew, Jesus Christ.

The versions of God concocted by humanity are the inevitable result of being crafted in God's Image...having been separated from Him, you now encounter in the various religions God in Man's Image...a marred image concocts a marred 'god'.

 

[nova900]

Correction...No group of people has ever claimed special privy to YHWH. YHWH has claimed special privy to the Jewish people and has chosen to reveal Himself to the rest of humanity through them..

Or so the Ancient Hebrews claim

History would seem to indicate otherwise.


http://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X

 

[SnakeLord]

I speak of facts, that which is provable.

Such as?

According to the original translation your are in error.

Not according to the translators who, no offence, have something to support their translations while you can't even get your English right. I don't mean this in an offensive manner, but if you're having difficulty with one of the most commonly used modern languages, why would I trust you when speaking of ancient ones?

So now, as you speak facts ( :bugeye: ) tell me what qualifications etc you have that shows your statements as more valid than the translators. Oh and no, "wiki" is not a qualification.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

"Indeed!"

Your mind is, however, shrouded in darkness according to the Objective Truth/Standard that is the Word of God:

This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

A fitting description for quite a few here in these august fora.

Repent, or remain shrouded in darkness for eternity.

Photizo, why then are you here?

You disobey your God in even being here! For your God teaches you that all that disagree with you are equivalent to "swine" and "dogs" (see below), should be killed, and should be tortured for all eternity.

Matthew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Further, your Bible teaches that no person can be saved unless they were expressly predestined by God to be saved. And there is absolutely nothing you or I or anyone else can do about it, even in the slightest. You cannot save anyone here unless they have been predestined to be saved from the foundation of the world. And even if they have been predestined to be saved, then all of the error you teach here will not prevent that from occurring either.

Your Bible teaches that God is absolutely sovereign over every single atom in the entire universe. Nothing can ever happen without His complete knowledge of it and without it being in His will. All of the evil that has ever happened has been within His sovereign will. If not, He would have stopped it.

So what is the point? Do you get some kind of sick pleasure from personally condemning others to hell.

Is that it? That is, at least, what it looks like sometimes.

 

[Adstar]

Photizo, why then are you here?

You disobey your God in even being here! For your God teaches you that all that disagree with you are equivalent to "swine" and "dogs" (see below), should be killed, and should be tortured for all eternity.

Matthew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Further, your Bible teaches that no person can be saved unless they were expressly predestined by God to be saved. And there is absolutely nothing you or I or anyone else can do about it, even in the slightest. You cannot save anyone here unless they have been predestined to be saved from the foundation of the world. And even if they have been predestined to be saved, then all of the error you teach here will not prevent that from occurring either.

Your Bible teaches that God is absolutely sovereign over every single atom in the entire universe. Nothing can ever happen without His complete knowledge of it and without it being in His will. All of the evil that has ever happened has been within His sovereign will. If not, He would have stopped it.

So what is the point? Do you get some kind of sick pleasure from personally condemning others to hell.

Is that it? That is, at least, what it looks like sometimes.

I am talking to a crowd, now in that crowd there are people who are listening intently to what is being said, they have not yet made up their minds and want to hear more. Then there are people in the crowd that Matthew 7:6 describes and they are swine that shout mockery and try their best to trample everything the messenger says into the ground.

Now do you stop speaking to the crowd and leave the ones still open to the love of the truth because of the spiritual swine who mock and seek to tear me to peaces? No. You stay out of love for those who are still listening. Yes the message is trampled by some and they scream and shout the loudest but one is not really giving the message to them. The message is going to the ones who are in the background and who are straining to hear the truth over the distortions and rants of the ones filled with hate.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Saquist]

Yes, to many I am in error, as the words written in the bible are for you as real as the book from which they emerge. You're free of course to provide any substantiated evidence that could demonstrate that claim.

I concur. I must exemply that statement. I look forward to it in the future. Much of the reason why I don't clog the threads with just half the informationi I have is for several reasons.

1) I require a receptive reader for I'm not about the waste my time.
2) I won't miss use work time to do so, thus before I come to work and the lunch period will have to surfice and currently it does not for giving all the research I have.
3)The DSL situation will have to resolved at home.

Or an atheist? Is there another alternative?

No, I don't believe so. (If you're refering to what I believe you're refering too.

That is true of many people who would agree with you. Their gods are as much a part of nature as they are. Many wouldn't agree with you however, as to which god is referred to that exists. That does of course present a problem of consistency between what you believe and they believe is scientific substantiation.

I have one standard of scientific Fact. Proof established by corrobative evidicence.

I've only ever observed of nature anything but design. I simply can't understand how anyone can conclude a design in the largely chaotic universe we live. Gamma Ray Bursts can wipe out dozens of worlds within its grasp in a single flash. We could be hit by one just as easily.

Sure you can. It's not as though it's impossible.

Actually much of the Ancient Hebrew medicine was derived from other cultures ..the Egyptians for one.Other Mesopotamian cultures and during the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities.
No doubt the Ancient Hebrews embellished many medical practices but they are not the original "authors" of many of them.

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/6309/1/Ancient-Hebrew-Medicine.html

Many other sources can be referenced.

Note the source is trying to be objective. This source correctly does not dictate that this research is necesarily true or well founded. Many sources like this are secondary even tertiary sources...at the most theorectical speculation of the cross polination of cultures that may explain the medical practices we observe.

I won't contradict him. His testimony appeared to be unbias and even-handed with no religious influence or scientific dogma implied. (As far as read)

However, you did not disagree and I don't disagree either. The Ancient Hebrew could have easily have been the true source of the polination to other cultures. We truely don't know. More is know about the Hebrew culture than most others because of the frank writing in the bible which catalogue defeat and victory, righteousness and error equally....

 

[Saquist]

Such as?



Not according to the translators who, no offence, have something to support their translations while you can't even get your English right. I don't mean this in an offensive manner, but if you're having difficulty with one of the most commonly used modern languages, why would I trust you when speaking of ancient ones?

So now, as you speak facts ( :bugeye: ) tell me what qualifications etc you have that shows your statements as more valid than the translators. Oh and no, "wiki" is not a qualification.

Do you use the Wiki...well it's non to be some what questionable on some issues. Notice how it's the first link on google when you type in your search. That's a payed feature by wiki to google for prominence. I would be weary if I were you.

 

[nova900]

However, you did not disagree and I don't disagree either. The Ancient Hebrew could have easily have been the true source of the polination to other cultures. We truely don't know. ....

Well, not if the other culture(s) in question predate the Ancient Hebrews...example...Sumerian,Egyptian.

 

[SnakeLord]

Do you use the Wiki...well it's non to be some what questionable on some issues. Notice how it's the first link on google when you type in your search. That's a payed feature by wiki to google for prominence. I would be weary if I were you.

Do notice that none of this answers the questions I asked of you, indeed it ignores them completely. Why is that?

 

[(Q)]

I concur. I must exemply that statement. I look forward to it in the future. Much of the reason why I don't clog the threads with just half the informationi I have is for several reasons.

1) I require a receptive reader for I'm not about the waste my time.
2) I won't miss use work time to do so, thus before I come to work and the lunch period will have to surfice and currently it does not for giving all the research I have.
3)The DSL situation will have to resolved at home.

Then, I do hope at some time in the near future, you resolve those issues. What is the issue with your DSL?

I have one standard of scientific Fact. Proof established by corrobative evidicence.

Therein lies the problem though, you're in competition over the other religions which also boast corroborative evidence as their proof. Perhaps you've read other threads by Muslims here who continually decree that science and most of our civilization wouldn't even exist as it is today if it were not for Islam. Not to mention the other religions with their claims of corroborative evidence as proof of their religions.

So, as you previously stated your concern about the bible hecklers is not even an issue compared with the other theists who would see your corroborative evidence as lies or fantasies, when compared with their corroborative evidence.

Surely, you must understand, recognize and acknowledge that as a problem when presenting your corroborative evidence?

Sure you can. It's not as though it's impossible.

At this time, I am only able to pursue such a path with little more than suspension of disbelief of corroborative evidence presented by religions. Of course, I just explained the problem with pursuing such a path.

Whose corroborative evidence does one believe?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

...Now do you stop speaking to the crowd and leave the ones still open to the love of the truth because of the spiritual swine who mock and seek to tear me to peaces? ...

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

The "Word of God" says "Do not", but you say do anyway.

 

[Saquist]

Well, not if the other culture(s) in question predate the Ancient Hebrews...example...Sumerian,Egyptian.

Hold on now nova900. Are you saying that just because writings predate the writings of another culture that it is an automatic contradiction.

One culture could have had acess to writing tools before another. Does this extablish fore knowledge of another?

Do notice that none of this answers the questions I asked of you, indeed it ignores them completely. Why is that?

You've been fairly creative with conjuring reason why everything I say is wrong surely you can do the same this time Snakelord. Asking questions is incredibly inconsistent of you.

Then, I do hope at some time in the near future, you resolve those issues. What is the issue with your DSL?

AT&T says that there maybe a problem with getting the signal in the home.
The DSL modem says I have a signal but will not give access to the internet through the Gateway and AT&T can not confirm that the DSL is making it to the House at all. Their sending a technican. This has been a very drawn out process. If I have to pay for some sort of repair work in the house I'll drop the contract and move to Warner. Next step is replace the modem.

Therein lies the problem though, you're in competition over the other religions which also boast corroborative evidence as their proof.

Negative: I can't agree here I am not in competition with other religions. There is no rivalry. I'm independent from their attitudes about religion. That's why I've learned not to directly oppose scientist for there need to contradict every religion indiscriminately. It's been predicated by religions bad past and contradictory present that they persist in.

Perhaps you've read other threads by Muslims here who continually decree that science and most of our civilization wouldn't even exist as it is today if it were not for Islam.

No. I did a cursory study of Islam. I know what I need to know. (so I don't know everything I.O.W)

Not to mention the other religions with their claims of corroborative evidence as proof of their religions.

Yes but are they completely with out contradiction? I've found that not to be true.

So, as you previously stated your concern about the bible hecklers is not even an issue compared with the other theists who would see your corroborative evidence as lies or fantasies, when compared with their corroborative evidence.

Remember Ice Age Civilizations? I didn't agree with him on a few things. One especially the six day creation, which the bible doesn't support. Some of these religions and SnakeLord pointed out that the way I see the Genesis account is contradictory to the bible.

However that is a preception that the Word day must always mean a twenty four hour period and nothing more than a twenty four hour period. The evidence that corraborates my view points allow us to see the word "day" as a metaphor for a "long period of time." Is that unfounded? No. I gave proof in the very same book in the bible where all the "days" thus were refered to as one day.

Here's the clencher. Atheist and Scientist will view that as an internal Bible Contradiction. Are they being to litteral? Perhaps. Language is rarely used so precisely any where but in science and Legislature where specifics are paramount and fought over. I think that we should understand to some degree that we're listening to a retelling of an event that happened long ago, maybe passed down to Moses and was finally put to writing.

Metaphors do not make contradictions is my point. Some times the contradictions between religions of similar faith is that there is a leaning on tradition and orthodoxy. Quite incredible for the major abrahamic religions theres are original copies to which we can return to with a fair amount of knowledge as to how to propperly translate them for optimum grammar and understanding. And that has happend. There are still many bibles out there that may allow for misunderstanding and there has been out right attempts to change the meanings...again thankfully we have the orignal copies to return to.

Surely, you must understand, recognize and acknowledge that as a problem when presenting your corroborative evidence?

99% of all paths are wrong. If there is one God there is one path.
One of the easist ways to eliminate alot of unnecessary searching if a comparison of practices and the elminating of contradiction.

At this time, I am only able to pursue such a path with little more than suspension of disbelief of corroborative evidence presented by religions. Of course, I just explained the problem with pursuing such a path.

And from your point of view I understand.

Whose corroborative evidence does one believe?

As per the statements above quite simply the choice is narrowed down by the elimination of hypocritical actions to teaching. That eliminates most of Christianity and all other religions that claim peace is the objective but cater to war. We must examine the morality behind the followers in other words.

 

[nova900]

Hold on now nova900. Are you saying that just because writings predate the writings of another culture that it is an automatic contradiction.

One culture could have had acess to writing tools before another. Does this extablish fore knowledge of another?

What I said was that if a culture predates the Ancient Hebrews culture there is no way the hebrews can be the "true source" as you mention.
In other words if A comes before B then B cannot come before A

You are letting your personal bias in favor of the ancient jews cloud your sense of reasoning and logic.

 

[Adstar]

The "Word of God" says "Do not", but you say do anyway.

God knows what i am doing. He will judge. His will be done.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Photizo, why then are you here?

You disobey your God in even being here! For your God teaches you that all that disagree with you are equivalent to "swine" and "dogs" (see below), should be killed, and should be tortured for all eternity.

Matthew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Further, your Bible teaches that no person can be saved unless they were expressly predestined by God to be saved. And there is absolutely nothing you or I or anyone else can do about it, even in the slightest. You cannot save anyone here unless they have been predestined to be saved from the foundation of the world. And even if they have been predestined to be saved, then all of the error you teach here will not prevent that from occurring either.

Your Bible teaches that God is absolutely sovereign over every single atom in the entire universe. Nothing can ever happen without His complete knowledge of it and without it being in His will. All of the evil that has ever happened has been within His sovereign will. If not, He would have stopped it.

So what is the point? Do you get some kind of sick pleasure from personally condemning others to hell.

Is that it? That is, at least, what it looks like sometimes.

*************
M*W: Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

God knows what i am doing. He will judge. His will be done.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

*************
M*W: But how do you know "his will" is being done?

 

[(Q)]

Negative: I can't agree here I am not in competition with other religions. There is no rivalry. I'm independent from their attitudes about religion. That's why I've learned not to directly oppose scientist for there need to contradict every religion indiscriminately. It's been predicated by religions bad past and contradictory present that they persist in.

I'm not saying you personally are in competition, but certainly your corroborative evidence IS in direct competition (and contradiction) with their corroborative evidence from a third party perspective. In other words, you would present yours and they theirs, which will most likely be contradictory. Of course, there remains the possibility that some things will be agreed upon, but for the most part will not.

And of course, it doesn't matter in the least that your independent from their attitudes about religion, that merely demonstrates that you don't agree with them, but does nothing to demonstrate whether you are right or wrong. They could very well be right and you entirely wrong.

No. I did a cursory study of Islam. I know what I need to know. (so I don't know everything I.O.W)

That does not preclude Muslims claims and only demonstrates you simply don't agree with them. Of course, Islam had absolutely nothing to do with science, but neither has the bible.

Yes but are they completely with out contradiction? I've found that not to be true.

Of course they're in contradiction, but so is the bible.

 

[Saquist]

What I said was that if a culture predates the Ancient Hebrews culture there is no way the hebrews can be the "true source" as you mention.
In other words if A comes before B then B cannot come before A

You are letting your personal bias in favor of the ancient jews cloud your sense of reasoning and logic.

Can you prove a true source, though. My point is. This is speculation. The Bible establishes a solid Hebrew origin. Predating alone does not extablish orignin.

 

[Saquist]

And of course, it doesn't matter in the least that your independent from their attitudes about religion, that merely demonstrates that you don't agree with them, but does nothing to demonstrate whether you are right or wrong. They could very well be right and you entirely wrong.

That does not preclude Muslims claims and only demonstrates you simply don't agree with them. Of course, Islam had absolutely nothing to do with science, but neither has the bible.

I can not agree. Does that mean Scientific could be wrong aswell.
I believe it does.

Truth is predicated on Facts. not belief.

Of course they're in contradiction, but so is the bible.

A scientific point of view of the bible can be just a predjudice as countering religious point of view. Facts correlate with truth in the propper pattern.

What you've saying is give up on everything, will never know for sure.
I don't agree. A well educated decision can be arrived at when well equipped with the right knowledge.

 

[(Q)]

I can not agree. Does that mean Scientific could be wrong aswell.
I believe it does.

Science is simply a method of understanding how things work. There is nothing wrong with the method, it does work. Therefore, it is technically incorrect to state science can be right or wrong.

Truth is predicated on Facts. not belief.

Most certainly, if something is verified in reality, it could be said to be fact. So, it remains to be seen as to how gods can be stated as fact when none have been verified in reality. Have you seen a god? Has anyone?

A scientific point of view of the bible can be just a predjudice as countering religious point of view. Facts correlate with truth in the propper pattern.

Or, more likely, yours is also a religious point of view. I won't argue the differences between what you deem as fact and what other religions deem as fact, since neither are verifiable, and contradict each other.

What you've saying is give up on everything, will never know for sure.
I don't agree. A well educated decision can be arrived at when well equipped with the right knowledge.

So, at this point, I should take the time to provide an analogy on your take of science.

Let's take the example of the dinosaurs. There are three competing theories as to what may have driven the dinosaurs to extinction; meteor/comet impact, viruses, and mammals eating their eggs. The theories are competing simply because all of them have merit but not enough evidence is available yet to distinguish one as verifiable.

With your interpretation of science, these competing theories would be separated throughout the world as are languages. For example, in North America, English is spoken, in South America, Spanish, and in India, Hindi.

So, in North America, everyone would believe in the meteor/comet impact theory, while everyone in South America believed in the virus theory and everyone in India believed in the mammals eating the dinosaurs eggs theory.

That, of course, is a very ridiculous system of science, wouldn't you agree?

Yet, you've committed to this form of science with your method of understanding and verification, just as those in the ME understand Islam and those in India, Sikhism.

Most likely then, if you were born in the ME or India, you wouldn't be here boasting the bible as scientific fact.